Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[The AD]

Masks aren't doing shit for a teacher in a room with the same 20-30 people for 6 hours a day. MIT or just you know, your own brain can tell you this:

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/17/e2018995118

Meanwhile it has drastic effects on their mental health

How does wearing a mask have "drastic effects" on anyone's mental health?

[Adolf Allerbush]

Our kids and every kid at there school seem to do just fine with their masks on. It's literally not an issue for any of them...it's only an issue for some of the parents.

[Benny Profane]

Everybody knows fat fucks have health problems. Like any part of this debate the same 10 people keep perpetuating the fear. I’ve never seen a more prolific example of virtue signaling in my life than with anything COVID related.

Meanwhile, even the Times is throwing up warning flags about the kids. Parents other than the 10 posters here are over the bullshit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/04/b...sultPosition=2

And he really doesn't emphasize the class divide of this damage. The upper middle class kids in my town are damaged, but hardly as much as an inner city Baltimore or Boston kid. The children of my town are supported by an army of Tiger Moms with all sorts of money and resources and, most important, time, to deal with this shit.

[Benny Profane]

How does wearing a mask have "drastic effects" on anyone's mental health?

How about a stupid plastic barrier around the desk that probably actually does more harm by impeding overall air circulation, but makes the faculty and adminastration feel as if they're actually doing something.

[Adolf Allerbush]

And he really doesn't emphasize the class divide of this damage. The upper middle class kids in my town are damaged, but hardly as much as an inner city Baltimore or Boston kid. The children of my town are supported by an army of Tiger Moms with all sorts of money and resources and, most important, time, to deal with this shit.

WTF are you talking about. The kids in your town are damaged from having to wear a fucking mask to school? JHFC, we are a nation of pansies.

[Benny Profane]

Why are you fixated on masks? How about sports, to name just one. Millions of kids have had no sports for two years.

[schuss]

Masks aren't doing shit for a teacher in a room with the same 20-30 people for 6 hours a day. MIT or just you know, your own brain can tell you this:

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/17/e2018995118

Meanwhile it has drastic effects on their mental health, nevermind the speech and language issues I already spoke about.

PS, show me where I was anti-vaccine. Its the only thing that helps and beyond that people need to get on with living.

Again - kids don't really give a shit about masks - nor is there long term clear evidence it's impacting those things (masks alone). That said - it can limit it to one class versus everyone. It also sets meaningful precedent for kids wearing them inside in other venues, which again meaningfully contributes to risk and infection reduction (which will keep them in school).

And again - how do you solve the operational shortages that result from wide-scale opening with no masks? Just shut up if all you're going to do is bitch rather than offer solutions.

[AdironRider]

How does wearing a mask have "drastic effects" on anyone's mental health?

Yeah let's just eliminate a major element of social interaction (facial expressions) and say it won't have negative effects. You can't possibly say it is easier or better to interact with people with a mask on. This doesn't require an Ivy league study to prove this.

And Adolf/Schuss, the CDC, the Times, fuck even SumJong's kid, are all literally telling us it is literally an issue for them. The issue is you can't admit you are wrong and the requirements being placed on kids are doing way more harm than good.

[old goat]

How does wearing a mask have "drastic effects" on anyone's mental health?

I wore a mask at work for 35 years, which proves the point. Whose point it proves I guess is for you all to decide.

Why are you fixated on masks? How about sports, to name just one. Millions of kids have had no sports for two years.

Tens of millions of kids have had no sports for a lot longer than that, due to video games.

Again - kids don't really give a shit about masks - nor is there long term clear evidence it's impacting those things (masks alone). That said - it can limit it to one class versus everyone. It also sets meaningful precedent for kids wearing them inside in other venues, which again meaningfully contributes to risk and infection reduction (which will keep them in school).

And again - how do you solve the operational shortages that result from wide-scale opening with no masks? Just shut up if all you're going to do is bitch rather than offer solutions.

