Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[Tri-Ungulate]

Can we agree that there have been many cases of systemic wrongdoing over the years? Racism, economic policies that favor the rich and destroy the middle class and poor, environmental rape, junk food, tobacco, oil industry...
And I am sure we can agree that there is a corruption of politics via lobbyists that pay politicians to draft up laws and policies that benefit corporate interests while harming the general public?

Personally agree. But I’m gonna guess that more than a few here that don’t agree, especially those who are enamored of the status quo, whether they’re explicit about it or not.

If we can agree on the above, then do you think science is any different? With billions of dollars at stake, a pharmaceutical industry that is sketchy at best, and such a high level of corruption seemingly across the board, can you really trust that the system is going to do what's right for people's health? Especially when the system has a track record of not giving a shit about your health, now they are here to do what's right and save us?
Is it possible that pharma has a systemic corruption of science and they use their billions of dollars to control the narrative they want to see? (sick people good for biz, healthy people bad)
Or does corruption just apply to everything except science?
Maybe all of you guys are making smart decisions based on corrupted and wrong data?

Disclaimer: I still think of myself as a scientist, though I’m kinda washed up these days, at least as far as basic “bench” science, though still doing clinical research. Also, dirty little not-so-secret is mofro and huckbucket are pharma bros, but the good kind, both real scientists and pretty good ones AFAIK. At least they’re damn good skiers, having skied with both of ‘em. In any case, I’m more of a pharma ho, so take that as you will.

No doubt that pharma has a significant influence on biomedical science. Yes, the billions of dollars they reap and spend has an impact on what gets funded, which results get published, etc. That being said, even though I share a degree of cynicism, I do believe how Big Pharma “control the narrative” does not extend to the extent you are proposing - “sick people good for biz, healthy people bad”.

Yes, Pharma wants to make money, but overall in ways that address health problems, rather than promulgating them, at least from the science perspective (not necessarily from the business perspective, e.g. Bizness Pharma Bro Schkreli). I’ve heard tinfoil hat stuff like “the cancer conspiracy” ad nauseum (and to which you appear to be addending a similar kind of COVID19 conspiracy) and it’s a buncha paranoid claptrap, for plenty of reasons.

Most importantly, science as a venture, at least in its current incarnation, and as imperfect and compromised as it is, strives to self-correct and work towards finding and defining the uncorrupted and correct data. Not that corrupted and wrong data doesn’t exist or get published, but that it is eventually found to be non-replicable and ultimately false. It is the self-correction of science that resists systemic corruption and false narratives. It’s a fragile construct, and constantly under threat, but IMO still viable.

[SirVicSmasher]

Love it

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[garyfromterrace]

EU set to ban incoming US travelers, citing virus failures.....
#MAGA
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/w...ravel-ban.html

,................

[plugboots]

Hey KQ... your vet is a dumbfuck. Get a new one.

[bodywhomper]

Yes, we call them "pants"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucele.../#33339234310f

I guess I've been hanging out at the wrong beaches lately

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[evdog]

Sadly, I think it is the dumbasses who are more responsible for the thread's meteoric growth. #notnamingnames #weknowwhoyouare

I don't think we should give credit for the growth of this thread to any poster here. There are much bigger dumbasses in the world who deserve much more credit, realistically speaking. #notnamingnames #weknowwhoyouare

[evdog]

Oh, and - haven't seen anything posted about this here or in the news. But what's-her-name is apparently out. After less than 3 months.

"CBS News reports that based on conversations with multiple current and former officials, the campaign is reevaluating next steps based on Saturday's rally, with turnout considered a major factor. But the "reevaluation" is also part of a larger, ongoing campaign shake-up."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-c...ess-secretary/

[Skidog]

I have been to the vet a bunch in the last 2 months and it is the most locked down place I have ever been to. Call from the parking lot, they will call you back when the room, off the side entrance, is vacant. Deposit your pet in said room and leave. They will get back to you.

Same here in orange cty NY

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[concretejungle]

Hey KQ... your vet is a dumbfuck. Get a new one.

