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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Additionally we definitely ski much lower angles much more frequently in CO than in UT - wide skis matter less when you have the pitch to get speed up for a narrower ski to float.
    +1

    I bought a pair of Voile Superchargers (106mm) when I was living in salt lake as a midwinter touring setup and they were awesome. Now living in CO they are still awesome but I would be happier on a fatter ski 90% of the time I tour on the superchargers. I would go Voile V8 (114mm) if I was buying a setup for CO today.

  2. #27
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    " Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Pin bindings. Light, but not ultralight. Salomon mtn, or comparable.

    Touring specific ski. Base the ski choice on the conditions you'll mostly tour for. Touring for pow? Get a pow ski with a tour layup. Mostly aiming for spring corn? Something narrower. A bit of everything? Get a ~105 width ski.

    Buy the boot that fits. Don't go too light if you want it to ski well. There are a number of boots in the 1300 - 1500 gram category that both walk and ski well. "



    more or less that ^^^ and definatley a boot that skis well like Maestrale/ Technica ZGTP/ Hoji



    "Thanks for the actual answer, toast. I've seen a lot of pros on the 'Tubes using regular skis for their touring adventures - like Cody and Nikolai Schirmer. What's the reason to still go with full tour layup? "


    Cuz its lighter, Pro's are gona be out there 100+ days a season but I don't think they tour heavy all the time, I ran into 5 Salomon pro's with the camera crew, they were on 5 sets of identical salomon touring skis and pins so I asked " you gona huck on those ? " and buddy said " we're just scouting today we have other skis for filming "
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Outlier yes, extreme no. Most of the people I tour with regularly are skiing midwinter on 110mm+, all of us have been touring for well over 10 years. More than a few use 120mm+ regularly.
    It's worth noting that none of us are the "get as many laps in a day" types. My day to day life is busy enough, I go touring to slow down, relax, enjoy the mountains and time with friends, and get some great skiing in too. I don't live/work close enough to the mountains to dawn patrol so I'm rarely constrained by time. If I cared about getting that extra lap, I'd ski lighter/narrower stuff. Additionally we definitely ski much lower angles much more frequently in CO than in UT - wide skis matter less when you have the pitch to get speed up for a narrower ski to float.
    I'd also guess adrenalated's 128-width skis are Protests, which are narrower at the tip/tail than the waist width suggests.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Backcountry socks too
    Good Catch. I posted on that thread
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    I'd also guess adrenalated's 128-width skis are Protests, which are narrower at the tip/tail than the waist width suggests.
    That's also correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Outlier yes, extreme no. Most of the people I tour with regularly are skiing midwinter on 110mm+, all of us have been touring for well over 10 years. More than a few use 120mm+ regularly.
    It's worth noting that none of us are the "get as many laps in a day" types. My day to day life is busy enough, I go touring to slow down, relax, enjoy the mountains and time with friends, and get some great skiing in too. I don't live/work close enough to the mountains to dawn patrol so I'm rarely constrained by time. If I cared about getting that extra lap, I'd ski lighter/narrower stuff. Additionally we definitely ski much lower angles much more frequently in CO than in UT - wide skis matter less when you have the pitch to get speed up for a narrower ski to float.
    Very fair points, all of them. And as to the points of not taking the advice of someone you don't ski with, I also agree.

    You're almost certainly right about wider skis making sense in Colorado too - I've toured in Colorado, but I haven't spent a winter where all of my touring was in Colorado. Fatter powder skis plane easier at low speeds, and they're more fun. You very well may need something wider than 105 underfoot for your snowpack; see what your friends are skiing and go from there. I was just pushing back against the idea that you needed some big old heavy, fat touring setup. Whatever your underfoot category is, I'd try to go as light as possible within that category, personally.

  7. #32
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    Get something cheap that is similar to what your partners use and try it. Then you'll have a better sense of what you like and can go buy yourself something nice that you can use for years.

