Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[jono]

This make it here yet?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...rgies-are-back

A similar (and similarly ambiguous) take:

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/742...g-over/act-2-6

[jono]

Huh.

Attachment 381142

How fortunate that a student's economic status won't be displayed if some students don't mask at all versus wearing the school-supplied masks.

[PB]

FFS; masks just get in the way of the intubation tube anyway.

[old goat]

Pretty sure it is. Benny likes posting these onionesque quotes. It wouldnt be out of the ordinary if it was Dump appointee

Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

It's from The Onion. Benny likes to post Onion pieces without attribution.

CFR is nearly 2%. IFR is likely between 0.5 and 1. 1/10 that for the vaxxed. That works out to 200 or 300 thousand deaths if we all get vaxxed and pass Covid around to everyone. The death rate for the vaxxed is not like a cold, and far worse than than a bad flu. There's injuries and long Covid too, tbf flu has some too. End goal of making it disappear, like New Zealand or Taiwan or China or Australia sounds good to me. Maybe we have too much freedom for that.

I propose we all get vaxxed, and also not pass Covid around. Minority opinion perhaps.


Former FDA head is wrong. Cases would be falling if we'd all already had it. Covid may be here to stay. Should we all run out and catch it like a cold, or suppress it like tuberculosis? I plan to delay catching it as long as possible, hoping it goes away or becomes less deadly. I recognize our society currently allows folks to make other choices.

It is highly unlikely that we will rid ourselves of Covid. The only viral disease eliminated is smallpox, and that took centuries. We've mostly eliminated polio but that has taken decades and if we stopped vaccinating it would be back. As far as the impact of death and disability as a proportion of the population--covid is worse than polio. Polio frightened people more--that's the impression I get--because it hurt children and because of the particularly frightening complication of paralysis. We will likely not even get a good handle on covid until a generation has been vaccinated as children, if that's even politically possible. The countries that seemed to have controlled covid are having their problems now. The level of control that that required was not sustainable.

[jono]

Sustainability is an open question. Places without community spread have tools we don't have. Like contact tracing to prevent spread by as-yet asymptomatic contacts. How different can that make things? We'll see.

I'm still waiting to hear what the new normal is going to look like. All the versions I've heard so far sound bad enough to precipitate further action, not create a stable endpoint.

[Ted Striker]

I fear the new normal will be we 'learn to live with it' even though all of the other first world countries actually get it under control. Just like shootings.

[KQ]

This is kinda interesting

How 5 of History's Worst Pandemics Finally Ended

[old goat]

Of the plagues in that article only smallpox was ended by medical intervention. The others were ended by control of vermin and sewage and by quarantine. When it comes to persistence over millennia it's hard to top TB. Even today the medical world is terrified of multidrug resistant TB.

[rod9301]

Of the plagues in that article only smallpox was ended by medical intervention. The others were ended by control of vermin and sewage and by quarantine. When it comes to persistence over millennia it's hard to top TB. Even today the medical world is terrified of multidrug resistant TB.

And the smallpox was ended by sending teams of doctors anywhere there was an outbreak to vaccinate everyone

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[Falcon3]

Except today if you tried to pitch an idea like city sewer, a shared resource paid through taxes, there would be a sizable portion of the population crying “SOCIALISM!!” and refusing to stop dumping their shit in the streets.

[riser4]

Except today if you tried to pitch an idea like city sewer, a shared resource paid through taxes, there would be a sizable portion of the population crying “SOCIALISM!!” and refusing to stop dumping their shit in the streets.

This.

[Core Shot]

You can pry my chamber pot from my cold dead hands

[bobz]

Well this has been fun! Two (mostly outdoor) parties in the past week, and running club happened this morning. Anybody out there giving dirty looks for not wearing masks would have to be getting pretty worn down, because out on the sidewalks and paths, there's much less mask wearing (exception: I was in SF yesterday, and on the sidewalks there masks are still the norm). And I have to imagine that people are being much less careful nearly everywhere outside of my burg Mid-Peninsula. That, and in just a few more days, my fair state is calling most of the restrictions officially over.

So I guess we'll see what happens, and if there's enough vax in the collective body for a bump in infection rates not to happen within the next month or so.

A month and a half later... Sigh. It was nice while it lasted. Solid work, conservatives.

[old_newguy]

I’d like to know what suddenly got some of these prominent politicians, who have previously not gotten the vaccine despite being at the front of the line, to run out and get shot 1 this week.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/0...-the-midterms/

TLDR. It’s the midterm polling, maybe.

[riser4]

I masked up at the grocery store today. Shopped for six including two teenage boys who eat me out of house and home. They inhale food. And their older sister works outside with a shovel so she's no slouch either. I am not sure I even need to unwrap the food first. No way was I spending a solid hour plus in there on a busy Sunday morning inhaling the delta with a naked face. And unfortunately that was the window I had for shopping. I wish I had an N95 or a full-on respirator. Some asshole fake coughed all the way down the aisle when he saw me. Probably time to buy a Narwall mask. I had to use my cart a few times to enforce distance. It feels like a year ago. Except only 10% were masked. There was an unmasked guy wearing a VT state health department jacket. With an unmasked kid who surely looked under 12. I left him alone. It's his day off and he's human. I have a little decency left. But fuck did I want to a) ask why the kid was unmasked. And b) when the fuck are the bringing back the mask mandates for everyone. Not bringing them back is unacceptable.

[Rideski]

R3 - for what it’s worth that graph I posted a day or two ago shows low transmission in VT.
Guess I should have titled the graph but was in a rush. Source cdc.

That said, kn95’s are readily available online.

[bodywhomper]

Lollapalooza!! Apparently, 90% of attendees showed their vax record upon entry. It’ll be interesting to hear how it goes.

