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  1. #26
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    MC wasn’t that bad. Every additional day was paid out of pocket by the skier.
    Ikon is a bit different in that each skier has free days. Marginal cost is zero, so why not head to Jackson for free skiing on the greatest mountain in North America.

    I wonder what they will do after three years.
    My guess is the money is too good to quit.
    Even if ikon reimbursement is small, the marginal expense is zero, so as long as they aren’t losing season ticket sales, they keep on whoring the mountain
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.”
    Hunter S. Thompson

  2. #27
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Will there be PowerPoint slides?
    There can be - I’ll put them on slide share


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  3. #28
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    Sep 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski View Post
    There can be - I’ll put them on slide share
    Figures.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  4. #29
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Maybe Powder Mountain has the right idea with limited internet sales. But, that place has become sort of a hybrid club of sorts with the profit motive low on the priority list.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    709
    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    MC wasn’t that bad. Every additional day was paid out of pocket by the skier.
    Ikon is a bit different in that each skier has free days. Marginal cost is zero, so why not head to Jackson for free skiing on the greatest mountain in North America.

    I wonder what they will do after three years.
    My guess is the money is too good to quit.
    Even if ikon reimbursement is small, the marginal expense is zero, so as long as they aren’t losing season ticket sales, they keep on whoring the mountain
    If Jackson was on Epic I would have visited this year. It just makes everything so much more affordable if you have the passes paid for already

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    129
    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    Are the powder day lines due to too many skiers over all, or the fact more people can ski powder on modern equipment? I am not convinced Ikon/Epic have increased skier days all that much. It hasn't change the number of days I and most of the people I know ski. The vast majority of my ski days are at Mammoth (with or without Ikon) and touring. I typically get in one or two trips to other hills, same as I did before Ikon. True Ikon makes those trips more affordable, but as Ikon has eased over all costs, resort day tickets have become obscene forcing people to buy Ikon or Epic passes.
    I have to think a decent factor in powder day crowding is the increased accuracy and availability of weather data where more people can position themselves at areas for a big powder day. Add in no incremental lift ticket cost from mega passes and relatively inexpensive airfare, more people do this.

  7. #32
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    And AirBnB

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  8. #33
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    Oct 2016
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    129
    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski View Post
    A few thoughts.

    Capacity planning is a dominant issue for most of these resorts, and moving to multi resort pricing has shown that these resorts are prioritizing cash flow predictability over user experience (and maybe even profits).

    You see, all hospitality-operations strategies must answer the same questions, which I can dive into later, but the ultimate problem is this:

    Demand for services must be met as it arises because it cannot be inventoried.

    Demand variability creates alternating periods of idle workers and idle facilities vs customer wait times.

    Therefore, management must trade off the cost of idle resources vs the potential cost of customer dissatisfaction due to long wait times and overcrowding.

    So the real questions that we should be asking are as follows. Once we know these answers we can begin solving the problem. I believe I know the answers to these and have several solutions, but I’d like to discuss these first:

    1) Have the resorts prioritized maximum capacity over customer satisfaction?

    2) have the resorts prioritized consistency and predictability of cash flows over customer satisfaction?

    3) is customer satisfaction directly correlated with wait times in the ski industry?

    4) what else is customer satisfaction highly correlated with?

    5) can management control some aspects of supply and demand? If so, which ones?

    6) what is the optimal combination of supply and demand-management strategies that provide for maximum capacity at a ski resort, while operating within a specified acceptable level of wait times and crowding for customers?


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    I wonder if some sort of prioritization and reservation scheme comes into play. So if you're a Jackson Hole local and buy the JH pass, you're able to ski whenever. But some lesser pass - either because its not a JH local pass (your local hill is, say, Stratton), or its a less expensive JH version - you have to make a reservation in order to ski. Limited number of slots, advance booking required, fee charged if not used. If you live in Jackson and get boxed out, go to Grand Targhee. If you're coming in from NYC, you have to plan ahead. If you want to chase powder last minute, you might be forced to ski at a lesser traveled mega pass resort or, god forbid, go independent. Just a thought....

  9. #34
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Yup

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  10. #35
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    Jan 2010
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    your vacation
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    quality skiing peaked in the 90's

    used to hike 20 mins or more to good terrian, now theirs a lift
    equipment is 10x better than it used to be so people with shitty fitness can keep up

  11. #36
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    Jan 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud View Post
    . The people who all ski 5-10 days per year almost always go at the same time.