    For reference I ski about 50-60 days a year (lots of short tours before work) and 35-45 will be touring. I'm 5'10 170. I mostly ski on ultralight bindings with light boots and light, but-not-too-light skis, but I have some Zero G 85's for long-ass spring days when less weight and width can save me a lot of energy. If I'm skiing in spring or summer and likely to see some suncups or sloppy snow on a long exit, I know I'll have more fun on Zero G 108' which have better suspension and don't get bogged down in slush or spring pow.

    On the other end of the spectrum I have some 188 Rustler 11's with Shifts that I tour on with some beefier boots. Heavy as fuck, but no compromise going down hill. If you do any lift assisted touring, ultralight gear provides little benefit but has massive drawbacks in shitty inconsistent snow. But would I want to take that setup on a 15 mile spring mission? Hell no.

    And if you're dealing with persistent weak layers and need to stick to sub 30 degree slopes, fat skis (like adrenalated's) are much faster and more fun than skinny skis. But if you live in a place where you get to ski steep, stable powder regularly, anything over 110mm is probably overkill.

    There isn't one way to do it right. And you won't know what your way is until you've done it for at least 10-20 days. I will say that I've talked to more than a few folks who've had a tough time transitioning straight from burly inbounds setups to minimalist touring setups. The feel is hard to trust, and a 1000g touring boot, especially, requires you to stay more centered/balanced over your skis.

    But yes, you can haul ass on a light weight setup if the snow is pretty good and you are a good skier. And if you're fairly fit, moving uphill unencumbered by heavy gear is a wonderful feeling. I like it almost as much as skiing powder or perfect corn.

    In conclusion, get something cheap that is similar to what your partners use and try it. Then you'll have a better sense of what you like and can go buy yourself something nice that you can use for years.

  8. #33
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    Building a Touring Setup - I have no idea what I'm doing

    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    I always wonder if people with super-light gear are very good skiers who can get away with their gear because they are more than anything well-balanced on their skis, and athletes, or are they skiing so slow that super-light gear is fine because they make the same small pendulum turn over and over for 5000'? 99 percent of time it's the later, no judgement, but I wouldn't take any advice from someone you haven't skied with. Hopefully though we point you in a solid direction.
    This is true. You see plenty of people around here on super light gear that can't ski very well.

    Personally, I normally tour on ~1900-2000 gram skis as I'm not a fan of how super light skis handle bad snow. I'm also used to skiing heavy skis with p18s in the resort.

    Tell us what your quiver consists of and your ski preferences and then we can recommend a ski. I like a ~105ish touring ski but I don't do a ton of big days. I would like to add a ~90 underfoot light ski to the quiver though to have the option.
    EDIT: missed your post telling us. I think you are on the right track for skis to look at.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jvhowube View Post
    I ski Moment Wildcat 184 and Black Crows Camox 181 in-bounds. I like skis on the more playful end of the spectrum (I like getting airborne), and skis with progressive mount/feel.

    I've been looking at the Kore 105, Wildcat 108 Tour, Bentchetler 100, Black Crows Atris as potential skis for the touring setup...
    I think you'd be pretty happy with any of those skis, paired with a light pin binding (Sally Mtn, ATK Raider, etc.), and a good boot. The more your tours are inclined towards pow, the happier you'd be with something a bit wider than those options.

    For whatever it's worth, I also ski the Wildcat (Bibby) 184 as my soft snow inbounds ski. I tour on a 184 Deathwish Tour w/ Sally Mtn's and Technica Zero G boot. I'm pretty happy with the Deathwish Tour - sufficiently floaty and smeary in pow, which is mostly what I'm after when I'm touring, but it doesn't feel completely dumb on firmer snow. My touring setup doesn't see inbounds use unless I'm bumping lifts to access sidecountry tours.

  10. #35
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    Great advice from @mall walker, @tgapp, @adrenalated, and @I've seen black diamonds!

    The only thing I'd emphasize (and talk to your guide buddy about this) is that low angle meadow skipping is actually fun with a powder specific (115mm or wider) ski. You could almost view it as a safety item, because it will reduce the temptation to ski steeper lines during the Winter in our scary Colorado snowpack.

