Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[bodywhomper]

And, as case numbers continue to increase, everyone not wearing a mask in places like retail stores and grocery stores is more and more likely to be covid+.

[BC.]

Anybody see Fauci throw out first pitch tonight at Yankees/Nationals game?

Do u really trust a guy that throws like this......or on the other hand...this is the type of guy you should trust about pandemics.....lol

https://youtu.be/VvFDufpVkDI

[AK47bp]

Christ almighty.

C’mon Fauci, get it together man.


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[muted]

Lifetime dream to look like a fool, that sucks.

[PB]

Geezer's 80 ears old; most of you fuckers won't be able to keep masticated food from falling out of you mouths if you somehow manage to beat the odds and reach that age.

[MontuckyFried]

Yeah I considered that but as I said... walking outside in 95 degree heat not even remotely close to people and for the record my mask was around my neck not on my chin.

Seriously, after the second stink-eye from a person on the other side of the street I thought "if it's THAT contagious we're in a shit load of trouble.

Consider yourself lucky. I've been seeing 112 with swampy coastal air round here lately. Wearing a mask all day/night at work here suuuuuuuuuuuuucks.

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[old goat]

I'm 70. My shoulders, especially the right are fucked. If I warmed up for an hour I might be able to get the ball from the mound to the plate. No way I can get the ball farther back than halfway between my nose and my ear. It would have to be all wrist.
Props to Fauci--someone with a fragile ego would have been practicing for weeks and probably would have perfected a wicked splitter. Fauci has more important things to do than practice throwing out the first pitch.

Looks like deaths in the EU have stopped falling and cases are rising, although both are still well below the US. Maybe victory declared too soon?

[hutash]

Not apples to apples, but hats off to all health care professionals dealing with this. I can barely imagine the stress levels these people have to deal with. I ha e been slammed professionally with case after case of difficult diagnostic and treatment dilemmas. It is massively stressful, and my patients are dogs and cats (but to many people this is equivalent to children.) To deal with this level of prolonged treatment and death has to take an immense toll on one's psyche. My MD just told me he has had 5 COVID-19 deaths, and we are not even in a hard hit area.

If this keeps up much longer, we are going to see a break down in the whole health care system for this disease. Believe me, we health care professionals can only take so much before we rip off all our clothes and run naked and screaming down the road.

I have to admit I have come close a few times, but managed to keep my pants on.

[Tri-Ungulate]

The 62% survival benefit of remdesivir is worth commenting on. The data comes from a Gilead study comparing treated patients to retrospective controls, so all or part of the benefit attributed to remdesivir could be due to the other improvements in care you cite. Furthermore, the 62% figure is RELATIVE risk reduction. The actual risk reduction was from 12.5% mortality to 7.6% mortality. I call that a 5% risk reduction. The news release citing the study did not comment on statistical significance. I wish relative risk reduction were banned from all medical publications. People use it to exaggerate the benefit of medical interventions. I would certainly want remdesivir if I had the Covid but 7% mortality isn't that great. (That's 7% mortality in a group who had severe disease.)

This. For the TL;DR crowd, the remdesivir "62% risk reduction" is not all that it's cracked up to be. That being said, we do welcome remdesivir to the clinical armamentum, and basically everyone in the COVID19 ward is getting it, along with dex and anticoagulation. These interventions, in part, along with others (wiser ventilation protocols, the fact that most if not all patients in larger centers are on some sort of clinical trial of one or more agents that we think might be helpful, including convalescent serum, etc. ) and a younger patient census appear to be driving lower mortality rates. But there's something else that hasn't been discussed here at length - for those unlucky enough to have significant symptomatology requiring hospitalization, up to and including ICU care, there's usually a backbreaking financial hit associated with said hospitalization, even for many insured patients. And that includes the a collective societal financial hit, as coverage for uninsured is not in the least bit trivial. I feel this is under appreciated.

[bodywhomper]

A few friends and i have talked about the cost of care for hospitalization. My wife and i are sitting on some petty cash (not much) for the first time in our lives and are talking about what to do. Pay off a chunk of principal from college loans, kids college $$, hold for cash down on house expansion/remodel, sit tight because there's chance we'll have big expense if we catch covid19, save with anticipation of economic collapse....

