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  1. #29051
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    Oct 2003
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    43,609
    Dude, wait until he loses.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  2. #29052
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    X

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  3. #29053
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    Sep 2006
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    5,257
    Quote Originally Posted by ötzi View Post
    Certainly if Trump wins they're golden. If Biden wins I dunno. You may be right there's so much of it that guys like this slug might slither under the prosecutorial radar.
    Chasing people with resources is harder. So instead they’ll spend millions to chase sitting ducks instead.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-...ck-11601890201

  4. #29054
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    Nov 2005
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    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
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    28,086
    Paywall, can you C&P?
    Forum Cross Pollinator

  5. #29055
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    Sep 2006
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    5,257
    Fuck they make that hard. How do they disable select all? You owe me a beer.

    By Lauren Weber | Photographs by Caleb Santiago Alvarado for The Wall Street Journal
    Updated Oct. 5, 2020 10:47 am ET
    States accidentally overpaid thousands of workers over the spring and summer during a rush to get relief to unemployed and idled Americans. Now they want the money back.

    Funds have long since been spent and many of those workers continue to struggle with the coronavirus pandemic’s economic fallout. Partly due to federal rules governing some unemployment aid, multiple states are trying to recoup money or cutting current benefits to make up the difference.

    Individuals themselves often have no idea they are being overpaid, in part because formulas for unemployment checks can be hard to decipher. Many also waited weeks to start receiving benefits, and say they believed that large checks were simply the back payments they were owed because of delays.


    Autumn Stull owns a maternity and children’s consignment store in Golden, Colo. It temporarily closed in March when the state went into lockdown, so she applied for benefits through the Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program, which allows self-employed individuals to collect aid. She resumed operating in May by appointment, and returned the store to fully open after a gradual process that began in late June.

    The weekly checks helped Ms. Stull pay things such as rent and business insurance while her husband paid most of their personal expenses. Her check was cut in early September, from $618 a week to $223, and she discovered a notice on her account saying that she had been overpaid and now owed Colorado $8,972.

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    The state had added together her 2018 personal income, which was around $12,000, with her business income, and based her benefits on the higher sum, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. Colorado later acknowledged the overpayment and sent Ms. Stull an updated benefit statement listing her 2018 income as $0 and cutting the weekly payment.

    “Your heart skips a beat. Your stomach sinks. Your eyes get teary,” she says of reading the notice. “The money is gone. I used it. We’ve been through enough.”

    Consignment-store owner Autumn Stull applied for benefits through the Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program.
    Consignment-store owner Autumn Stull applied for benefits through the Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program.
    Cher Haavind, deputy executive director of the Colorado Department of Labor and Employment, says many overpayments stemmed from workers incorrectly reporting their earnings. Ms. Haavind didn’t reply to follow-up questions about alleged state errors.

    For many people, the repayment obligations hinge on a fine-print detail in the March Cares Act, which authorized the new programs.

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    States can waive recovery of overpayments for most unemployment insurance when there is no fraud involved, but the Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program follows a different set of rules. It is administered as a form of disaster relief, and the statute that guides it blocks states from forgiving the debts.

    SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

    Do you think enough is being done to support struggling Americans during the pandemic? Why, or why not? Join the conversation below.
    Adding to the complexity, the PUA program gave new categories of workers—including gig workers and the self-employed—access to unemployment checks. But state unemployment systems were designed to calculate benefits based on traditional jobs, employer records, W-2 tax documents and verifying income with pay stubs. Re-engineering the systems to account for far more complicated self-employment income was bound to create problems, experts say.

    “It makes sense that there would be mistakes made,” says Eliza Forsythe, a professor of economics and labor relations at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. But because states cannot waive the PUA overpayments, “that puts a lot of risk on benefit recipients down the line.”

    When Meggan Hurley, a self-employed health coach in Guffey, Colo., applied for the pandemic assistance, she submitted all of the income-tax forms the state requested. She spoke to several staffers at the state’s unemployment-insurance office, “just to make sure I was filing correctly, because it was intimidating,” she says.

