Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[hutash]

I thought he video tweeted last night?

Next installment of One Flew Over Cuckoos Nest?
- disclaimer I never made it through that movie.

Hint: It doesn't end well, nor will this.

[Rideski]

Jack Nicholson though what a powerhouse eh?

[PB]

This is fascinating. How the 1918 virus started WWII.

From WAPO

John M. Barry is the author of “The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History” and is a professor at the Tulane University School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine.

Once before a president has been infected by a pandemic virus, and the precedent is both similar and concerning.

In March 1919, the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that in Paris “the epidemic of influenza which had declined has broken out anew in a most disquieting manner.” President Woodrow Wilson was there then negotiating the peace treaty to end World War I. Several members of the American delegation got influenza, and, like covid-19, influenza can be transmitted before symptoms appear.

On Thursday, April 3, Wilson suddenly fell ill. White House physician Cary Grayson noted he was seized by “violent paroxysms of coughing, which were so severe and frequent that it interfered with his breathing,” followed by such other symptoms as high fever. Grayson tried to keep the illness secret, but word leaked out that Wilson was sick, and Grayson lied, insisting Wilson simply had a bad cold. Afraid of another leak, Grayson wrote a note to be hand-delivered to Wilson’s chief of staff which said, “That night was one of the worst through which I have ever passed. I was able to control the spasms of coughing but his condition looked very serious.”

Today, as coronavirus cases are beginning to surge again, President Trump has been infected and we have a White House less than forthright about his condition. In fairness, other administrations have also hidden the truth about a president’s health, but more concerning than lack of candor are the potential effects of the virus. Like the 1918 virus, SARS-CoV-2 impacts virtually every organ in the body, including the brain. Most worrisome are cardiovascular and neurological impacts.

For covid-19, cardiovascular complications including stroke are so common that some experts consider this, and not the lung, the primary problem. And according to a study in Annals of Neurology, 25 percent of patients have some neurological dysfunction, and 7 percent have “impaired consciousness.” Another study in Clinical Neurology and Neurosurgery found 36.4 percent of patients to have neurological symptoms.

In 1918, it was much the same. Autopsies found the heart muscle itself often “relaxed and flabby, offering a strong contrast to the firm, contracted left ventricle nearly always present in post-mortem in bodies of patients dying from lobar pneumonia.” And the single most comprehensive study of the 1918 pandemic concluded — a conclusion shared by every study — “The effect of the influenza virus on the nervous system is hardly second to its effect on the respiratory tract. … From the delirium accompanying many acute attacks to the psychoses that develop as ‘post-influenzal’ manifestations, there is no doubt that the neuropsychiatric effects of influenza are profound.”

For Wilson, and the world, the effects were indeed profound. He became paranoid, convinced he was being spied on. Said one aide, “Something queer was happening in his mind. One thing was certain: he was never the same after this.” Another worried that “he could not remember without an effort what” had happened just a few hours earlier. Herbert Hoover believed Wilson’s mind lost “resiliency” and its ability to reason clearly “in coming to conclusions.”

Nonetheless, after five days in bed and too ill to go out, Wilson insisted on rejoining the peace negotiations. British and French Prime Ministers David Lloyd George and Georges Clemenceau — whose nickname was “the tiger” — came to his room. They too found a different man. Lloyd George commented on Wilson’s “nervous and spiritual breakdown in the middle of the Conference.”

Nothing in Wilson’s prior history suggests he would compromise on any principle, and before his illness, he had insisted upon “peace without victory” and supporting self-determination around the world.

But over the next few days, he gave way on almost every point to Clemenceau and agreed to a peace deal that punished Germany and preserved other nations’ imperial ambitions. John Maynard Keynes called Wilson “the greatest fraud on earth.” A Wilson aide resigned in a blistering letter, saying, “Our government has consented now to deliver the suffering peoples of the world to new oppressions, subjections, and dismemberments—a new century of war.”

Heard an NPR interview with Barry a month or so ago, agree. The Treaty to end WWI has always been portrayed as laying the foundation for WWII, but the Spanish Flu's role is stunning.

If trump staggers out of Reed to have a last second "Summit meeting" with Kim or Vlad in a desperate attempt to win the election, we're righteously F'd.

[PB]

Given Karma's stunning comeback, it stands to reason that Trump's little sojourn will result in disastrous consequences for all involved.

[wooley12]

Riders in the limo wearing N95's. Short joy ride. Swing and a miss by the MSM. IMO.

[abraham]

I thought he video tweeted last night?

Next installment of One Flew Over Cuckoos Nest?
- disclaimer I never made it through that movie.

With his coughs edited out I think

[old goat]

I thought he video tweeted last night?

