Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[Mofro261]

which question was stupid and why?

Asking about vaccine ingredients? Questioning if there is corruption in science? Questioning authority in general?

let's put this in terms of something you may understand, Gasoline. Is gasoline an ingredient in oil? No, it is a product refined from oil. What does refinement do? It removes the impurities. Likewise, what ends up in a vaccine is refined to remove the parts that are not necessary, ie whatever cell line is used to produce them.

The HEK cells are used as production factories because they have been selected over time to be immortalized- meaning they can contiue to replicate indefinitely so we don't have to continue to go back to the starting source material to obtain more of them (continued harvest of fetal tissue), whereas"normal" cells have a finite lifespan- they die after a limited number of cell divisions.

But the question of "what's in a vaccine?" needs a clarifier of WHAT vaccine are we talking about?

For COVID-19 vaccines, those that involve live virus need a cell line to replicate in, because we can't grind up people to get the material. The virus is "refined" or separated from the cells and other growth related components through a process called "purification." We really don't want to inject human cell material into us, this can lead to immune responses against that material as well which in turn can lead to what is known as "auto-immunity" where the immune system attacks our own tissues.

But most of the front runner vaccines for COVID-19, those based on RNA, DNA, or some type of vectored approach, are not made in a mammalian cell lines at all. They are propagated in bacteria and then purified. This is genrally a lot cheaper and much faster as bacteria will double every ~90 minutes, while those cell lines have a doubling time 18-30hrs.

Protein based or subunit vaccines may be made in any variety of cells- mammalian, insect, plant, bacteria. Again, the material is purified away from whatever type of cells are used to produce it.

I'll leave adjuvants for another post.

Now, tell me what profession/job/ industry is NOT corrupt?
Notice that anywhere there are dollars to be made there will be corruption? Do you have these same questions your energy company? Your bank? Your police? Your schools? Your news source? Your trademen? Your faith healer? Your food supply?

Now is everyone corrupt, or is it just a subset of bad apples that lack principle and a moral code? Are you corrupt? Do you cheat on your taxes? Do you overbill your clients? Do you fudge your timecard?

If Science/Education/Technology/Government all have elements of corruption because they impose limits on your personal freedoms, then at it's very nature you are arguing for your personal freedom to be corrupt.

[neufox47]

Can one of the pharma bros or scientist maggots please tell me why we have been injecting our kids with abortion stew?

Will they be chopping up unborn babies to inject into us for a covid vaccine, or is that just for the kids?

Seriously though, since I am not a scientist, can you tell me how abortion parts injected into the body are good for you?

These are all stupid questions, designed to inflame emotions and get people to mistrust vaccines.

Be smarter and don’t come to an argument in bad faith then complain you weren’t respected.

Here’s an example. Why are you trying to kill people with compromised immunity that rely upon herd immunity? I’m just asking questions bro.

[old goat]

Does that 10X higher unreported infection rate mean the fatality rate is actually 1/10 what they thought it was?

There's 126K dead. Is that enough for you?

[funkendrenchman]

The fact that Pence has "guidelines" listed up on screen during his briefing that DO NOT include wearing a mask in public is unconscionable. I just can't understand why they have chosen to make a mask, which is easy to wear and reduces spread, an issue to hang their hat on. FFS. The lack of leadership from our federal government is appalling.

Attachment 332687

On the other hand, Biden said he'd make face masks manadatory.

[::: :::]

don’t come to an argument in bad faith then complain you weren’t respected

well stated

[ncskier]

100% illogical whataboutism and false

What is false. You believe wearing a mask in infringing on your rights? I am arguing its the complete opposite. The government is begging and now mandating wearing masks to keep places open. Even allowing you to wear a mask in places that in the past were totally off limits. Infringing on you is welding you shut in your apartments or forcing those places to close again.

[simple]

Feels like a melt down in here and out there. Can we all just shut the fuck up already and chill?

[Mofro261]

Reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2
Science 26 Jun 2020:

Respiratory infections occur through the transmission of virus-containing droplets (>5 to 10 µm) and aerosols (≤5 µm) exhaled from infected individuals during breathing, speaking, coughing, and sneezing. Traditional respiratory disease control measures are designed to reduce transmission by droplets produced in the sneezes and coughs of infected individuals. However, a large proportion of the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) appears to be occurring through airborne transmission of aerosols produced by asymptomatic individuals during breathing and speaking (1—3). Aerosols can accumulate, remain infectious in indoor air for hours, and be easily inhaled deep into the lungs. For society to resume, measures designed to reduce aerosol transmission must be implemented, including universal masking and regular, widespread testing to identify and isolate infected asymptomatic individuals.