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    Her checks began arriving soon after. They were larger than she expected, so she called the Department of Labor and Employment, and eventually got through to a staffer, who told her the amount was correct and “not to worry about it,” she says. In early September, a notice was placed on her account saying that she had been overpaid by $13,969.

    Related Video

    The U.S. unemployment rate shot up faster than in any other developed country during the pandemic. WSJ explains how differences in government aid and labor-market structures can help predict how and where jobs might recover. Video/Illustration: Jaden Urbi/WSJ

    “It was an error in your system. I submitted my information in good faith that you knew how to do math. You can’t place the burden of your error on me,” says Ms. Hurley. She has started a petition on Change.org asking Congress to allow states to waive the PUA overpayments.

    She and other affected workers might yet find relief. House Democrats’ latest version of the Heroes Act, introduced in late September, would allow states to waive PUA overpayments in cases where workers couldn’t repay them “without severe hardship.” The provision would apply to past and future overpayments.

    The Labor Department measures states’ performance in administering unemployment-insurance benefits, tracking metrics such as overpayment and the time it takes to process applications. So there is an incentive for states to recover money they erroneously paid out, says Michele Evermore, a senior policy analyst at the National Employment Law Project.

    Weekly pandemic-relief checks helped Autumn Stull pay things such as rent and business insurance.
    Weekly pandemic-relief checks helped Autumn Stull pay things such as rent and business insurance.
    But administrators generally don’t want to claw back benefits from struggling workers, she says. Forcing recipients to repay that money because of a glitch in federal legislation would create hostility toward the state unemployment agencies, she adds.

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    Thousands of Pennsylvania workers were overpaid because of a calculation error in software that vendor Geographic Solutions Inc. supplied for the state’s unemployment-benefits system. Paul Toomey, president of Geographic Solutions, says the company fixed the error immediately. After the state discovered the problem, it began cutting some benefit checks by half to repay the state, says Julia Simon-Mishel, an attorney with Philadelphia Legal Assistance who has been helping workers with unemployment claims.

    “We apologize to the claimants who received the extra payment and appreciate their understanding as we return their benefit to the accurate amount,” says Sarah DeSantis, a spokeswoman for Pennsylvania’s Department of Labor and Industry. The state is reducing the repayment rate to one-third of recipients’ PUA benefits, she adds.

    In Ohio, thousands of workers have been overpaid through the regular unemployment-benefits system and Pandemic Unemployment Assistance, says Michelle Wrona Fox, a staff attorney at Community Legal Aid Services in Youngstown, Ohio. For some of Ms. Fox’s clients, the state is docking their remaining benefits by half to recoup its money.

    “I’m seeing complete panic,” she says. Many of Ms. Fox’s clients waited two to three months to get benefits in the first place, she says, and some are facing eviction. “They’re in dire straits,” she adds.

    A spokesman for Ohio’s Department of Job and Family Services says about 20% of PUA claimants, or 108,000 people, had been overpaid as of Aug. 31 because of a combination of errors by the agency and claimants, but adds most of the errors arose from individuals failing to claim income they earned in weeks when they also received benefits.

    In a smaller number of cases, errors were made by agency staff, and those overpayments will be waived where possible, says the department’s spokesman, Tom Betti.

    “We understand the frustration overpayments cause during what is already a stressful time,” he says. “We are committed to doing everything we can to lessen those hardships within the bounds of state and federal law.”

  6. #29056
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    Quote Originally Posted by seano732 View Post
    NM going gangbuster....Over a thousand positive cases yesterday, and all the modeling shows us at ICU capacity November 8th. Fuck.
    Fuck.... what’s the mood like in the fire department? Do you think shutdown is coming?

  7. #29057
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post


    Trump has the CTE vote.
    Cunts, turds, and eunuchs?

  8. #29058
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    New Mexico
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    I mean, really, tell me the last time a great intellect left pro sports and did something smart with the rest of their lives. I know you'll find a few, but, it took you time, I'm sure.
    Kobe Bryant was doing good things in retirement but his life got cut short in a dumb accident... fuck 2020...