    I'm definitely moving more and more toward biasing my weight savings toward my bindings first and skis second. Dropping 400g per foot by going from Vipecs to Helio 200s was a revelation.

    Agree that a transition to a super light boot might be too dramatic of a step ... even if you end up there eventually. The safe bet is the Zero-G / Hawx class of boot (sez the guy who is looking to make a shift to F1s).

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    I think you'd be pretty happy with any of those skis, paired with a light pin binding (Sally Mtn, ATK Raider, etc.), and a good boot. The more your tours are inclined towards pow, the happier you'd be with something a bit wider than those options.

    For whatever it's worth, I also ski the Wildcat (Bibby) 184 as my soft snow inbounds ski. I tour on a 184 Deathwish Tour w/ Sally Mtn's and Technica Zero G boot. I'm pretty happy with the Deathwish Tour - sufficiently floaty and smeary in pow, which is mostly what I'm after when I'm touring, but it doesn't feel completely dumb on firmer snow. My touring setup doesn't see inbounds use unless I'm bumping lifts to access sidecountry tours.
    The Deathwish Tour does seem like a good option - in the sweet spot size-wise. The non-boutique skis might be easier to find a deal on... but man do I love my Moments. Good to know my ski choice was at least in the right ballpark. The binding and boot talk has helped a lot though. Thanks for all the replies! I'll be trying on boots this weekend and talking to my buddies about what they ski.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    This is true. You see plenty of people around here on super light gear that can't ski very well. .
    I was trying to avoid saying that. Pendulum-style small radius turns doesn't necessarily mean a bad skier, just a skier who doesn't need heavy stiff gear. And the gear may dictate you making Pendulum-style small radius turns: chicken or egg question, now I think about it...

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    a transition to a super light boot might be too dramatic of a step ... even if you end up there eventually.
    Well put, especially the 'end up there' comment.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jvhowube View Post
    I ski Moment Wildcat 184 and Black Crows Camox 181 in-bounds. I like skis on the more playful end of the spectrum (I like getting airborne), and skis with progressive mount/feel.

    I've been looking at the Kore 105, Wildcat 108 Tour, Bentchetler 100, Black Crows Atris as potential skis for the touring setup...
    Wildcat 108 Tour with Tectons has been awesome for me. Pair with some ~1500g boots and youíve got a semi-light setup that really rips.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jvhowube View Post
    The Deathwish Tour does seem like a good option - in the sweet spot size-wise.
    Yeah, that's my conclusion. I've had various ~105 waist touring skis and generally wished they were a little wider, since if I'm bothering to walk uphill, it usually means there's pow to be found. I also found some of the lighter options to be a bit too skittery in non-perfect snow. I had some bibby tours that I liked, but they were a struggle at times on firm skin tracks. So far, the Deathwish tour hits the right middle ground, at least for me.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    I was trying to avoid saying that. Pendulum-style small radius turns doesn't necessarily mean a bad skier, just a skier who doesn't need heavy stiff gear. And the gear may dictate you making Pendulum-style small radius turns: chicken or egg question, now I think about it...
    I think you're right. I can and do open it up a lot more on my ~1650g Wootests than on my ~1250g other stuff, I just usually accept the tradeoff in order to go (up) faster. For me to ski my very light skis fast/hard I need pretty consistent conditions, right-side-up pow or corn basically. In fairness, we do have those conditions here often... but certainly not always. snowaddict91 knows how slow I am in the bad conditions I always seem to drag him up in lol.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    This is true. You see plenty of people around here on super light gear that can't ski very well .
    I like the more tongue the Booster strap, all the extra mods to make the the light boot ski not light ... why not just get a stronger boot ?

    IME skiing a super light ski with a strong boot ain't so bad cuz you can just boss it around,

    its not like trying to ski a Light boot with a big ski ... recovering telemarker here
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #42
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    I guess I'll add my thought on brakes:

    All they add is weight and problems UNLESS you're going to be taking your skis on and off a bunch, then leashes become a huge pain.

