Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[I've seen black diamonds!]

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[schuss]

I think many have reached the DGAF point where the thinking is "well most if us are vaccinated and those who aren't had their chance so we're going to get back to living our lives a little more".

What do I mean by that? Look at the college bowl game playoffs and national championship game.. The payoff games were two giant stadiums filled with 100K fans, students, players, staff, trainers,etc. Only the some of the trainers and a handful of fans were wearing masks. So, the two winning teams there have approx 10 more days to prepare for the championship game. College kids off a huge historic school win having the best time of their lives...

Anyone else think it's odd that following those playoff game events and leading up to the championship we don't hear about a SINGLE player, coach, trainer, etc testing positive on either of those two final teams??? Nobody was unable to make the championship game due to COVID?? There no way in hell they were testing anyone if NOBODY tested positive all though the days and minutes between the playoff games Dec 31st and kickoff January 10th.

Why isn't anyone even asking if that seems strange??

Now, first hand up close experience. Daughter is a high school senior active in her theater department. They are being very careful, wearing masks at all times in rehearsals leading up to their big performances next weekend.. They all took PCR tests last weekend because a few tested positive the previous week. But, not nearly as much scrutiny as the performance dates get closer.. Hoping ignorance is bliss? If people go out of their way to test and some of those come back positive a literal showstopper. Instead they seem OK with pressing on without knowing for sure everyone's status hoping the vaccines (all documented as fully bosted) will be good enough to just roll on. If others outside of their group aren't vaxxed?? Oh well??

I'm sure some may have COVID exposure in their home or other circles this week. but nobody's going out of their way to get tested without being formally asked to test at this point. All these kids are thinking.. "I'm not going to be the one to go get tested and shut the whole thing down unless I'm absolutely certain I'm sick and spreading it". Again all wearing KN95 masks they feel that's good enough now..

Anybody else getting that vibe from their kids' schools, work, bridge club, etc??

Well, from most measures if you're vaccinated and boosted, you really don't have that much risk anymore, especially with omicron. I think there's a few things going on here:
1. For the vaccinated and boosted - yeah, I'm living my life more. I don't see vulnerable or unvaccinated people on a regular basis and if any known exposures are around, we wait to see them. We wear masks indoors in public. I'm not putting my life on hold because a bunch of shitty people are being irresponsible. I'm still being careful and not doing things like going to crowded venues or whatnot, but I'm not going to stop going to the rock gym either (though I wear a mask there too, makes it extra hard).
2. Bowl games etc. - you have YEARS of propaganda at this point and most of college football country is GOP country, so those bowl games are going to kill a bunch of unvaccinated indoctrinated. I can't stop that. I don't think anyone can stop that because the know-nothing ethos is so entrenched now. So you can either get mad about it or just shake your head as more unnecessary people die. Hell, Alabama elected a football coach to Senator that couldn't even name the three branches of government. College footballs is Saturday church for many. I'm just using this to see who I should never listen to ever again on anything important.

[Bunion 2020]

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Both very good points, thanks.

[skiJ]

Well, from most measures if you're vaccinated and boosted, you really don't have that much risk anymore, especially with omicron. I think there's a few things going on here:
1. For the vaccinated and boosted - yeah, I'm living my life more. I don't see vulnerable or unvaccinated people on a regular basis and if any known exposures are around, we wait to see them. We wear masks indoors in public. I'm not putting my life on hold because a bunch of shitty people are being irresponsible. I'm still being careful and not doing things like going to crowded venues or whatnot, but I'm not going to stop going to the rock gym either (though I wear a mask there too, makes it extra hard).
2. Bowl games etc. - you have YEARS of propaganda at this point and most of college football country is GOP country, so those bowl games are going to kill a bunch of unvaccinated indoctrinated. I can't stop that. I don't think anyone can stop that because the know-nothing ethos is so entrenched now. So you can either get mad about it or just shake your head as more unnecessary people die. Hell, Alabama elected a football coach to Senator that couldn't even name the three branches of government. College footballs is Saturday church for many. I'm just using this to see who I should never listen to ever again on anything important.

Good post - Thank you. skiJ

[SumJongGuy]

Thanks schuss. I'm in the middle and unable to reconcile the dissonance between wanting to see the fun stuff and traditions continue and the carnage I fear from allowing that to happen. I'm very thankful for vaccines to keep us out of the hospital and much better masks widely available now than what we had to fight the pandemic with when it hit spring of 2020. Darwin is definitely at work with those who are not even trying to stop the spread.. but it also impacts folks who are but need a different hospital service. definitely a lot of dissonance I'm unable to come to terms with.