Next installment of One Flew Over Cuckoos Nest?
- disclaimer I never made it through that movie.

The book is worth reading. I wouldn't have picked Nicholson for that part. Kesey was a good writer before it all went to pot and acid. Sometimes a Great Notion was an excellent book as well; Paul Newman as a hard ass logger in the movie not so much.

Re WWII--one could say the same thing for a sick Roosevelt at Yalta and the Cold War--at least the USSR might have wound up with less if Roosevelt had been on his game. A sick President trying to tough it out is doing nobody any favors. I do have to laugh about Trump working in his hospital suite. I guess that means he has cable.

[Name Redacted]

I thought he video tweeted last night?

Next installment of One Flew Over Cuckoos Nest?
- disclaimer I never made it through that movie.

Just watched it last night. We're fucked.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Riders in the limo wearing N95's. Short joy ride. Swing and a miss by the MSM. IMO.

Try to pay attention to the big picture here.

[old goat]

We have strict criteria for the use of dexamethasone and remdesivir at my hospital. A five day course of remdesivir is used in patients requiring supplemental oxygen. Ventilated patients receive a ten day course.
Given his age, body habitus and the fact he’s male I would not be surprised if he ended up intubated.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Trump's saturation dropped to 93%. Given his body, I wouldn't be surprised if that's a routine number for him if he's lying flat on his back. (If he can lie flat on his back.)

[wooley12]

Shotgun seat has a N95. That's legit protection and all I can see. He had to show himself as prez. Tradition.

[SkiBall]

Trump feeding his ego. Tradition,

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Shotgun seat has a N95. That's legit protection and all I can see. He had to show himself as prez. Tradition.

You can't be helped if you think this was anything near acceptable behavior. It's insanity. The whole administration has been reduced to a reality show to feed his constant need of cult like attention and adoration.

[Name Redacted]

It interesting that we have collectively committed to thinking that masks prevent the wearer from contracting the virus now. Wasn't it at one point "Wear a Mask to Prevent Transmission to Others"? Seems like a simple concept, but no one was biting, so now it is just "Wear a Fucking Mask and You Won't Catch it"...

[abraham]

From the last I've seen there's been evidence that wearing a mask reduces the severity of getting sick if you get it, possibly connected to reducing the initial amount of virus one's exposed to.

[Name Redacted]

From the last I've seen there's been evidence that wearing a mask reduces the severity of getting sick if you get it, possibly connected to reducing the initial amount of virus one's exposed to.

And I don't disagree with that, but the way the message has evolved over time is interesting. It actually started out as "Don't wear a Mask, it isn't Necessary". The evolution is pretty interesting really.

[Lawless]

Were these guys in the limo as well?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[The SnowShow]

Trump's saturation dropped to 93%. Given his body, I wouldn't be surprised if that's a routine number for him if he's lying flat on his back. (If he can lie flat on his back.)

His doc even said his saturation didn’t fall into the low 80s. I took that as he was in the upper 80s at one point.

[old goat]

Shotgun seat has a N95. That's legit protection and all I can see. He had to show himself as prez. Tradition.

[basinbeater]

I just watched the south park pandemic special. Pretty damn funny start to finish.

sent from Utah.

[Mr. Mike]

He was never an ordinary citizen. Even if he had one iota of self-awareness, he still wouldn't truly understand what not getting a 99 yard head start in life would've been like.

This. Bastard will never get the concept of what it is like to live in the part of the us where losing the benefit of something like the aca would alter the course of ones life is like.

[Rideski]

Damn, beaten by half an hour. Trump would not be proud.
I went to the effort of making a meme though.

[riser4]

It interesting that we have collectively committed to thinking that masks prevent the wearer from contracting the virus now. Wasn't it at one point "Wear a Mask to Prevent Transmission to Others"? Seems like a simple concept, but no one was biting, so now it is just "Wear a Fucking Mask and You Won't Catch it"...

You don't really pay attention, do you?

[wooley12]

Most of our laws are made to protect the rest of society from people as dense as Nameless Name.

[hutash]

Masks and PPE in general are the best, practical method of reducing, not elimination infection. All the PPE the SS used certainly helped reduce their risk, but did not eliminate it. Not getting in the fucking car with Typhood Mary would have eliminated it.

No competent person said wearing masks was wrong. The recommendations have changed as knowledge has evolved, and more importantly PPE became more available. If public health came out and said everybody should wear a mask, there would have been no masks for the frontline health professionals. Any of us who have had any sort of infectious disease control or public health lectures, and there are quite a few of us here, knows masks work. When this first got started I knew of people in COVID wards that had minimal PPE, including one mask a week.