Katana 108 - the resurrerection

[Lord Thomas]

A few quick highlights from the WWSRA demo. Conditions: shitty. Rained on and refrozen (think standing water and slush on the groomed runs) Spent almost all of my time on the groomed as the off piste would give you a concussion just from the sound alone, only got off the groomed track a few times for testing purposes. Need to in their natal environment before any firm opinions can be drawn. For reference, me, 5'11 and 220lb. Haven't been on the metal 191 in years but, until last year, did own the previous 190 (plastic tunnel on the tail and slight reverse camber). The 190 always struck me as a capable, fun ski, but kind of reminded me of a big, heavy puppy. Really easy to get along with considering what it could do when you kicked it in the ass.

Now on to the 108. Rocker/camber profile looks pretty similar to the 102, just a little deeper. Will post pics if I get off my ass. First off, anyone who was worried that they made it too light, don't. Didn't put on a scale but it's no featherweight. Flexes similar to the 102 but didn't spend much time playing with flex, more interested in how it skis. So, with the conditions in mind, on to that part.
* 184 - Actually, a really easy to manage ski. Much like the 102 it pivots with little effort, decent rebound out of a turn and can be driven into a really tight arc when asked but really likes to turn on an arc. Big sweet spot with respect to how you stand on it. Can drive the tips, stand in the middle, or tailgun and it won't kick your ass. Damp and stable about like the 102, but as you might expect, the 102 is a touch quicker edge to edge and might have a touch more pop out of the turn. The 184 has a big speed limit but, at least preliminarily, I think I got it there a couple of times.

* 191 - Need more test time but this could be the killing machine you've been waiting for. In terms of table manners it was much like the 184 but there was noticeably more swing weight. Not punishing at all, easy to pivot, could go slow or fast as desired....... Now, the thing that really struck me with the 191 was how strong it was on edge. Like crazy strong....like it should have had WC or FIS printed on the tail. Couldn't/was'nt willing to hit the speed limit on this thing. Maybe it was the tune or??? but the 191 was stronger on edge than the 191 Mantra 102. Felt totally confident putting it on high edge angles at SPEED. Really damp and tracks REALLY well. NOT EASILY DEFLECTED. Can't wait to put it in some deep, heavy chop.

Overall I would say that it is cut from the same cloth as the Mantra 102, just a little bigger "feeling" and a touch more damp. 191 tracks like a champion. In the conditions available at the demo this new Katana 108 is a better ski than the old 190 in every way.

[undertow2]

LT - this makes me all tingly inside...! Thanks for the thread and info - already told my shop to add a 191 Katana to their order for next year...


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[Norseman]

Yup, boner

[jackattack]

I have to disagree with your assessment that this ski is “really damp”. Yeah, it’s stiff and powerful, held a strong edge, but the tips are so light and thin to the point that they’re ping-y. I could audibly hear and feel every imperfection in surface.

[Norseman]

Mrrrp, boner droop

[undertow2]

^^^^This...! No bueno...!


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Just get the 193 Corvus. No pinging, very powerful and stiff. Great in variable snow like Mission offered today.

[jackattack]

Corvus is more damp, they're about the same stiffness, but the Katana is more powerful with better stability and edge hold for big GS style turns. I've decided I'm not a fan of reverse camber skis, so I'd definitely roll with the Katana if I had to choose one of them.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Corvus is more damp, they're about the same stiffness, but the Katana is more powerful with better stability and edge hold for big GS style turns. I've decided I'm not a fan of reverse camber skis, so I'd definitely roll with the Katana if I had to choose one of them.

You and Woody. Give it several days, if I need more edge hold than the Corvus can provide I don’t want to ski snow that hard. They were great last Sunday and slayed the variable today.

[stuckathuntermtn]

The weird shape wasn't too turn or bouncy?

[jackattack]

You and Woody. Give it several days, if I need more edge hold than the Corvus can provide I don’t want to ski snow that hard. They were great last Sunday and slayed the variable today.

Dude, I skied a half-day on them in the conditions I would be happy with other mid-fats such as my Wren 108. They were not intuitive for me at all. I really have no incentive to give it any more time than that. It's not like I'm lacking for skis that suit me better.

The weird shape wasn't too turn or bouncy?

You'll have to be more specific, somehow this turned into a Corvus thread.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Sorry if I missed it - any idea on weight for the new Katana?

[rob stokes]

I’m still sad it’s not full rocker, and not 112+. This may be a good ski....but it ain’t a Katana


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Dude, I skied a half-day on them in the conditions I would be happy with other mid-fats such as my Wren 108. They were not intuitive for me at all. I really have no incentive to give it any more time than that. It's not like I'm lacking for skis that suit me better.