I see kids walking home from school all the time wearing masks--not because they're worried about catching the covid but because wearing a mask is a habit for them and they don't even notice. Plus, its hard to lose the mask Aunt Alice gave you for xmas if it's on your face.

The answer for dealing with operational shortages in schools and for protecting the health of teachers is simple. School without teachers.

[altasnob]

The harm of having kids, particularly young kids, wearing masks is widely accepted today. I initially had my 3 year old wearing a mask at day care but then stopped after reading the article below. The day care is now asking kids older than 3 to mask up due to Omicron, which is fine. I have no problem with having kids wearing masks when there are waves. But in general, there are draw backs to continued masking in schools.

The Downsides of Masking Young Students Are Real
The educational cost of face coverings is far better established than the benefits of mandates.
Vinay Prasad, professor of epidemiology and biostatistics at UC San Francisco.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...wnside/619952/

[The AD]

Yeah let's just eliminate a major element of social interaction (facial expressions) and say it won't have negative effects. You can't possibly say it is easier or better to interact with people with a mask on. This doesn't require an Ivy league study to prove this.

No, I think it does. I don't think it's "easier or better." but I don't think it's as big a deal as you make it out to be, either.

[altasnob]

I'm not as worried about my kids dying from COVID as I am from them developing long-haul or having lifelong lung damage. AR, instead of binary thinking (dead vs. not dead) consider having a more nuanced view. thanks

I've repeated this often, but 40% of Earth is supposed to get Omicron in the next couple of months. We need to realize that we are all going to get COVID in our lifetimes. And for those of us with kids under 5 and no vaccine in sight, they are going to get COVID without any protection from vaccines. Not saying there are not dangers, both short and long term, from COVID. But at some point, we have to accept the reality.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Why are you fixated on masks? How about sports, to name just one. Millions of kids have had no sports for two years.

Because AR keeps going on and on about masks and you seemed to agree with him for some idiotic reason.

I'll tell you our experience with sports over the last two years. I have two boys and both had to skip baseball that first spring after the pandemic started. Our ski season was also cut slightly short that first year of the pandemic. Other than that it's been business as usual. Kids played football or soccer, currently playing basketball, played baseball last spring, skied a shitload. So, yeah, i don't necessarily agree with your take...but you don't have kids so how would you know?

AR, I asked you this before, do you have children? If not, you don't know what you're talking about.

I've repeated this often, but 40% of Earth is supposed to get Omicron in the next couple of months. We need to realize that we are all going to get COVID in our lifetimes. And for those of us with kids under 5 and no vaccine in sight, they are going to get COVID without any protection from vaccines. Not saying there are not dangers, both short and long term, from COVID. But at some point, we have to accept the reality.

Absolutely. But what AR is advocating for is essentially throwing up our arms and saying fuck it. I think that's a dumb move and I'd like to continue at a minimum wearing masks when it's prudent to do so. It's really not hard...it's not a problem for the kids...it's only a problem for some of the parents, at least that's been my experience.

No, I think it does. I don't think it's "easier or better." but I don't think it's as big a deal as you make it out to be, either.

this, 100%

The harm of having kids, particularly young kids, wearing masks is widely accepted today. I initially had my 3 year old wearing a mask at day care but then stopped after reading the article below. The day care is now asking kids older than 3 to mask up due to Omicron, which is fine. I have no problem with having kids wearing masks when there are waves. But in general, there are draw backs to continued masking in schools.

The Downsides of Masking Young Students Are Real
The educational cost of face coverings is far better established than the benefits of mandates.
Vinay Prasad, professor of epidemiology and biostatistics at UC San Francisco.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...wnside/619952/

Sorry, I missed this one. Yes, I've read that article before. That's totally understandable and I get it...but the article fails to acknowledge the purpose of masking in schools...to stop the spread of the virus to the extent practicable. I don't know about your schools, sounds like your kids in pre-K, so maybe you have only young super healthy teachers....my kids school is not like that...many of the teachers are old and I assume have some underlying health issues. What AR and others are saying is "fuck it, let them get it and they can get sick because it's hard to talk with a mask on". I think that's very selfish and stupid.