[Benny Profane]

Why are you so unhappy?

Irreversible bad choices in life.

[Ted Striker]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but the line of thinking that omicron is benign enough that everyone should just get over it is flawed in that you don't get to pick your variant. My wife was just talking to our nurse friend, who said the ICU is still full of delta here.

[old goat]

I don't have the balls to post this one in the vaccines thread.. More junk science??

Covid Effect: Man's Penis Shrank By 1.5 Inches After Covid-19, Says Report

That sounds legit--blood clot in the penile artery. Given that small vessel blood clots that have been seen with covid, not surprising.

My son says of his 16 recent trauma admits (Las Vegas) 12 tested positive for Covid.

[bodywhomper]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but the line of thinking that omicron is benign enough that everyone should just get over it is flawed in that you don't get to pick your variant. My wife was just talking to our nurse friend, who said the ICU is still full of delta here.

Also very little to no info about long covid for the vaxed with omicron.

[schuss]

Thanks schuss. I'm in the middle and unable to reconcile the dissonance between wanting to see the fun stuff and traditions continue and the carnage I fear from allowing that to happen. I'm very thankful for vaccines to keep us out of the hospital and much better masks widely available now than what we had to fight the pandemic with when it hit spring of 2020. Darwin is definitely at work with those who are not even trying to stop the spread.. but it also impacts folks who are but need a different hospital service. definitely a lot of dissonance I'm unable to come to terms with.

There's only so much any of us can do. At a certain level, a bunch of people are choosing to die or put themselves at massive risk of death, so we should honestly just deprioritize their health care in lieu of those who give a shit, but that would be callous, so we're stuck.

[jono]

There's only so much any of us can do. At a certain level, a bunch of people are choosing to die or put themselves at massive risk of death, so we should honestly just deprioritize their health care in lieu of those who give a shit, but that would be callous, so we're stuck.

We could let em pay for it. That would be a step more fair.

[schuss]

We could let em pay for it. That would be a step more fair.

People can't pay their medical bills anyhow - it would just end up paid for by all of us, especially if they die. I'm saying add explicit triage protocols that put them at the end of the list if they aren't vaccinated, adult and have no complicating factors that prevented it.

[SumJongGuy]

People can't pay their medical bills anyhow - it would just end up paid for by all of us, especially if they die. I'm saying add explicit triage protocols that put them at the end of the list if they aren't vaccinated, adult and have no complicating factors that prevented it.

Put up a tent in the parking lot with beds and a generous supply of horse dewormer?

[jono]

People can't pay their medical bills anyhow - it would just end up paid for by all of us, especially if they die. I'm saying add explicit triage protocols that put them at the end of the list if they aren't vaccinated, adult and have no complicating factors that prevented it.

I understand that you wouldn't be concerned about the money compared to the health risks. But imagine there was a small population of people in this country who were very concerned with "moral hazard." The idea that protecting people from their choices would modify those choices. Imagine that this population felt so strongly about this that they opposed all forms of social safety nets. This group might just think a little differently. (I can give examples if needed.)

What do we get as a society from paying for the hospital bills of the unvaccinated? Because it's doing net damage to them and us. Bankrupting a few would be a kindness to others. Leaving them to rot and die with substandard care is just an act of cold civil war and no one considers it seriously.

[wooley12]

Trying to insert any logic into the decision making by some about Covid will make you crazy.

IMO, the financial part of the HS system are so screwed up that paying for care won't have any substantial costs for you or me to bear.

[skiskiskiskiski]

Leaving them to rot and die with substandard care is just an act of cold civil war and no one considers it seriously.

I absolutely think we have a moral obligation to treat every patient to the best we are able when we have enough resources just like I think we are morally obligated to feed, clothe and house all humans when the resources are available.

When a shortage exists, things change. I absolutely think it would be ok to move or downgrade the care an unvaccinated patient is receiving to provide care for the vaccinated.

Its a clear, easy choice. Get the shot or dont, but its wrong for the anyi vaxxers to eat up all the resources.

[jono]

I absolutely think we have a moral obligation to treat every patient to the best we are able when we have enough resources just like I think we are morally obligated to feed, clothe and house all humans when the resources are available.

When a shortage exists, things change. I absolutely think it would be ok to move or downgrade the care an unvaccinated patient is receiving to provide care for the vaccinated.

Its a clear, easy choice. Get the shot or dont, but its wrong for the anyi vaxxers to eat up all the resources.