  9. #29059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    World hasn't seen a major pandemic since the 1918 flu. Before that, all sorts of outbreaks were common. And that's in a century that gave us air travel, when an infected person can be all the way on the other side of the world in a 24 hour period. A lot of people are complaining already about China's reaction to all this, but imagine if it was a hundred years ago without the WHO and modern communications. We'll see.
    I remember the WHO. Telling the world it was nothing to be concerned about along with a shit ton of other missinfomaton back in the beginning. When it mattered. They didn't even mention that China had locked down wuhan to the rest of China but not the rest of the world.

  10. #29060
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    Sep 2006
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    5,257
    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Paywall, can you C&P?

    Well fuck, after jumping through those hoops now I realize that wasn’t the original article I read anyway. Similar but, details. I don’t think this one is paywalled let me know.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/h...mployment-form

  11. #29061
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I do think deaths will increase substantially as we head into winter. Our current new cases trajectory doesn't show any evidence of flattening and we're only now getting into fall. I really don't see how we won't be at 100k cases per day within a few weeks.
    And here we go. 98,000 new cases today. I knew it was coming, but I didn't think it would be this quick.

  12. #29062
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    Dec 2005
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    3,951
    You didn’t hear? It’s just the doctors making up the cases for extra $. I mean not the doctors at Walter Reed or wherever Chris McCrispy was in the ICU but everywhere else.

  13. #29063
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    san diego
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideski View Post
    Well fuck, after jumping through those hoops now I realize that wasn’t the original article I read anyway. Similar but, details. I don’t think this one is paywalled let me know.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/h...mployment-form
    Pretty disgusting, especially when you hear about the flipside where some companies used PPP or other covid related funds to buy back shares or other things the money was not intended for, yet the agencies handing out that money seems to do nothing to get it back.

  14. #29064
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    Nov 2002
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    EWA
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    You didn’t hear? It’s just the doctors making up the cases for extra $. I mean not the doctors at Walter Reed or wherever Chris McCrispy was in the ICU but everywhere else.
    Trump baselessly claims doctors are inflating coronavirus death counts for money as cases again hit record levels
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  15. #29065
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    May 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?!? On the evening news I just heard Trump claim that doctors get $2000 for each coronavirus death they report. I wasn’t sure I heard right, but Twitter backs that up. WTF?

    Motherfucker!
    Well in all fairness $2k is small consolation for the doc. The patients are dead - it's not like they can wash dishes to pay down the exorbitant debt they've accrued for their treatment.

  16. #29066
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    Sep 2006
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    5,257
    Repost from early on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rideski View Post
    Well I guess this is the week Kevin Bacon’s covfefe came knocking on my door. Three different ex gf’s (that I hadn’t seen in a while) all got it this week. All young and healthy, non smokers. Super bummer that two of them have at risk parents. A fourth ex had her older brother drop dead at 38 years old from a heart anomaly. Otherwise apparently healthy. I know first hand from a healthy friend that died from the same thing that it can happen, but still, kinda rare, have to be a little suspicious. Buckle up.
    ]
    So now one of those people’s parents are sick, real shit show going there now. And two more unrelated people. One says their puppy is now sick. So total up to like 6 households and 9 people and a puppy so far just this week in my personal sphere. Good times.

  17. #29067
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    Feb 2005
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    You keep up with 4 ex's?

  18. #29068
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    Sep 2006
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    Way more than that, but yeah they’re cool people, why would I not?

  19. #29069
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    And here we go. 98,000 new cases today. I knew it was coming, but I didn't think it would be this quick.
    That's more than one per second.

  20. #29070
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    930
    This just oozed in under my radar


  21. #29071
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideski View Post
    Way more than that, but yeah they’re cool people, why would I not?
    There is something to be said for turning a page. But you be you. That's seems exhausting.