    Guess what, it was 70F in Denver last week, everyone stayed in the Front Range. Now it's a super gnar sick storm weekend and everyone MUST go skiing!
    this explains colorado to a tee
    no one was here last weekend, quiet, sure the conditions weren't the best, but people who really ski, ski shit snow, have fun after a couple runs and go home and be happy
    posers gaper dip shits have all these excuses why they can't ski unless the conditions are "perfect" then they flail around in deep snow wait in epic lines
    people are now willing to drive 3 hrs each way because it snowed in denver and it dumped in the mountains
    Monday will be money up here

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Whistler
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    The "fuck load" of demand at most resorts is only xmas, presidents holidays, and a few other weekends. Most hills are quiet 300+ days a year, complete ghost town a lot of that too.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nortonwhis View Post
    If Jackson was on Epic I would have visited this year. It just makes everything so much more affordable if you have the passes paid for already
    Except that epic is all the same owner.
    Vail was smart to buy the two shitty bumps in Wisconsin so that they had a captive audience for their western vacation clientele

    Ikon is different in that they are ruining the independent mountains.
    MC was not as bad. Ikon is a game changer
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.”
    Hunter S. Thompson

  14. #39
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin267 View Post
    The "fuck load" of demand at most resorts is only xmas, presidents holidays, and a few other weekends. Most hills are quiet 300+ days a year, complete ghost town a lot of that too.


    You must ski in Vermont at some secondary shit hill.

    Did you see the lift line at Vail on....Thursday?

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  15. #40
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    Sep 2006
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    Utah
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    Quote Originally Posted by slatham View Post
    I wonder if some sort of prioritization and reservation scheme comes into play. So if you're a Jackson Hole local and buy the JH pass, you're able to ski whenever. But some lesser pass - either because its not a JH local pass (your local hill is, say, Stratton), or its a less expensive JH version - you have to make a reservation in order to ski. Limited number of slots, advance booking required, fee charged if not used. If you live in Jackson and get boxed out, go to Grand Targhee. If you're coming in from NYC, you have to plan ahead. If you want to chase powder last minute, you might be forced to ski at a lesser traveled mega pass resort or, god forbid, go independent. Just a thought....
    This is something I’ve been kicking around as well. Would help push SOME multi-resort weekend traffic to midweek - which is exactly the load balancing the resorts want. Might also be interesting if your multi resort pass had more blackouts on weekends for sister resorts, making it really only feasible to use them on weekends and some limited weekends


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  16. #41
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    Mar 2005
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    Interesting. JH used to have the weekday warrior pass.
    I knew many folks that did other shit on the weekend and saved money on the pass.
    Maybe ikon should consider this?
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.”
    Hunter S. Thompson

  17. #42
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    Oct 2003
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    slc
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin267 View Post
    Most hills are quiet 300+ days a year
    There's definitely a lot fewer people skiing in summer.

  18. #43
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    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    There's definitely a lot fewer people skiing in summer.
    Shook my head at that too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  19. #44
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    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    There's definitely a lot fewer people skiing in summer.
    2020 is the year of skiers cluttering up the bike trails. I blame Ikon.

  20. #45
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by slatham View Post
    I wonder if some sort of prioritization and reservation scheme comes into play. So if you're a Jackson Hole local and buy the JH pass, you're able to ski whenever. But some lesser pass - either because its not a JH local pass (your local hill is, say, Stratton), or its a less expensive JH version - you have to make a reservation in order to ski. Limited number of slots, advance booking required, fee charged if not used. If you live in Jackson and get boxed out, go to Grand Targhee. If you're coming in from NYC, you have to plan ahead. If you want to chase powder last minute, you might be forced to ski at a lesser traveled mega pass resort or, god forbid, go independent. Just a thought....
    The sense of entitlement in this thread and especially in this post is breathtaking. "I want to keep away all those other people who don't deserve it, so I and my bros who do deserve it--because we're 'local', or because we understand the soul of skiing, or because we're so core--can ski fresh pow all day without anyone in our way. I want the cost of skiing to be low enough so that I can afford it but expensive enough that no one who has less money can afford it." Got it.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by grrrmountainman View Post
    Ski mid week. It’s a beautiful thing. Can’t? Make it so you can live in a town that allows that.
    This. Even Whistler is a ghost town Mon-Thu (as long as there hasn't been 50cm of cement delivered straight from Hawaii into the alpine, in which case the place is a gong show).

    Bitching about resort crowds is like complaining about traffic. You're just as much of the "problem" as anyone else. Don't like it? Change your scheduling obligations up. Don't want to make the sacrifice of a smaller family/house, lower income, or whatever? Fine, but don't complain about it.

  22. #47
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    Aug 2008
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    Where the climate suits my clothes.
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  23. #48
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    Dec 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The sense of entitlement in this thread and especially in this post is breathtaking. "I want to keep away all those other people who don't deserve it, so I and my bros who do deserve it--because we're 'local', or because we understand the soul of skiing, or because we're so core--can ski fresh pow all day without anyone in our way. I want the cost of skiing to be low enough so that I can afford it but expensive enough that no one who has less money can afford it." Got it.
    No.

    I do think the areas should put limits on the numbers. If their system is obviously overloading and the quality of the experience is diminished, how is that a good thing?
    Ooof!

  24. #49
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    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    No.

    I do think the areas should put limits on the numbers. If their system is obviously overloading and the quality of the experience is diminished, how is that a good thing?
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  25. #50
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    Jan 2005
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    cb, co
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    I would have welcomed a few lift lines the past couple of days. I'm old and my body hurts, I could use the occasional rest.

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