Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[riser4]

Minimum wage and discounts on power tools isn't worth getting shot by some yahoo.

That would be worth having as a sign line if it wasn't from bunny.

[Bunion 2020]

No it's not. There's so much tin hat pessimism in this thread that it's laughable. Stop watching CNN and MSNBC for a while, and your life will get better, I promise.

Ya know, this isn't the 1st time for something like this.

Reopening too soon: Lessons from the deadly second wave of the 1918 flu pandemic
What the 1918 flu pandemic can teach states about reopening during coronavirus
As coronavirus lockdowns loosen across the country, the debate surrounding reopening too soon is striking an eerily familiar tone. (Adriana Usero/The Washington Post)


As coronavirus lockdowns loosen and some Americans flock to restaurants, beaches and other outdoor spaces for Memorial Day weekend, the question of reopening too quickly is striking an eerily familiar echo.

The global flu epidemic of 1918 remains the deadliest on record. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the pandemic killed an estimated 50 million worldwide and over half a million in the United States. J. Alexander Navarro of the University of Michigan’s Center for History of Medicine is one of the organizers of the “Influenza Archive,” a collection of information cataloguing and studying the effects of the 1918 pandemic in 43 major U.S. cities.

The research sought an answer to a key question: Was social distancing effective in 1918 as a way of slowing the spread of the disease and saving lives?

Trump is ignoring the lessons of 1918 flu pandemic that killed millions, historian says

Navarro said cities that closed schools and banned public gatherings fared better against the flu. “They had both lower peak and total overall morbidity and mortality cases and deaths,” he said.

In fact, statewide orders making masks mandatory and shuttering nonessential business were widespread in 1918. San Francisco, for example, imposed fines on individuals failing to wear a mask in public, prompting protests.

Current research tracking the success of social distancing efforts to ease the spread of the novel coronavirus point to the same conclusion.

But varying levels of enforcement combined with World War I created a variety of outcomes in 1918. That fall marked the disease’s second and deadliest wave in the United States.

“The pandemic started in military camps first and foremost. So the military worked to try and control those epidemics in the camps,” Navarro said. “The average Joe in the fall of 1918 was very much preoccupied with things like the Liberty Loan drives.”

A killer flu was raging. But in 1918, U.S. officials ignored the crisis to fight a war.

Philadelphia’s infamous decision not to cancel its Liberty Loan parade in late September resulted in 1,000 deaths in the span of 10 days, making the city one of the hardest hit by the epidemic.

Other cities such as Denver lifted restrictions that November on Armistice Day to celebrate the end of the war, only to experience a deadlier spike.

“Pretty much every city that we examined reported on huge crowds immediately congregating downtown in stores and cafes and theaters and bowling alleys,” Navarro said, adding that the crowding happened on the very day social distancing orders were lifted.

Navarro notes that the main difference between 1918 and the current coronavirus pandemic is the vastly different economic landscape — particularly the role of retail, restaurants, movie theaters and other small businesses. “They could shut down places of public amusement and not have the same type of impact on the local economy in 1918 because the manufacturing sector was so dominant,” Navarro said. “This is an economy that’s built on the service sector. So I think we’re in for a much greater and more severe economic impact today than we were in 1918.”

As states continue to grapple with the pandemic, many are easing restrictions and pushing to revive lagging economies. But leading health experts warn of a second wave of infection. Navarro is cautious about which lessons to draw from the past, noting advances in medical science and technology, but points to a worrying parallel in human behavior.

“Even though the historical context changes, there’s going to be a great clamoring to get back to life as normal,” he said. “There could be really terrible public health consequences as a result.”

And like others I watch neither of those channels. Or Fox.

[old goat]

My glasses fog if I look down while wearing a mask. So I have to hold my head up high. And SIP.

Save the plastic and wire thingies that seal bags of coffee. Sew them into the top seam of homemade masks to seal around the nose. That will help with the fogging and also reduce leakage of virus.

[old goat]

Again for the 100th time: How is requiring a mask any different than requiring shirt and shoes?

Or no smoking?

Or no food or drink?

Or no pets?

I just don't get it.

How is telling someone they can't infect other people different than telling them they can't shoot them. I take it back. Telling them they can't shoot someone infringes on their second amendment rights. Substitute "stab" for "shoot", or is a knife considered arms too.

[bodywhomper]

Orange County CA is now mandating mask wearing for all people in public

That cdc report about ~33% asymptomatic and ~6 day (presymptomatic) latency from having a positive test to having symptoms, when presumably shedding and spreading virus, I do not hear a lot of messaging about this information. It seems like pretty important information with a meaning that needs to be interpreted for the masses or public health agencies just need to come down harder with the mandates.

[old goat]

Ugh

On Tuesday our county had zero active cases. It was kept under wraps in fear that people would go out thinking everything is in the clear, forgetting about how outsiders can bring it in.