[skiJ]

So remind me how mask mandates prevent kids from going to school. Or vaccine mandates. Go ahead. I'll wait.
The biggest thing closing schools here is lack of staff. Why is there a lack of staff? Because they either get COVID or don't want to deal with the batshit insane antivax parents any more. Or they died of COVID. Masks and vaccinations reduce that, and a school board or administration with the nuts to tell antivaxxers to go fuck themselves because they're endangering teachers (you know, the people there needs to be a minimum number of for a school to open?) is one that people will work for. I know multiple teachers that just retired last year as they were so tired of dealing with shitty parents about masking when the kids don't give a shit.

Please tell me your proposal for opening schools that has an actual factual basis that allows them to remain open. Your bandying about of unrelated stats isn't actually helping your case. All you're doing is screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" while doing none of the legwork around "what does it take to open, staff and run a school in a way that's sustainable with pandemic risks?"
There's no magic wands man, you gotta actually do the work that's not five minute facebook research, but meaningful ops research and practices.

Excellent post.

Thank you. tj

[AdironRider]

I think it has become a big deal after years of it. If this was a 2 week hey mask up its getting dicey out there scenario I'd buy it and did several times already. But that ship has long since sailed and the negative effects are becoming a much bigger problem. You cannot eliminate a major component of social interaction for what is now approaching the majority of any child under 5's life and think it isn't a big deal.

[AdironRider]

Because AR keeps going on and on about masks and you seemed to agree with him for some idiotic reason.

I'll tell you our experience with sports over the last two years. I have two boys and both had to skip baseball that first spring after the pandemic started. Our ski season was also cut slightly short that first year of the pandemic. Other than that it's been business as usual. Kids played football or soccer, currently playing basketball, played baseball last spring, skied a shitload. So, yeah, i don't necessarily agree with your take...but you don't have kids so how would you know?

AR, I asked you this before, do you have children? If not, you don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah I do, and I see the effects daily.

And I don't think you need to be a parent to be outraged that an entire generation is getting fucked because adults can't admit they are wrong.

At this point get the vaccine and yeah, move the fuck on. Two years in and you think masks are going to solve the problem still? Quit being obtuse. Benny isn't wrong. This is still a thing because people like you don't want this to end at this point.

[Benny Profane]

Because AR keeps going on and on about masks and you seemed to agree with him for some idiotic reason.

I'll tell you our experience with sports over the last two years. I have two boys and both had to skip baseball that first spring after the pandemic started. Our ski season was also cut slightly short that first year of the pandemic. Other than that it's been business as usual. Kids played football or soccer, currently playing basketball, played baseball last spring, skied a shitload. So, yeah, i don't necessarily agree with your take...but you don't have kids so how would you know?

AR, I asked you this before, do you have children? If not, you don't know what you're talking about.



Absolutely. But what AR is advocating for is essentially throwing up our arms and saying fuck it. I think that's a dumb move and I'd like to continue at a minimum wearing masks when it's prudent to do so. It's really not hard...it's not a problem for the kids...it's only a problem for some of the parents, at least that's been my experience.



this, 100%

It's not saying fuck it. Its recognizing that we are going way overboard with school restrictions, and doing much more harm than good. The kids are not dying, or even getting seriously sick.

[ex-powderbroker]

declaring suicides to be up is a straw man without any evidence but if anyone wanted to do something about suicides they can advocate for gun control. taking away the means of suicide is the most impactful way to control it.

[Smoova]

Check out these case counts by state:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...TwXcKUazV9rYyc

Hospital stats are also interesting: https://www.npr.org/944379919

[AdironRider]

The CDC says you are full of shit ML.

Or you could just stop imposing COVID restrictions that aren't doing anything but harm. But yeah, lets use COVID to get political causes we support through instead because it is a useful tool. Way to illustrate Benny's point.