  22. #29072
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    Dec 2005
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    Watching over the valley
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    I remember the WHO. Telling the world it was nothing to be concerned about along with a shit ton of other missinfomaton back in the beginning. When it mattered. They didn't even mention that China had locked down wuhan to the rest of China but not the rest of the world.
    Really? Cause I would listen to npr on the drive to work each morning, and it sure as hell sounded serious to me, and the most frequent source of information was the who, and they were saying everybody better get ready because it's coming to a town near you. At work we talked about it, and before the first case showed up, the conservative idiots were saying it's nothing, just another hoax, it won't get us, blah blah blah, and i was saying, based on the numbers Ive been hearing driving to work, my back of the napkin math says that if we all get it, it's gonna kill half a million of us. And I explained my math, and assumptions. They are data guys, and they just didn't think it was going to get us. It was going to be fine. My news source was liberal fake news. That was china, it's different here. Now we are dying and it's different there. We all work from home, and I guarantee you the most vocal conservative guy with the gun for safety, the emergency radio, and loves trump, is not wearing a mask.

    This is who info published January 5th.
    https://www.who.int/csr/don/05-janua...ause-china/en/

    January 24th...
    Who publication. 860+ cases 25+ deaths. Person to person transmission is occurring. "WHO assesses the risk of this event to be very high in China, high at the regional level and high at the
    global level."

    January 26 who report
    "Of the 1,975 confirmed cases (excluding Hong Kong SAR, Macau SAR and Taipei), 324 cases have
    been reported as severely ill2
    .
    • Fifty-six deaths have been reported to date (52 deaths in Hubei province and 4 from outside
    Hubei).
    WHO’s assessment"

    "WHO assesses the risk of this event to be very high in China, high at the regional level and high at the
    global level."


    I heard numbers like this, and busted out the math at work.
    Do the math. From Jan 26 WHO report...
    56/1975=2.8% death rate. Let's assume that there are 330,000,000 americans. And let's assume that 20% of the population is infected and falls Ill enough to get tested and are positive. At 2.8% death rate, that is 1,848,000 dead americans. Now let's assume that we get better at treating it and death rate drops significantly. Let's say it drops to 1%. That is 660,000 dead americans. Conservative guys at work laughed at me. It won't happen here.

    January 30, Who declares Public health emergency of international concern.

    "The  Committee believes that it is still possible to interrupt virus spread, provided that countries put in place strong measures to detect disease early, isolate and treat cases, trace contacts, and promote social distancing measures commensurate with the risk. It is important to note that as the situation continues to evolve, so will the strategic goals and measures to prevent and reduce spread of the infection. The Committee agreed that the outbreak now meets the criteria for a Public Health Emergency of International Concern.

    Who February 1 update.
    Global Situation
    • A total of 9826 confirmed cases have been reported for novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) globally;
    • Of the 9826 cases reported, 9720 cases were reported from China, including Hong Kong SAR (12
    confirmed cases), Macau SAR (7 confirmed cases) and Taipei (9 confirmed cases).
    • There have been 106 confirmed cases outside of China from 19 countries.
    • 4 confirmed cases reported in United Arab Emirates, in individuals traveling from Wuhan City.
    • Today, the first two confirmed cases of 2019-nCoV acute respiratory disease were reported in
    Italy; both had travel history to Wuhan City.
    • 4 countries in the South East Asia Region have reported confirmed cases of nCoV – Thailand 14,
    Nepal 1, Sri Lanka 1 and India 1.
    • Of the 9720 confirmed cases in China, 1527 cases have been reported as severely ill and a total of
    213 deaths have been reported to date.


    If you couldn't see what was coming, you weren't paying attention. If you weren't paying attention, fine. But don't blame the WHO when it is really your shitty information sources (still reading infowars there buddy?) misinforming you.

    Fuck.



    sent from Utah.
    sigless.

  23. #29073
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    Dec 2005
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    3,951
    Blame Fox who had their main doctor (their version of Dr Sanjay Gupta) say in the first week of March that the WHO were alarmists and at worst this was just gonna be like the flu.

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