[wooley12]

Fake cough would get a response.
"Do you have a problem with me?"
"Did your mom have any children that weren't morons?"

I need to work on it some more. Any ideas?

[LongShortLong]

It is highly unlikely that we will rid ourselves of Covid. The only viral disease eliminated is smallpox, and that took centuries. We've mostly eliminated polio but that has taken decades and if we stopped vaccinating it would be back. As far as the impact of death and disability as a proportion of the population--covid is worse than polio. Polio frightened people more--that's the impression I get--because it hurt children and because of the particularly frightening complication of paralysis. We will likely not even get a good handle on covid until a generation has been vaccinated as children, if that's even politically possible. The countries that seemed to have controlled covid are having their problems now. The level of control that that required was not sustainable.

Idk. As I count, there's several dozen diseases, viral and other, that are well enough controlled that my chance of being infected is essentially zero. We also eliminated SARS, and eliminated Ebola a couple times.

And the countries that controlled Covid are still controlling it. Taiwan had an outbreak, brought it under control. NZ had a few cases get loose, brought it under control. China's had a few outbreaks, brought them under control. Australia's bringing its most recent outbreak under control, except in one state where they decided it was good politics to have a soft lockdown, and laugh at the other states with their short, hard lockdowns. In all these places, people go about their normal lives without Covid restrictions or infections.

[LongShortLong]

Fake cough would get a response.
"Do you have a problem with me?"
"Did your mom have any children that weren't morons?"

I need to work on it some more. Any ideas?

Long hearty cough behind your mask.

[wooley12]

Long hearty cough behind your mask.

Did that early on and it was fruitful. We're past unmasked morons caring about getting covid. Thanks anyway.

"No mask? Well fuck you too."

[old goat]

Idk. As I count, there's several dozen diseases, viral and other, that are well enough controlled that my chance of being infected is essentially zero. We also eliminated SARS, and eliminated Ebola a couple times.

And the countries that controlled Covid are still controlling it. Taiwan had an outbreak, brought it under control. NZ had a few cases get loose, brought it under control. China's had a few outbreaks, brought them under control. Australia's bringing its most recent outbreak under control, except in one state where they decided it was good politics to have a soft lockdown, and laugh at the other states with their short, hard lockdowns. In all these places, people go about their normal lives without Covid restrictions or infections.

Controlling by constantly vaccinating the population is not eliminating. Ebola is hardly eliminated--it keeps popping back up. SARS is a mystery--maybe it was eliminated by diligent public health measures when there only 8000 cases and less than 800 deaths. Maybe it made people too sick too fast for them to spread it, maybe there was some unknown biological reason, maybe it's still around--perhaps in a Chinese lab waiting to be released when the Chinese have a good vaccine for it.. In any case, we're way past the point of eliminating Covid 19 by public health measures.

My point and the point of the experts I am relying on is not that we will experience pandemic conditions indefinitely but that we will never be able to just forget about it. People don't get measles because they get shots as kids. If as I expect vaccines in general become more and more politicized measles, and mumps, and maybe even polio will be back (people still make it to the US carrying the polio virus). Also, the viral diseases we have controlled well have very low mutability.

Not all viruses can be prevented by vaccination--Hepatitis C for example, something I worried about a lot more than HIV. We got lucky with Covid.

[riser4]

R3 - for what it’s worth that graph I posted a day or two ago shows low transmission in VT.
Guess I should have titled the graph but was in a rush. Source cdc.

That said, kn95’s are readily available online.

Don't trust kn95 but I guess they are better than what I was wearing. My wife just got some delivered. After I got home.

Regarding VT. I expect it to get very bad very soon. Lots of summer folk and others coming here because it's so good. And they will bring the delta with them. Meanwhile very few people are masking their under 12s. So the unmasked vaccinated will catch delta and pass it to their kids. Fortunately my family is over 12, well except for my mental age, but that's a different story.

[riser4]

Controlling by constantly vaccinating the population is not eliminating. Ebola is hardly eliminated--it keeps popping back up. SARS is a mystery--maybe it was eliminated by diligent public health measures when there only 8000 cases and less than 800 deaths. Maybe it made people too sick too fast for them to spread it, maybe there was some unknown biological reason, maybe it's still around--perhaps in a Chinese lab waiting to be released when the Chinese have a good vaccine for it.. In any case, we're way past the point of eliminating Covid 19 by public health measures.

My point and the point of the experts I am relying on is not that we will experience pandemic conditions indefinitely but that we will never be able to just forget about it. People don't get measles because they get shots as kids. If as I expect vaccines in general become more and more politicized measles, and mumps, and maybe even polio will be back (people still make it to the US carrying the polio virus). Also, the viral diseases we have controlled well have very low mutability.

Not all viruses can be prevented by vaccination--Hepatitis C for example, something I worried about a lot more than HIV. We got lucky with Covid.

Wanna share some needles? I feel a little guilty. I was in a hotel room with a bunch of folks after a Dead show once and some needle users wanted me to drive to the store to get bleach so they could clean and share their rigs because that's what they were low on. I was too fucked up, was driving a sketchy looking rig, had already been pulled over and had a close call in Atlanta on that tour, and it was late at night in Landover, MD. No way I was driving anywhere. I told them that they were junkies and they should do what they do best: talk the hotel out of some bleach, or steal it from a cart or closet. I mean c'mon, the freaks had pretty much taken over that hotel and the staff was barely holding any ground. I have no idea what they ultimately did, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't HIV or Hep safe. Friends of a friend.

[riser4]

R3 - for what it’s worth that graph I posted a day or two ago shows low transmission in VT.
Guess I should have titled the graph but was in a rush. Source cdc.

That said, kn95’s are readily available online.

https://www.wcax.com/2021/08/01/cdc-...s-substantial/