It's too crowded, no one goes there anymore

[Benny Profane]

Same chair, a little later in the day.

Holy shit

[wkndwarrior]

Is that photoshopped? There is no way in hell I would ever wait in that line even if it was the deepest, lightest day ever.

Not my pic, but the guy who sent it swears that two of his buddies confirmed it. We set the under/over at 2 hours.

[Bunion 2020]

Is that photoshopped? There is no way in hell I would ever wait in that line even if it was the deepest, lightest day ever.

How about if that is the only way out? Walk?

[Truckee Joe]

Seems to me most people are skiing more, especially the locals. “Working remote” or as I like to call it not working at all, and instagramming everywhere they are. So if any of you fit into this category then your part of the problem.
Know where you can’t find crowds? At home. Too many people everywhere I go, roads, lift lines, stores. I know I live in CA where this an amplified problem but I travel, yes because of ikon and epic, and the experience is much better if you just have a beer while waiting and don’t bitch about others and take whatever nature gives you that day. So what you only get 10 instead of 12 runs. Life is better because of those 10 runs, just get over yourself. The mountain is for everyone, I can guarantee you don’t own the place so stop acting like you do.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

How about if that is the only way out? Walk?

If it was the only option, I guess. I probably wouldn’t be there if it was that crowded though. I’ll leave my local hill on big days if the wait is more than 20 minutes. I can usually plan around that though.

[SkiBall]

Not my pic, but the guy who sent it swears that two of his buddies confirmed it. We set the under/over at 2 hours.

Reports I heard ranged 90-110 minutes. And yeah, only way out.

They didn't open up a lot of the mountain after this storm yet, so same amount of skiers in a smaller area. It was a decent busy day but nothing really out of the ordinary. Only heard one bomb yesterday morn when I was expecting about 20.

[Buster Highmen]

Are resorts still claiming that user days are flat?

[goldenboy]

If it was the only option, I guess. I probably wouldn’t be there if it was that crowded though. I’ll leave my local hill on big days if the wait is more than 20 minutes. I can usually plan around that though.

It's Vail, it's a powder day, of course you're going to ski the back bowls. No way out once you see that line. I remember doing that once back when it was a slow triple, it was over 2 hours for the lap.

[skysos]

Be careful what you wish for. The new North Face lift is totally gonna change that face. I’m already missing what’s there now.

I wasn't actually aware they were going to replace the T-bar. When we were there last year it was down with mechanical issues half the time. I used to just hike up to Hawk's Nest before the Poma and that was just fine, but if there's a lift there it has to work because it doesn't look like they allow hiking when it's closed.

[MakersTeleMark]

One wonders if half of those people would have been at Abasin if they were still Epic.

EB was closed. Chair 5 used to be that on the reg. I laugh at people who dip into that no man's land on a busy weekend. Say goodbye to your day.

[123ski]

Part of the problem is that skiing has become too affordable due to multi resort passes.

In 1999 a season pass to snowbird was $1100. In today’s dollars that is $1,800.

Alterra has been approaching resorts with idle threats of bankruptcy if the resort doesn’t either join them or epic.

Some resorts don’t have the ability to differentiate on experience alone, and for those resorts it would be wise to join alterra.

Other resorts, like snowbird, Alta, jackson, etc should be smarter. Their terrain is enough to differentiate. Adding a “lack of crowds” could be another. All they need to do is adjust their pass price to match inflation. An $1,800 pass paid in $150 monthly increments is not unreasonable for anyone that values steep terrain and deep snow. If you don’t, pay $750 for your ikon pass and enjoy the low angle terrain, inferior snow quality, and lift lines.


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[raisingarizona13]

Well now that everyone knows what it's like at these places during the "epic" storm cycles it's not like you have to sign up for it and participate.

There's still plenty of smaller independently owned ski areas out there that have fun enough terrain.

And let's be honest, out of all the people on that massive morning line up at the Village how many really need to be skiing Jackson when their ability levels would probably be better served at a place like Snowmass or Monarch? How many of em are completely toast after two or three runs skiing the Village? I know the pull of the water cooler bragging rights is strong but they most of us don't need to put ourselves through such shit shows.

[Angle Parking]

Lots of these big lineup pics floating around social media these days. You have to feel bad for people who live in non skiing locals who dream of their annual trip to the mountains and end up getting stuck ink lift line hell.

[MakersTeleMark]

Lots of these big lineup pics floating around social media these days.

Exactly. It's a self-selecting group.

[skiracer88_00]

Be careful what you wish for. The new North Face lift is totally gonna change that face. I’m already missing what’s there now.

Naa,

There are still a limited number of skiers that can ski that terrain. I thought the HSQ would ruin Chair 1 at Loveland. All it does is put more people on spillway. No one skis the steeps.

[Core Shot]

Could you see that line from the top before you drop in?

That would suck to make a dozen turns and then look up and realize you will be stuck for hours.

[MakersTeleMark]

Could you see that line from the top before you drop in?

That would suck to make a dozen turns and then look up and realize you will be stuck for hours.

Not even close. It's like a mile away.

[123ski]

I also just have a fundamental problem with Ikon.