[altasnob]

Seattle area schools were supposed to start back up in person yesterday but most canceled so that kids could voluntarily come in and get tested before starting back in person today. I hear the test centers were swamped yesterday and a lot of kids were sent home with no test. It will be very interesting how things play out with in person schools nationwide in the next month. We're still trying to play by the old rules. One kid gets Omicron in a class, shut down the class for a week and tell everyone to isolate. Parents are forced to take the week off from work to watch their kid. Country shuts down. This is not going to work with Omicron.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Yeah I do, and I see the effects daily.

And I don't think you need to be a parent to be outraged that an entire generation is getting fucked because adults can't admit they are wrong.

At this point get the vaccine and yeah, move the fuck on. Two years in and you think masks are going to solve the problem still? Quit being obtuse. Benny isn't wrong. This is still a thing because people like you don't want this to end at this point.

you and Benny are wrong...because you're only thinking about one facet of the pandemic and use of masks. Again, the kids do not give a flying fuck about wearing a mask...it's literally not an issue...it's only an issue for some parents. That's a fact. I never claimed masking would "solve" the pandemic. Stop lying. I think it can help in some cases and is a prudent mitigation measure.

It's not saying fuck it. Its recognizing that we are going way overboard with school restrictions, and doing much more harm than good. The kids are not dying, or even getting seriously sick.

I really don't see how you have any frame of understanding of what is overboard for kids when you don't have kids, never have had kids, have not had to raise kids during a pandemic, etc. You read an article geared to generate clicks on a website to come to a conclusion about something you have no personal knowledge/experience in. Maybe keep to other topics in this case.

AR, we're just going to have to agree to disagree...I think masks help to keep the older teachers and those with underlying health issues safer in schools. You seem to think we should just let them die or get sick...I don't agree. I also think masks can help keep the virus from spreading somewhat. I'm into that idea.

And don't get me wrong, I don't want to do this forever, but when COVID is going absolutely ape shit I think wearing a mask is a prudent mitigation measure.

[The AD]

Or you could just stop imposing COVID restrictions that aren't doing anything but harm.

Just because you keep saying this doesn't make it true, you know.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Seattle area schools were supposed to start back up in person yesterday but most canceled so that kids could voluntarily come in and get tested before starting back in person today. I hear the test centers were swamped yesterday and a lot of kids were sent home with no test. It will be very interesting how things play out with in person schools nationwide in the next month. We're still trying to play by the old rules. One kid gets Omicron in a class, shut down the class for a week and tell everyone to isolate. Parents are forced to take the week off from work to watch their kid. Country shuts down. This is not going to work with Omicron.

That's a lot different than where I live. If one kid gets COVID the whole class does not "shut down". The kid isolates at home and if your kid is vaccinated and they don't have symptoms they continue on as usual. If they're unvaccinated they have to do some testing stuff or isolate for a while. Yeah, your situation doesn't seem workable with Omicron.

[AdironRider]

you and Benny are wrong...because you're only thinking about one facet of the pandemic and use of masks. Again, the kids do not give a flying fuck about wearing a mask...it's literally not an issue...it's only an issue for some parents. That's a fact. I never claimed masking would "solve" the pandemic. Stop lying. I think it can help in some cases and is a prudent mitigation measure.



I really don't see how you have any frame of understanding of what is overboard for kids when you don't have kids, never have had kids, have not had to raise kids during a pandemic, etc. You read an article geared to generate clicks on a website to come to a conclusion about something you have no personal knowledge/experience in. Maybe keep to other topics in this case.

AR, we're just going to have to agree to disagree...I think masks help to keep the older teachers and those with underlying health issues safer in schools. You seem to think we should just let them die or get sick...I don't agree.

They have known the effects of facial recognition in children for decades.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00641052

You (along with AD) are the one that has not brought anything to the table other that "I want this to continue so you are wrong" as an argument. Meanwhile I have pointed to the CDC, the largest news source in the world, MIT, and other sources saying exactly otherwise but sure, "lets agree to disagree" on masks in schools after years of data, both anecdotal and factually proving otherwise.