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[old goat]

Maybe when all this is over we will wind up with some kind of non-employer based, truly universal health care coverage. Maybe.
Health insurers and hospitals are going to need massive bailouts to keep from going under.

[rod9301]

Maybe when all this is over we will wind up with some kind of non-employer based, truly universal health care coverage. Maybe.
Health insurers and hospitals are going to need massive bailouts to keep from going under.

I hope you're right about the universal health care.

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[My Pet Powder Goat]

Does the anti-intellectual bent legislate schools take learning time away from the basics?

There's plenty of stupid shit being taught but other than a few southern school districts it isn't some weird conservative voodoo.

Is that so?

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/201...xtbooks-on-us/

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[gravitylover]

A few friends and i have talked about the cost of care for hospitalization. My wife and i are sitting on some petty cash (not much) for the first time in our lives and are talking about what to do. Pay off a chunk of principal from college loans, kids college $$, hold for cash down on house expansion/remodel, sit tight because there's chance we'll have big expense if we catch covid19, save with anticipation of economic collapse....

If the shit hits the fan and you end up with those huge medical Bill's because you got Covid your whole financial world will be fucked anyway so rather than paying things down now I'd lock it into some college thing for the kids. If you can't access it (easily) it probably wouldn't come into play to pay down the debt from the bills and the kids would at least have that going for them later.

[hutash]

A few friends and i have talked about the cost of care for hospitalization. My wife and i are sitting on some petty cash (not much) for the first time in our lives and are talking about what to do. Pay off a chunk of principal from college loans, kids college $$, hold for cash down on house expansion/remodel, sit tight because there's chance we'll have big expense if we catch covid19, save with anticipation of economic collapse....

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Hookers and blow, obviously.

[jono]

Question for those who know and those who don't: what's the over/under on months to vaccine approval? 8? 20? Never?

I intend to just start offering the nihilists a $100 bet on a vaccine every time one of them says we're all going to get it or whatever nonsense. If it goes away like a miracle then all vaccine efforts will cease and they'll win. Otherwise, free vaccinations and bikes for me and my family. I'll probably start with 2 years just to see how committed they are, but I could probably be talked into 14 months.

What's your number?

[Deebased]

30 months minimum.

Approval will probably happen sooner but manufacturing and administering 20 Billion doses or so globally is going to take several years to roll out.

[The AD]

Maybe when all this is over we will wind up with some kind of non-employer based, truly universal health care coverage. Maybe.

What are you? Some kind of commie?

[bodywhomper]

If the shit hits the fan and you end up with those huge medical Bill's because you got Covid your whole financial world will be fucked anyway so rather than paying things down now I'd lock it into some college thing for the kids. If you can't access it (easily) it probably wouldn't come into play to pay down the debt from the bills and the kids would at least have that going for them later.

Thx! That and some hutash recs makes sense.

[old goat]

Question for those who know and those who don't: what's the over/under on months to vaccine approval? 8? 20? Never?

I intend to just start offering the nihilists a $100 bet on a vaccine every time one of them says we're all going to get it or whatever nonsense. If it goes away like a miracle then all vaccine efforts will cease and they'll win. Otherwise, free vaccinations and bikes for me and my family. I'll probably start with 2 years just to see how committed they are, but I could probably be talked into 14 months.

What's your number?

we will have a vaccine approved by the FDA by Election Day, guaranteed. Whether anyone actually gets it by then I doubt. Whether it works, who knows.

[KQ]

If the shit hits the fan and you end up with those huge medical Bill's because you got Covid your whole financial world will be fucked anyway so rather than paying things down now I'd lock it into some college thing for the kids. If you can't access it (easily) it probably wouldn't come into play to pay down the debt from the bills and the kids would at least have that going for them later.

Or maybe you could get lucky:

'The manifestation of mercy,' church buys and forgives local medical debt

When The Rev. David Sibley’s congregation had the opportunity to put their money where their prayers are, they took it and ran with it.

On Wednesday, Sibley over-nighted a check from St. Paul’s Episcopal Church to New York for $21,000, a sum that will erase more than $2.125 million in outstanding medical debt for people in Walla Walla and Umatilla counties, and in other parts of Eastern Washington.

That process will happen through a nonprofit organization called “RIP Medical Debt,” an agency founded in 2014 by two former debt collectors.