Humans produce respiratory droplets ranging from 0.1 to 1000 µm. A competition between droplet size, inertia, gravity, and evaporation determines how far emitted droplets and aerosols will travel in air (4, 5). Larger respiratory droplets will undergo gravitational settling faster than they evaporate, contaminating surfaces and leading to contact transmission. Smaller droplets and aerosols will evaporate faster than they can settle, are buoyant, and thus can be affected by air currents, which can transport them over longer distances. Thus, there are two major respiratory virus transmission pathways: contact (direct or indirect between people and with contaminated surfaces) and airborne inhalation.


In addition to contributing to the extent of dispersal and mode of transmission, respiratory droplet size has been shown to affect the severity of disease. For example, influenza virus is more commonly contained in aerosols with sizes below 1 µm (submicron), which lead to more severe infection (4). In the case of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), it is possible that submicron virus-containing aerosols are being transferred deep into the alveolar region of the lungs, where immune responses seem to be temporarily bypassed. SARS-CoV-2 has been shown to replicate three times faster than SARS-CoV-1 and thus can rapidly spread to the pharynx, from which it can be shed before the innate immune response becomes activated and produces symptoms (6). By the time symptoms occur, the patient has transmitted the virus without knowing.

Identifying infected individuals to curb SARS-CoV-2 transmission is more challenging compared to SARS and other respiratory viruses because infected individuals can be highly contagious for several days, peaking on or before symptoms occur (2, 7). These “silent shedders” could be critical drivers of the enhanced spread of SARS-CoV-2. In Wuhan, China, it has been estimated that undiagnosed cases of COVID-19 infection, who were presumably asymptomatic, were responsible for up to 79% of viral infections (3). Therefore, regular, widespread testing is essential to identify and isolate infected asymptomatic individuals.

Airborne transmission was determined to play a role during the SARS outbreak in 2003 (1, 4). However, many countries have not yet acknowledged airborne transmission as a possible pathway for SARS-CoV-2 (1). Recent studies have shown that in addition to droplets, SARS-CoV-2 may also be transmitted through aerosols. A study in hospitals in Wuhan, China, found SARS-CoV-2 in aerosols further than 6 feet from patients, with higher concentrations detected in more crowded areas (8). Estimates using an average sputum viral load for SARS-CoV-2 indicate that 1 min of loud speaking could generate >1000 virion-containing aerosols (9). Assuming viral titers for infected super-emitters (with 100-fold higher viral load than average) yields an increase to more than 100,000 virions in emitted droplets per minute of speaking.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommendations for social distancing of 6 feet and hand washing to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2 are based on studies of respiratory droplets carried out in the 1930s. These studies showed that large, ∼100 µm droplets produced in coughs and sneezes quickly underwent gravitational settling (1). However, when these studies were conducted, the technology did not exist for detecting submicron aerosols. As a comparison, calculations predict that in still air, a 100-µm droplet will settle to the ground from 8 feet in 4.6 s, whereas a 1-µm aerosol particle will take 12.4 hours (4). Measurements now show that intense coughs and sneezes that propel larger droplets more than 20 feet can also create thousands of aerosols that can travel even further (1). Increasing evidence for SARS-CoV-2 suggests the 6 feet CDC recommendation is likely not enough under many indoor conditions, where aerosols can remain airborne for hours, accumulate over time, and follow airflows over distances further than 6 feet (5, 10).

In outdoor environments, numerous factors will determine the concentrations and distance traveled, and whether respiratory viruses remain infectious in aerosols. Breezes and winds often occur and can transport infectious droplets and aerosols long distances. Asymptomatic individuals who are speaking while exercising can release infectious aerosols that can be picked up by airstreams (10). Viral concentrations will be more rapidly diluted outdoors, but few studies have been carried out on outdoor transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Additionally, SARS-CoV-2 can be inactivated by ultraviolet radiation in sunlight, and it is likely sensitive to ambient temperature and relative humidity, as well as the presence of atmospheric aerosols that occur in highly polluted areas. Viruses can attach to other particles such as dust and pollution, which can modify the aerodynamic characteristics and increase dispersion. Moreover, people living in areas with higher concentrations of air pollution have been shown to have higher severity of COVID-19 (11). Because respiratory viruses can remain airborne for prolonged periods before being inhaled by a potential host, studies are needed to characterize the factors leading to loss of infectivity over time in a variety of outdoor environments over a range of conditions