    For example, most of the winter in CO I ski brakeless, but when I ski in Italy I might end up doing multiple gondola and tram rides to get where I want to ski, and then crossing multiple roads on an exit. Leashes suck there. Too much clipping and unclipping. For spring/summer ski mountaineering anywhere there will be times you end up taking your skis on and off a bunch going up and down hill. Brakes are the winner there as well. Bindings that allow for easy brake removal are nice if you want to run them both ways.

    Of course skimo folks skip brakes and leashes altogether, but that's always been a bridge to far for me.

  18. #43
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    To me it all boils down to one big decision: what kind of skiing do you want to to in the BC? You have to balance out your desire to ski a certain way with the reality of getting the required setup to the top of the run and down it. No matter how good the gear is getting there will always be a compromise between going light and skiing hard. There's a point when continuing to shed weight yields diminishing returns and it's different for everyone.

    Personally I'm willing to live with the weight penalty of a 4-buckle boot and a bigger damper ski because the type of skiing I want to do is not manageable on a carbon toothpick & slipper combo. Sure, I could be faster if I decided to drop a weight class. I could probably do more laps and more vert. I could shrink my transition time. But I'd have to tone down the way I ski and I'm not willing to consider that. I've lightened up my setup as much as I could without compromising ride quality and anything past that would make things less fun. I will probably reconsider this as I get older and ski less aggressively but for now my rule is to take the big setup out and my exception is the skinny light rig. Every time I've taken it out I have wished for something beefier.

  19. #44
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    I've got an ideal setup for sale at a SLC consignment shop I could probably grab and sell to you if interested...186 voile V8 with speed radicals (brakeless) and bd glidelight skins. Great relatively lightweight pow setup. Thinking $450ish shipped?

    Sent from my SM-N970U using TGR Forums mobile app

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    I think you're right. I can and do open it up a lot more on my ~1650g Wootests than on my ~1250g other stuff, I just usually accept the tradeoff in order to go (up) faster. For me to ski my very light skis fast/hard I need pretty consistent conditions, right-side-up pow or corn basically. In fairness, we do have those conditions here often... but certainly not always. snowaddict91 knows how slow I am in the bad conditions I always seem to drag him up in lol.
    Muted said it better than I did. You know how to use your gear and its limits whereas I see people struggling trying to boss their carbon toothpicks around flailing all over the place.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    Muted said it better than I did. You know how to use your gear and its limits whereas I see people struggling trying to boss their carbon toothpicks around flailing all over the place.
    Having seen MW ski little skis in bad conditions (hint: the Y last year) I'd have to agree. There's a difference between skiing a setup as it's meant to be skied even if it requires toning things down vs attempting to man-handle shit that doesn't want to cooperate. Usually option #1 looks mellow and controlled and option #2 ends with the rider on their back after the skis decide to fight back.

    Edit: don't want to praise him too much though, he may start taking himself seriously. In reality he's a humongous beater who doesn't even own googles and has to wait on top of ski runs for enough daylight to ski them

  22. #47
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    Go used route. Lots of good stuff on rocky mtn/denver/boulder CL, swap board here, and prob SB used shop. With no patrol, grooming, etc you're going to hit stuff and bang stuff up. Plus, lets you see what you like, and if you don't like em, you can usually flip em for about what you paid.
    And FWIW, I've settled on one 105ish flat/rockered winter ski and a 90ish spring/summer cambered ski. Interesting terrain rarely safe till well into the spring, and then don't need a ton of width/float

  23. #48
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    Look for a used ski/skin/bindings setup, no tax for 1/3 of list price

    those V8's ^^ above if you are 180 +
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    Edit: don't want to praise him too much though, he may start taking himself seriously. In reality he's a humongous beater who doesn't even own googles and has to wait on top of ski runs for enough daylight to ski them
    hey now I canít afford goggles, spent my wad on the skinny skis!!

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    hey now I can’t afford goggles, spent my wad on the skinny skis!!
    Just admit that it's because they don't make any carbon fiber super lightweight skimo AF goggles
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

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