Theoretically, the business reasons behind Vail’s launch of Epic was as follows (some has changed now that Ikon exists):

1) buy both local and “destination” resorts across the country
2) sell a common pass at different price points to skiers at those mountains under common ownership.
3) give unlimited access at the “home” resort with additional LIMITED “destination” and unlimited “local” access to the other common owned resorts.
4) own as many hotels, restaurants, and retail stores at the resorts in “destination” areas as possible
5) convince the skiers in the middle of the country to “ski for free” at the destination resorts. Profit from their hotel stays, food purchase and retail purchase.


This doesn’t quite work for Ikon, especially in Utah.

Alterra owns Deer Valley and Solitude. Alterra owns a few of the lodges at Deer Valley and Solitude. Alterra doesn’t own Brighton, Alta, or Snowbird.

Ikon has sold extremely well in Colorado, Utah, and California. On busy powder weekends skiers FLOCK to snowbird from these 3 states to use their Ikon passes. The problem? Of course snowbird gets a flat cut of ikon sales, but the Snowbird does not have very much lodging. What does this mean? Skiers are coming in to town to ski at snowbird, but are staying at Airbnbs in Cottonwood Heights - so snowbird isn’t earning any incremental revenue from hotel stays and are earning limited revenue from food and beverage (1 meal only). The ikon skier coming to Utah isn’t the typical high spender that pays for lodging, food, beverage, retail, lessons, and child care.

It makes very little sense to me that snowbird would want the Ikon skier


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[ncskier]

Are resorts still claiming that user days are flat?

That’s exactly what I’m wondering.
Not to mention for all the talk of the aging of the sport, I highly doubt that line is a bunch of retired 70 year olds.
Also were people simply pissing in line, with no facilities around that’s a brutal wait. I guess I’ll pack skins inbounds now, because I’d rather skin up then wait in that line


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[ncskier]

I also just have a fundamental problem with Ikon.

Theoretically, the business reasons behind Vail’s launch of Epic was as follows (some has changed now that Ikon exists):

1) buy both local and “destination” resorts across the country
2) sell a common pass at different price points to skiers at those mountains under common ownership.
3) give unlimited access at the “home” resort with additional LIMITED “destination” and unlimited “local” access to the other common owned resorts.
4) own as many hotels, restaurants, and retail stores at the resorts in “destination” areas as possible
5) convince the skiers in the middle of the country to “ski for free” at the destination resorts. Profit from their hotel stays, food purchase and retail purchase.


This doesn’t quite work for Ikon, especially in Utah.

Alterra owns Deer Valley and Solitude. Alterra owns a few of the lodges at Deer Valley and Solitude. Alterra doesn’t own Brighton, Alta, or Snowbird.

Ikon has sold extremely well in Colorado, Utah, and California. On busy powder weekends skiers FLOCK to snowbird from these 3 states to use their Ikon passes. The problem? Of course snowbird gets a flat cut of ikon sales, but the Snowbird does not have very much lodging. What does this mean? Skiers are coming in to town to ski at snowbird, but are staying at Airbnbs in Cottonwood Heights - so snowbird isn’t earning any incremental revenue from hotel stays and are earning limited revenue from food and beverage (1 meal only). The ikon skier coming to Utah isn’t the typical high spender that pays for lodging, food, beverage, retail, lessons, and child care.

It makes very little sense to me that snowbird would want the Ikon skier


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Not entirely true, with limited lodging, snowbird has more price elasticity to charge higher and higher rates for what they have. Rates at their owned properties have been much higher than in years past. Not to mention they charge higher rents to other vendors as well. Same could be said for alts. Earlier someone bitches about no availability of rooms around big sky, so in a sense the rising tide is lifting all ships.
Also no one should discount the roaring economy. Rising wages and stock values have people spending everywhere.


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[123ski]

Not entirely true, with limited lodging, snowbird has more price elasticity to charge higher and higher rates for what they have. Rates at their owned properties have been much higher than in years past. Not to mention they charge higher rents to other vendors as well. Same could be said for alts. Earlier someone bitches about no availability of rooms around big sky, so in a sense the rising tide is lifting all ships.
Also no one should discount the roaring economy. Rising wages and stock values have people spending everywhere.


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The thing you are missing though is that alta and snowbird are only 20 minutes from some cheap and amazing Airbnb properties in a 1M+ metropolitan area. Their elasticity is more limited than somewhere like Big Sky



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[123ski]

The thing you are missing though is that alta and snowbird are only 20 minutes from some cheap and amazing Airbnb properties in a 1M+ metropolitan area. Their elasticity is more limited than somewhere like Big Sky



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I guess my point is. snowbird COULD theoretically limit Ikon pass redemption to skiers that are paying for lodging at the resort. Now snowbird actually gets incremental revenue from those skiers instead of just an influx of cheap asses


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[SkiBall]

That’s exactly what I’m wondering.
Not to mention for all the talk of the aging of the sport, I highly doubt that line is a bunch of retired 70 year olds.
Also were people simply pissing in line, with no facilities around that’s a brutal wait. I guess I’ll pack skins inbounds now, because I’d rather skin up then wait in that line


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Yep, you could skin right up Forever, so named cuz that's how long it took OG's to get back up out of there.
Ok, so they probably didn't have skins.

[m2711c]

Oh for fucks sake, just ski somewhere else. There is a half dozen ski areas with this over crowding problem. And only on certain days. Don’t ski there then. It’s that simple.

both bolton and jay got 17 inches in this last storm. jay was a shit show on saturday with both the tram and the flyer down... bolton was empty. which do you hit?

[The SnowShow]

After the two day LCC closure, was the tram line down to Sandy?