You'll have to be more specific, somehow this turned into a Corvus thread.

That’s fair. I’m not sure what people are talking about when they say a ski is “powerful”. I get stiff, damp, stable, poppy, light and heavy. What do people mean by powerful? Is it solely a property of skis with camber? I would call that poppy or dynamic. Enlighten me.

[2FUNKY]

Just get the 193 Corvus. No pinging, very powerful and stiff. .

That’s fair. I’m not sure what people are talking about when they say a ski is “powerful”. I get stiff, damp, stable, poppy, light and heavy. What do people mean by powerful? Is it solely a property of skis with camber? I would call that poppy or dynamic. Enlighten me.

Ok, so enlighten us since you used it first....

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Ok, so enlighten us since you used it first....

I was using it because the Kai used it. I’m not really sure what it means. What does it mean to you A A Ron?

[2FUNKY]

I was using it because the Kai used it. I’m not really sure what it means. What does it mean to you A A Ron?

Heh.
No cat in this fight... just thought I’d break out the squirt bottle.

[Ottoclave]

I’m still sad it’s not full rocker, and not 112+. This may be a good ski....but it ain’t a Katana


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108 is the new 112.

[ACH]

just thought I’d break out the squirt bottle.

I can see this becoming a continuing trend over the next three months.

[Lord Thomas]

OK, back to the original intent of this thread. Below are tip (decambered) and tail rocker pics of the K108.





To respond to JackAttack, yes, not quite the same rubbery damp as as the old Katanas and it does make a different sound, more of a, for lack of a better description, brittle, metallic sound. I would say it feels a little more "crisp" under foot but it doesn't feel pingy. In fact, it feels just like the M102....surprise.

In terms of capability, I'd say it can do just about anything the old Katana could do and more. The 108 is much stronger on edge, tracks better on firm snow, nearly as easy to pivot, probably floats as well (judging from tests with the 102) and resists deflection just as well. Hard to judge the weight with demo clamps installed but this one doesn't feel too light. So before your boners fall off give it a try. The 191 can kill.

Katana 108 vs. Corvus....I suppose try them both and judge for yourself. To each their own. Black Crows pulled out of the demo at the last second. Too bad as this was the match up that was giving me the boner.

[Norseman]

Bonerz for everyone!

[jackattack]

That’s fair. I’m not sure what people are talking about when they say a ski is “powerful”. I get stiff, damp, stable, poppy, light and heavy. What do people mean by powerful? Is it solely a property of skis with camber? I would call that poppy or dynamic. Enlighten me.

That’s a good question. I’d call powerful the intersection of stable and energetic. I would say that most powerful skis do have camber, possibly due to the potential energy stored in the spring but that doesn’t necessarily translate to poppy.

[altacoup]

OK, back to the original intent of this thread. Below are tip (decambered) and tail rocker pics of the K108.





To respond to JackAttack, yes, not quite the same rubbery damp as as the old Katanas and it does make a different sound, more of a, for lack of a better description, brittle, metallic sound. I would say it feels a little more "crisp" under foot but it doesn't feel pingy. In fact, it feels just like the M102....surprise.

In terms of capability, I'd say it can do just about anything the old Katana could do and more. The 108 is much stronger on edge, tracks better on firm snow, nearly as easy to pivot, probably floats as well (judging from tests with the 102) and resists deflection just as well. Hard to judge the weight with demo clamps installed but this one doesn't feel too light. So before your boners fall off give it a try. The 191 can kill.

Katana 108 vs. Corvus....I suppose try them both and judge for yourself. To each their own. Black Crows pulled out of the demo at the last second. Too bad as this was the match up that was giving me the boner.

I personally thought the Corvus sucked. One of those skis that looks right. Flexed right. But didn’t ski right. I like progressive mounts and felt the mount was way off. Felt like a gs ski, just wanted to carve. Not what I’m looking for in a ski that wide. Haven’t skied a volkl since the gotama/explosive era. But these new katanas look cool

[MagnificentUnicorn]

That’s a good question. I’d call powerful the intersection of stable and energetic. I would say that most powerful skis do have camber, possibly due to the potential energy stored in the spring but that doesn’t necessarily translate to poppy.

A reverse camber ski is just as much of a spring as a ski with camber. Think of a leaf spring.

[jackattack]

A positive camber ski is a leaf spring.

How do you load up a reverse camber ski? You can’t compress both ends simultaneously on a plane.