Of course it is. But they've been telling us for years that if we give out free health care people will take it, to the detriment of all. Now they're living (and dying) by that statement and somehow the concrete reality of it still hasn't sunk in: they know it to be true because they are the people who will take advantage.

[Benny Profane]

I understand that you wouldn't be concerned about the money compared to the health risks. But imagine there was a small population of people in this country who were very concerned with "moral hazard." The idea that protecting people from their choices would modify those choices. Imagine that this population felt so strongly about this that they opposed all forms of social safety nets. This group might just think a little differently. (I can give examples if needed.)

What do we get as a society from paying for the hospital bills of the unvaccinated? Because it's doing net damage to them and us. Bankrupting a few would be a kindness to others. Leaving them to rot and die with substandard care is just an act of cold civil war and no one considers it seriously.

No.

Imagine that America had universal health care. A health system established so that all didn't have to worry about medical bills if they got sick. A country where the doctor to tens of millions isn't the ER. Which it is, you know, upper middle class TGR bros. A country that doesn't bankrupt cancer victims.

Fuck your moral hazard. You know what's immoral? Capitalists profiting from sickness. That's about as immoral as it gets, outside of war crimes.

Two fucking years into this thing, and not one politician from either side has said, hey, maybe we should have a health system more like EVERY ADVANCED COUNTRY IN THE WESTERN WORLD. Nope. We're coming out of the other side stuck with the same perverse profit driven health care that forces millions to avoid care until it's too late. That is fucked up.

[jono]

I get it. You hope the world is different than it is. That these people are better than they are. Hope is the first step to disappointment. Expectation is second and entitlement is last.

Go ahead and hope they're better than they know they are. Better than they're telling you they are. They get to keep their delusions, why shouldn't you?

[SumJongGuy]

Dude who preaches benefits of universal healthcare bitches about having to wear masks and prove vax status to go ski in Italy.. Pretty rich.. That tells me dude thinks he shouldn't have to help pay for said universal healthcare..

[Benny Profane]

Dude who preaches benefits of universal healthcare bitches about having to wear masks and prove vax status to go ski in Italy.. Pretty rich.. That tells me dude thinks he shouldn't have to help pay for said universal healthcare..

Lighten up Elroy. I never bitched about masks, although I think we are beyond it. You're stuck in fear world, millions have moved on. You have some serious issues, like millions, and want the rest of us to care. I don't.

STFU

[jfost]

Lighten up Elroy. I never bitched about masks, although I think we are beyond it. You're stuck in fear world, millions have moved on. You have some serious issues, like millions, and want the rest of us to care. I don't.

STFU

It’s lame when people imply that those who are trying to do something for the good of the order are somehow pussies living in fear… that’s what drives a lot of the dissonance IMHO, who wants to be a pussy after all?

[SumJongGuy]

Lighten up Elroy. I never bitched about masks, although I think we are beyond it. You're stuck in fear world, millions have moved on. You have some serious issues, like millions, and want the rest of us to care. I don't.

STFU

I ain't stuck in nothing. I've been skiing this season. How about you? I've been to NHL games and medium venue concerts.. How about you? You're just bitching about not getting to go to Italy when you've got the whole world right in front of you. Who's the pussie??

Beyond it? According to the folks here working in hospitals we're not beyond jack shit yet. We're not beyond masks and entertainment/sports/nonessential event shutdowns until the hospitals are back to normal. Until then it's touch and go. We've got Hamilton tickets in late May but have every expectation that if shit blows up worse again we won't whine like a little child if that doesn't pan out. Waited 2 years for one of the concerts to finally happen. Worth it to save a couple lives..

[MagnificentUnicorn]

No.

Imagine that America had universal health care. A health system established so that all didn't have to worry about medical bills if they got sick. A country where the doctor to tens of millions isn't the ER. Which it is, you know, upper middle class TGR bros. A country that doesn't bankrupt cancer victims.

Fuck your moral hazard. You know what's immoral? Capitalists profiting from sickness. That's about as immoral as it gets, outside of war crimes.

Two fucking years into this thing, and not one politician from either side has said, hey, maybe we should have a health system more like EVERY ADVANCED COUNTRY IN THE WESTERN WORLD. Nope. We're coming out of the other side stuck with the same perverse profit driven health care that forces millions to avoid care until it's too late. That is fucked up.

Strong work. My sentiments exactly. This country is circling the drain


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[frorider]

Benny opined

not one politician from either side has said, hey, maybe we should have a health system more like EVERY ADVANCED COUNTRY IN THE WESTERN WORLD

Bullshit post is bullshit. Many democrats use this ‘Covid has exposed exactly why we need universal health care’ as a talking point all the fucking time.