Given how little is known about the production and airborne behavior of infectious respiratory droplets, it is difficult to define a safe distance for social distancing. Assuming SARS-CoV-2 virions are contained in submicron aerosols, as is the case for influenza virus, a good comparison is exhaled cigarette smoke, which also contains submicron particles and will likely follow comparable flows and dilution patterns. The distance from a smoker at which one smells cigarette smoke indicates the distance in those surroundings at which one could inhale infectious aerosols. In an enclosed room with asymptomatic individuals, infectious aerosol concentrations can increase over time. Overall, the probability of becoming infected indoors will depend on the total amount of SARS-CoV-2 inhaled. Ultimately, the amount of ventilation, number of people, how long one visits an indoor facility, and activities that affect airflow will all modulate viral transmission pathways and exposure (10). For these reasons, it is important to wear properly fitted masks indoors even when 6 feet apart. Airborne transmission could account, in part, for the high secondary transmission rates to medical staff, as well as major outbreaks in nursing facilities. The minimum dose of SARS-CoV-2 that leads to infection is unknown, but airborne transmission through aerosols has been documented for other respiratory viruses, including measles, SARS, and chickenpox (4).

Airborne spread from undiagnosed infections will continuously undermine the effectiveness of even the most vigorous testing, tracing, and social distancing programs. After evidence revealed that airborne transmission by asymptomatic individuals might be a key driver in the global spread of COVID-19, the CDC recommended the use of cloth face coverings. Masks provide a critical barrier, reducing the number of infectious viruses in exhaled breath, especially of asymptomatic people and those with mild symptoms (12) (see the figure). Surgical mask material reduces the likelihood and severity of COVID-19 by substantially reducing airborne viral concentrations (13). Masks can also protect uninfected individuals from SARS-CoV-2 aerosols and droplets (13, 14). Thus, it is particularly important to wear masks in locations with conditions that can accumulate high concentrations of viruses, such as health care settings, airplanes, restaurants, and other crowded places with reduced ventilation. The aerosol filtering efficiency of different materials, thicknesses, and layers used in properly fitted homemade masks was recently found to be similar to that of the medical masks that were tested (14). Thus, the option of universal masking is no longer held back by shortages.

(con't)

[Mofro261]

From epidemiological data, places that have been most effective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 have implemented universal masking, including Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, and South Korea. In the battle against COVID-19, Taiwan (population 24 million, first COVID-19 case 21 January 2020) did not implement a lockdown during the pandemic, yet maintained a low incidence of 441 cases and 7 deaths (as of 21 May 2020). By contrast, the state of New York (population ∼20 million, first COVID case 1 March 2020), had a higher number of cases (353,000) and deaths (24,000). By quickly activating its epidemic response plan that was established after the SARS outbreak, the Taiwanese government enacted a set of proactive measures that successfully prevented the spread of SARS-CoV-2, including setting up a central epidemic command center in January, using technologies to detect and track infected patients and their close contacts, and perhaps most importantly, requesting people to wear masks in public places. The government also ensured the availability of medical masks by banning mask manufacturers from exporting them, implementing a system to ensure that every citizen could acquire masks at reasonable prices, and increasing the production of masks. In other countries, there have been widespread shortages of masks, resulting in most residents not having access to any form of medical mask (15). This striking difference in the availability and widespread adoption of wearing masks likely influenced the low number of COVID-19 cases.


Aerosol transmission of viruses must be acknowledged as a key factor leading to the spread of infectious respiratory diseases. Evidence suggests that SARS-CoV-2 is silently spreading in aerosols exhaled by highly contagious infected individuals with no symptoms. Owing to their smaller size, aerosols may lead to higher severity of COVID-19 because virus-containing aerosols penetrate more deeply into the lungs (10). It is essential that control measures be introduced to reduce aerosol transmission. A multidisciplinary approach is needed to address a wide range of factors that lead to the production and airborne transmission of respiratory viruses, including the minimum virus titer required to cause COVID-19; viral load emitted as a function of droplet size before, during, and after infection; viability of the virus indoors and outdoors; mechanisms of transmission; airborne concentrations; and spatial patterns. More studies of the filtering efficiency of different types of masks are also needed. COVID-19 has inspired research that is already leading to a better understanding of the importance of airborne transmission of respiratory disease.

[seano732]

Yep. We are in fact doomed.
https://twitter.com/rexchapman/statu...481693697?s=21

[Super G]

Maybe the phrase "abortion stew" was a little coarse? I think the question was answered. We all should be a little less willing to poke sore points.

you know what, you guys are right about the phrases I used. That was overboard. If I could take them back, I would.
It was not my intent to poke sore points. I am just concerned about what is going on and think there are a lot of questions that people don't want to answer. This community means a lot to me and these topics bring divisiveness which is not the way forward. The last thing I want to do is divide more, so apologies if I did that.