She won’t. Same with all her ass hat MAGA friends. Sorry KQ but you continue to subject yourself to this stuff and then wonder “why me?”

[Super G]

I trust that there's a viral strain out there that has circled the globe and infected millions of people and killed hundreds of thousands. Are you debating even that? Not sure where you're even going with this...

Of course I am not debating if covid is real. Me and my family tested positive for antibodies after we had mild/no symptoms back in March. Nearly all of my friends and half of my town tested positive too. My neighbor and a client of mine passed away.

I am just trying to present another way to view what could be going on, based on what has happened in the past. If you accept the fact that the system has been deeply corrupted for many decades, and still place faith in it to do the right thing now, then you are either naive or delusional. If you are happy with the system and how it operates, then hooray for you, you get to carry on in your utopian bubble.

[glademaster]

This thread needs a little levity, and fewer conspiracy theorists.

[Super G]

Personally agree. But I’m gonna guess that more than a few here that don’t agree, especially those who are enamored of the status quo, whether they’re explicit about it or not.


Disclaimer: I still think of myself as a scientist, though I’m kinda washed up these days, at least as far as basic “bench” science, though still doing clinical research. Also, dirty little not-so-secret is mofro and huckbucket are pharma bros, but the good kind, both real scientists and pretty good ones AFAIK. At least they’re damn good skiers, having skied with both of ‘em. In any case, I’m more of a pharma ho, so take that as you will.

No doubt that pharma has a significant influence on biomedical science. Yes, the billions of dollars they reap and spend has an impact on what gets funded, which results get published, etc. That being said, even though I share a degree of cynicism, I do believe how Big Pharma “control the narrative” does not extend to the extent you are proposing - “sick people good for biz, healthy people bad”.

Yes, Pharma wants to make money, but overall in ways that address health problems, rather than promulgating them, at least from the science perspective (not necessarily from the business perspective, e.g. Bizness Pharma Bro Schkreli). I’ve heard tinfoil hat stuff like “the cancer conspiracy” ad nauseum (and to which you appear to be addending a similar kind of COVID19 conspiracy) and it’s a buncha paranoid claptrap, for plenty of reasons.

Most importantly, science as a venture, at least in its current incarnation, and as imperfect and compromised as it is, strives to self-correct and work towards finding and defining the uncorrupted and correct data. Not that corrupted and wrong data doesn’t exist or get published, but that it is eventually found to be non-replicable and ultimately false. It is the self-correction of science that resists systemic corruption and false narratives. It’s a fragile construct, and constantly under threat, but IMO still viable.

thanks for the intelligent response. I do have hope that real science will prevail. As all of this comes to a head in the coming years, the truth will be plain for all to see. I hope I am wrong and the questions I posed in my original post will be debunked, but right now we have some serious truth finding to do before that happens.

[seano732]

Welp, looks like our alien overlords are here....What. The. Fuck.
https://twitter.com/secupp/status/12...680000513?s=21

[TBS]

^^^Love the reply “Boy are they gonna be disappointed after hey say ‘take us to your leader’”

[The AD]

Of course I am not debating if covid is real. Me and my family tested positive for antibodies after we had mild/no symptoms back in March. Nearly all of my friends and half of my town tested positive too. My neighbor and a client of mine passed away.

I am just trying to present another way to view what could be going on, based on what has happened in the past. If you accept the fact that the system has been deeply corrupted for many decades, and still place faith in it to do the right thing now, then you are either naive or delusional. If you are happy with the system and how it operates, then hooray for you, you get to carry on in your utopian bubble.

There have been plenty of viewpoints expressed in this thread, but "trusting the system" certainly hasn't been one of the salient ones I've noticed.

[The AD]

Welp, looks like our alien overlords are here....What. The. Fuck.
https://twitter.com/secupp/status/12...680000513?s=21

I guess they've never heard of these things called drones?

[old goat]

Of course I am not debating if covid is real. Me and my family tested positive for antibodies after we had mild/no symptoms back in March. Nearly all of my friends and half of my town tested positive too. My neighbor and a client of mine passed away.