Wednesday through Friday we saw the biggest increase in cases yet, a 20% increase from four distinct clusters from four family gatherings. One was quite large and included friends and family who traveled from out of state. In that case, they brought it with them as a gift. The other three clusters are not from outside source it is believed, but spread wide due to extended families getting together to hang out indoors.

Yesterday there was a line of traffic a half mile long waiting to get into town from Route 1. As I waited for the light to change to bike home, we waved and thanked people for visiting our town. I want to get out there today with a sign "No Thank You. Stay at Home"

Will be going back out on the trails again today. Biking from my house, wearing a mask, not spreading this shit. Fuck you to all of ya"ll traveling around and not covering your face holes. A big fuck you. Selfish pricks the every last one of ya.

3 out of 4 clusters had only locals, and the 4th had locals and outsiders, but outsiders are the problem?
People who think that where they live is safe from the virus get careless, and then blame someone else.

The people who live across our back fence spend a lot of time in their yard. A week ago they had a big party. Since then they haven't been in the yard at all. Maybe they died.

[XXX-er]

Furious masturbation, of course. This place is slipping...

they interviewed a blind climber on CBC, the 1st question they asked was how he became blind he said masturbation, he went blind cuz he didnt quit soon enough,

I think they were on a sat phone laughing in a tent somewhere

In any case one should stop while they only need glasses

[KQ]

In a country led by a moran who is no leader, leading a huge population that is so divided that the politics trump public health and basic reasoning, the death toll is going way bigger

Trump’s Claimed at Least 6 Times That He’s Been Michigan’s ‘Man of the Year.’ There’s Only One Problem: The Award Doesn’t Exist

Orange County CA is now mandating mask wearing for all people in public

That cdc report about ~33% asymptomatic and ~6 day (presymptomatic) latency from having a positive test to having symptoms, when presumably shedding and spreading virus, I do not hear a lot of messaging about this information. It seems like pretty important information with a meaning that needs to be interpreted for the masses or public health agencies just need to come down harder with the mandates.

White House coronavirus response coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx said Sunday that there is "clear scientific evidence" that masks work -- adding that she assumes President Donald Trump is able to keep six feet of distance "in a majority of cases" when pressed on whether he should wear one.

"What we have said to people is there is clear scientific evidence now, by all the droplet experiments that happened, and that others have done, to show that a mask does prevent droplets from reaching others," Birx said on "Fox News Sunday" when asked what she would tell people who say they have a right not to wear a mask in public.

"Out of respect for each other, as Americans that care for each other, we need to be wearing masks in public when we cannot social distance," she said.

No it's not. There's so much tin hat pessimism in this thread that it's laughable. Stop watching CNN and MSNBC for a while, and your life will get better, I promise.

I consider myself a realist. As I as before, there is still a long way to go.

[jono]

Is their quantitative evidence of antibody titers between symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers?

My understanding, to date, is that humans, and presumably hamsters, with COVID-19 symptoms are far more likely to spread infection than, seemingly, non-symptomatic hosts.

Viva, have you seen evidence that would answer OG's question above? Can you post a link? Seems like everyone says this is more likely than not but seeing evidence of it would be really helpful. Thanks!

[The AD]

No it's not. There's so much tin hat pessimism in this thread that it's laughable. Stop watching CNN and MSNBC for a while, and your life will get better, I promise.

By what measure can you say the death toll is not getting much bigger? Maybe there is too much pessimism here, but unbridled optimism in this situation is what's dangerous.

[XXX-er]

I think the bigger probelm beyond pessimism is heads in the sand, lies, bulshit and the really big one is the failure of a leader TO lead

up here the PM is giving it away like the town tramp and nobody is arguing about all the free moeny he is giving them

buddy will get re-eclected fo sho

not sure how it will all be paid for but that is another chapter

[KQ]

I think the bigger probelm beyond pessimism is heads in the sand, lies, bulshit and the really big one is the failure of a leader TO lead

100%!

[seano732]

Yeah... been feeling demoralized everytime I see HIM on the news and hear the crap coming out of his mouth.

I did however save a baby bunny from my cat tonight.

[subtle plague]

Naaa he's one of those outliers that can punish their body without issue. Part of being mostly evil.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aI0euMFAWF8

[KQ]

Here's some questions for the face mask shamers:

Do you shame a person who wears a hat/sunscreen to protect their skin from the damaging rays of the sun?

Do you shame a person who wears a seat belt to increase their odds of surviving a car wreck?

Do you shame a person for taking an uber/cab or walking home when they've had too much to drink so they don't risk killing themselves or others by being drunk behind the wheel?

Do you shame a welder for wearing a mask so he doesn't harm his eyes?