Craig Antico and Jerry Ashton used their career expertise to create a way to forgive medical debt, a problem adding up to about $1 trillion in America, they say on their website.

As in the manner of medical debt collection agencies, the men decided to use donations to buy large bundles of medical debt, then forgive that debt with no tax consequences to donors or recipients, according to RIP’s website.

So far, that model has wiped out $1,396,496,786 in medical debts for more than 650,000 people, the organization said.

It works this way, according to Sibley — people end up in a medical situation out of their control and rack up thousands of dollars and more in debt, either through a lack of health insurance or inadequate coverage.

A medical provider, such as a hospital, will try to collect that debt for a time, Sibley explained. When that fails, the provider attempts to recoup some of its loss by selling the debt to a collection agency for pennies on the dollar.

“Then that debt collector has the ability to go after that debt they’ve purchased, for often 1/100th of the face value,” he said.

As anyone with long-standing medical debt knows, the tactic used to get people to pay can be aggressive and persistent, he pointed out.

“People can get trapped in paying this amount off for years and years, when behind the scene that debt has been sold many times over, to creditor after creditor,” for a sliver of the face value, Sibley said.

The pastor said his own family got a taste of how medical costs can escalate last Thanksgiving when his wife ended up in an emergency room with an ulcer.

The bill, which was covered by their insurance except for $200, totaled more than $12,000.

“That was for an ultrasound, a CT scan and not much else,” Sibley recalled.

“The burden of medical care is a growing crisis in this country. A person’s life can be turned upside down by something out of their control.”

St. Paul’s congregation decided local medical debt — especially as the COVID-19 pandemic is hitting some people hard both medically and through income loss — is an area it could impact.

Sibley got in touch with RIP Medical Debt.

“We said we want to run a campaign, buy everything you can buy in Walla Walla and Umatilla, and then radiate out. It could reach as far as Spokane,” he said.

The church launched “The Jubilee Campaign,” in early June to fund the effort.

“In the Bible, the law of Moses made every seventh year a jubilee, in which prisoners were freed, debts were forgiven and people would see a visible manifestation of the mercy and grace of God,” Sibley said in a news release.

“When Jesus began his public ministry, he proclaimed that he had come to proclaim the jubilee year — the year of the Lord’s favor.”

The giving campaign is one small part of carrying on that ministry, he added.

The goal was to raise $15,000, with every dollar able to wipe out $100 of debt, at a time St. Paul’s members are unable to meet together, Sibley said.

People here and around the country contributed, in donations from $10 to $5,000, surpassing the goal by another $6,000.

“I really couldn’t be prouder of the congregation for this effort,” he said Wednesday.

“As Christians, when we are generous to the world around us without concern for our own needs, it’s an act of faith. It does show God to people.”

St. Paul’s money doesn’t erase all medical debt in the two counties, only debts that have gone to collectors, Sibley said, adding his church will never know who or how many were helped.

As for those who are helped, they will receive notice their medical bill has been cleared, he said.

St. Paul’s donations can give those folks back a measure of control, the pastor said.

“I think that is something a lot of us are looking for now.”

[jono]

30 months minimum.

Approval will probably happen sooner but manufacturing and administering 20 Billion doses or so globally is going to take several years to roll out.

Approval is the only definable goal I'm willing to put money on--not interested in letting it get squishy so some bozo can start moving the goalposts.

[Tri-Ungulate]

we will have a vaccine approved by the FDA by Election Day, guaranteed. Whether anyone actually gets it by then I doubt. Whether it works, who knows.

Exactly. The administration will ram through approval of a vaccine with a very low bar for safety or efficacy, so Drumpf can declare "victory" over COVID19.

[wooley12]

If you think that the anti makers will line up for a shot developed by the government I'd like some of what you're smoking.

[muted]

I asked everyone about how many people get real sick but don't go to the hospital a few pages ago, and in relation to that here's an example of a group of ultra-fit people who got it and how they reacted: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/s...-olympics.html

I'm guessing almost all 33 were exposed and guessing maybe 20? 25? got it. They know for sure 12 had it with symptoms. A few of them got their ass kicked by it. There are very very few people as fit as these women, who all were trying to be at their peak fitness right before the Olympics.