I am just trying to present another way to view what could be going on, based on what has happened in the past. If you accept the fact that the system has been deeply corrupted for many decades, and still place faith in it to do the right thing now, then you are either naive or delusional. If you are happy with the system and how it operates, then hooray for you, you get to carry on in your utopian bubble.

There is no "system". There are various local, state, and federal institutions with various levels of competence and corruption. Blaming everything on "the system" prevents you from making any meaningful improvement--like voting Trump out of office in November for example. But the main reason we are doing so poorly in controlling the virus is the general orneriness, selfishness, ungovernability, and lack of civic mindedness of the American people, combined with our tendency to blame everything on "the system" or on immigrants, or on POC, or on libs or on anyone but ourselves. Which makes you part of the problem.

[St. Jerry]

There is no "system". There are various local, state, and federal institutions with various levels of competence and corruption. Blaming everything on "the system" prevents you from making any meaningful improvement--like voting Trump out of office in November for example. But the main reason we are doing so poorly in controlling the virus is the general orneriness, selfishness, ungovernability, and lack of civic mindedness of the American people, combined with our tendency to blame everything on "the system" or on immigrants, or on POC, or on libs or on anyone but ourselves. Which makes you part of the problem.

Hate to make this a red vs. blue state thing, but after getting initially knocked hard here in New York State, we've done pretty damn well at controlling Covid. And trust me, mask wearing and social distancing sucked (and still does), but we sucked it up and did it for the greater good of society.
So you can't lump everyone in to the above situation.

Can New York State please succeed from the union now?

[The AD]

U.S. reported the third highest total of new cases since this thing started. I have no doubt we'll surpass the previous all-time high within the week. This is truly shameful. Just compare Italy's curve vs. the U.S. (from the NY Times).

U.S.


Italy

[::: :::]

There’s a fuckton of “don’t tell me what to do” in the US

Some people misrepresent or misunderstand that as “liberty”

Liberty only exists as we we work together to make sure we all can live peacefully together. That isn’t at all the same as “I’ll do whatever I feel like & fuck you”.

And here we are at 123k deaths in the US and rising...

[Deebased]

People eat Tide pods for the "sport" of it, why not drink some gas?

Same kids who are out protesting....Hmmm

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Hate to make this a red vs. blue state thing, but after getting initially knocked hard here in New York State, we've done pretty damn well at controlling Covid. And trust me, mask wearing and social distancing sucked (and still does), but we sucked it up and did it for the greater good of society.
So you can't lump everyone in to the above situation.

Can New York State please succeed from the union now?

New York State has been pretty successful.


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[gravitylover]

Hate to make this a red vs. blue state thing, but after getting initially knocked hard here in New York State, we've done pretty damn well at controlling Covid. And trust me, mask wearing and social distancing sucked (and still does), but we sucked it up and did it for the greater good of society.
So you can't lump everyone in to the above situation.

Can New York State please succeed from the union now?

Secede
I travel around the state for work and masks are not "a thing" anymore in a lot of places. I went into a crowded pizza place near Albany on mond6and was the only one with a mask, one of the employees even looked at me and said "don't you feel silly with that thing on? Why don't you just relax and take it off" so I walked out. Some of my customers won't let you in if you're wearing one so I don't visit them which sucks when you live on commisions.

[Deebased]

Absolutely.

Sadly, I think it is the dumbasses who are more responsible for the thread's meteoric growth. #notnamingnames #weknowwhoyouare

Fauci? CDC? WHO? trump?

Blood is on all of their hands

[KQ]

Oh, and - haven't seen anything posted about this here or in the news. But what's-her-name is apparently out. After less than 3 months.

"CBS News reports that based on conversations with multiple current and former officials, the campaign is reevaluating next steps based on Saturday's rally, with turnout considered a major factor. But the "reevaluation" is also part of a larger, ongoing campaign shake-up."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-c...ess-secretary/

Flavor of the month.