I am going to sign off for a bit, but I wish you all luck with this mess. When you are not distracted by screens, try to tap into your spiritual intuition to help guide you through this era of mass misinformation.

Peace!

[::: :::]

try to tap into your spiritual intuition to help guide you through this era of mass misinformation.

Sorry, man, no...especially with so many that do not understand the essentials. "Intuition" & forming your own opinion off of it is just terrible advice. People spend their professional lives working on research & ideas so that the rest of humanity does not have to understand it all.

We can all fly without understanding how flight works and that is ok. Experts are to be supported, not undermined by the uninformed populace who just doesn't feel like investing in the research or training involved to truly understand a field.

Peace!

But I do get on board with this:
Peace to you & all

[John_B]

Thanks for the Nature article MoFro, that was an interesting read that was surprisingly readable compared to the usual scientific articles I try to read.

[The AD]

Reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2
Science 26 Jun 2020

Interesting read. Doesn't bode well for the continued operation of indoor dining at restaurants. Awfully difficult to eat while wearing a mask.

[senior researcher]

Solient Green is People!

[SorryBro]

But you should "strongly consider" doing so. Incredible.

The fun part was he verbally DID NOT mention masks at all while this slide was up. Skipped right over it. It's intentional by the administration and incredibly stupid.

[east or bust]

Texas governor just closed all bars. Shit is getting serious!

Not in the airport, apparently.

[Boissal]

From the WaPo:

A Maryland man who organized rallies to pressure Gov. Larry Hogan to lift the state’s stay-home order says he has tested positive for the novel coronavirus and does not plan to provide names of people with whom he had contact to public health officials for contact tracing.

Tim Walters, a co-founder of ReOpen Maryland, said on social media earlier in the week that he has had a dry cough for months but it recently worsened. He then began to experience an excruciating headache, a fever and the inability to focus in one of his eyes, which led to some vertigo.

Walters, 53, a diabetic who has suffered from mini-strokes in the past, said he went to a hospital emergency room Monday and was diagnosed with the virus.

“Here I am months after not wearing a mask at rallies, churches and so on, and so it’s funny how capricious this thing is,” he said in a Facebook video.

JFC. You couldn't possibly think of a stupider hypothetical situation if you spent a week on it. I would LOVE to see one of our resident COVID-denying dickheads twist themselves into a pretzel trying to explain/justify this dude's behavior.
Also, funny doesn't mean what that guy thinks it means

[The AD]

From the WaPo:



JFC. You couldn't possibly think of a stupider hypothetical situation if you spent a week on it. I would LOVE to see one of our resident COVID-denying dickheads twist themselves into a pretzel trying to explain/justify this dude's behavior.
Also, funny doesn't mean what that guy thinks it means

I also like the implied "I wasn't really wrong" attitude because even with his flagrant behavior it took months before he knew for sure he has COVID-19.

[Buster Highmen]

When you are not distracted by screens, try to tap into your spiritual intuition to help guide you through this era of mass misinformation.

Peace!

My spiritual intuition does not guide me in matters of information.

[east or bust]

back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that covid-19 has so far shortened the lives of its American victims by 11 years, on average, compared with about nine years in the hardest-hit European countries. America may not yet have reached the same rate of covid-19 deaths as the likes of Britain, Spain and Italy. But the contagion in America is far from contained.

How is something like this determined? Considering it’s been like 3 months

[skaredshtles]

From the WaPo:



JFC. You couldn't possibly think of a stupider hypothetical situation if you spent a week on it. I would LOVE to see one of our resident COVID-denying dickheads twist themselves into a pretzel trying to explain/justify this dude's behavior.
Also, funny doesn't mean what that guy thinks it means

Pull him out of that hospital and put him in a fucking solitary cell in a jail somewhere. Somewhere remote, preferably. GODDAMMIT.

[John_B]

How is something like this determined? Considering it’s been like 3 months

Average age of death in a country minus average age of people that died of COVID?

Hopefully it is something involving a bit more statistics than that.

[east or bust]

Average age of death in a country minus average age of people that died of COVID?

Hopefully it is something involving a bit more statistics than that.

DOH, I read that completely wrong. For some reason I thought it was claiming to have reduced the lives of recovered patients by those amounts. Double DOH

[seano732]

Not in the airport, apparently.

IDK what's worse, you being at an airport or you drinking Bud Light....