Do you shame the construction worker for wearing a hard hat?

Do you shame a police officer for wearing a Kevlar vest?

Do you shame a boater for wearing a life vest?



I could go on but you get the idea. As the Governor of ND said in his plea to the citizens of his state to wear masks:

“I would ask people to dial up your empathy and your understanding,” said the governor. “If someone is wearing a mask, they’re not doing it to represent what political party they’re in, or what candidates they support. They might be doing it because they’ve got a 5-year-old child who’s been going through cancer treatments [or] have vulnerable adults in their life,” he added, his voice breaking.

[frorider]

This is the most relevant:

Do you shame a person for taking an uber/cab or walking home when they've had too much to drink so they don't risk killing themselves or others by being drunk behind the wheel?

An automobile driver wearing a seatbelt reduces their own chance of injury/death, but also is more likely to retain control of the car and perhaps avoid a head on collision that kills others.

Like getting your kids vaccinated, when technology or medicine has created win/win solutions, you have to be simultaneously selfish AND stupid to avoid them.

[Lone Star]

No it's not. There's so much tin hat pessimism in this thread that it's laughable. Stop watching CNN and MSNBC for a while, and your life will get better, I promise.

How much time do you spend watching other cable news stations?

[KQ]

This is the most relevant:


An automobile driver wearing a seatbelt reduces their own chance of injury/death, but also is more likely to retain control of the car and perhaps avoid a head on collision that kills others.

Like getting your kids vaccinated, when technology or medicine has created win/win solutions, you have to be simultaneously selfish AND stupid to avoid them.

And another thing... when hospitals tell you that you can't come in without a face mask people don't go apeshit. No... they understand that the mask protects themselves and others so why can't they extend that to other places?






Bots Are Likely Responsible For Nearly Half Of COVID-19 Tweets, Say Researchers

Nearly half of some 200 million tweets about COVID-19 likely came from bots, with many of them plugging false cures, peddling conspiracy theories and clamoring for the U.S. to drop safety measures in order to re-open America, researchers have found.

[Ottime]

3 out of 4 clusters had only locals, and the 4th had locals and outsiders, but outsiders are the problem?
People who think that where they live is safe from the virus get careless, and then blame someone else.

The people who live across our back fence spend a lot of time in their yard. A week ago they had a big party. Since then they haven't been in the yard at all. Maybe they died.

They are both problems, but you are lying to yourself if you think folks coming in from highly infected areas into low infection areas is not a problem. Locals and tourist. But at least tourists can stay home and not come here. I don't understand why you keep tooting this horn. It is plain selfish and irresponsible to travel for recreation right now.

For the record, the one investigation that is competed was deemed to arrived from the out of state guests at the party. The other three incidents have nit had their source determined yet.

Also good to note one of the clusters is from a multi generational Mother's Day Party. The cluster was discovered this past Wednesday, so a bit of lag there.

Without a doubt, all this holiday travel I'm seeing is going to add to our problems. Just drove along West Cliff on my way home. Loads of people, often shoulder to shoulder. Saw about 6 masks in the horde the whole way. No one is giving a shit.

So yea, please shelter inlace and don't drive to my community. I"m not driving to yours. Please stay the fuck near home.

[KQ]

They are both problems, but you are lying to yourself if you think folks coming in from highly infected areas into low infection areas is not a problem. Locals and tourist. But at least tourists can stay home and not come here. I don't understand why you keep tooting this horn. It is plain selfish and irresponsible to travel for recreation right now.

For the record, the one investigation that is competed was deemed to arrived from the out of state guests at the party. The other three incidents have nit had their source determined yet.

Also good to note one of the clusters is from a multi generational Mother's Day Party. The cluster was discovered this past Wednesday, so a bit of lag there.

Without a doubt, all this holiday travel I'm seeing is going to add to our problems. Just drove along West Cliff on my way home. Loads of people, often shoulder to shoulder. Saw about 6 masks in the horde the whole way. No one is giving a shit.

So yea, please shelter inlace and don't drive to my community. I"m not driving to yours. Please stay the fuck near home.

Can't until Washington state opens up and people start coming to W2 for wine tasting. One of the few things that I think saved us was Inlsee shutting the state down prior to Spring Release weekend. Yes we desperately need the tourist dollars but no we don't need a fresh influx of virus. It's a double edged sword for sure.

[splat]

[Flyoverland Captive]

Looks like it’s finally hit my county; 3 more confirmed yesterday for a total of four. And people walking around Prineville, no masks, big groups everywhere. Here we go!

[SkiBall]

We need visitors for revenue and jobs, but really nervous about that fact. Catch 22.

[bennymac]

Cantdog- thanks for sharing your experiences. Helpful for people to know that despite your “normal” job this is an entirely different situation being faced by front line health care workers in big hospitals

[splat]