Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[Kinnikinnick]

I wasn’t aware that the vaccines provide complete immunity for everyone who gets them... I was under the assumption that the medical professionals told everyone it was just to limit severity of symptoms as you still have to wear a mask and social distance since you can give it to other people/still get it.

Too many times your head was smashed into the glass.


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[mtuhockey33]

So you're saying you're adjusting your understanding to account for the mistake in your assumption? Are you removing the word "just" and accounting for the fact that some will also get "complete immunity" or do you need to flip from one absolute to another?

My sarcasm was lost on you... The word just was used because they never said the vaccines provided full immunity. The only things they could guarantee was a less severe reaction to the actual virus. If this is no longer the case and the vaccines provide full immunity to the point where masks and social distancing aren’t needed, that is news to me.

[Kinnikinnick]

My sarcasm was lost on you... The word just was used because they never said the vaccines provided full immunity. The only things they could guarantee was a less severe reaction to the actual virus. If this is no longer the case and the vaccines provide full immunity to the point where masks and social distancing aren’t needed, that is news to me.

You dont understand these things


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[jono]

My sarcasm was lost on you... The word just was used because they never said the vaccines provided full immunity. The only things they could guarantee was a less severe reaction to the actual virus. If this is no longer the case and the vaccines provide full immunity to the point where masks and social distancing aren’t needed, that is news to me.

Unfortunately the sarcasm wasn't lost, I'm just trying to be more diplomatic with people who claim stupidity. The "just" implies that no one ever gets more than a moderate improvement when in reality a moderate improvement is all they're willing to guarantee--even though some (the proportion is not yet known) will get "sterilizing immunity" and others will get lower viral loads that make them less contagious.

And "guarantee" probably only applies to 99-99.999% or so of people--there are always outliers. Which is the point: we don't get 100% effectiveness from anything so we do more than one thing. Like seat belts, airbags, speed limits, crumple zones and good tires.

Understanding the spectrum that exists between two extremes gives partial immunity against those who are feeding you false dichotomies. This would be dangerous for them; maybe decide how much you love your cult leaders before deciding whether to think for yourself?

[The AD]

Well, it was good while it lasted. Look at the extreme right of this graph. Sure looks like we may be heading back up again and we never even quite made it back down to last summer's peak. Maybe it's merely a glitch, but I kinda doubt it.

[MultiVerse]

I should add that if the plan is to get everyone a second dose within a few months a lot of objections go away, although not the concern about effectiveness against variants.

To be clear the issue is first-dose-first, not one-dose-only. In the last week 60-75% of all vaccinations were second doses.

Data from the UK and Israel is unequivocal. First doses save lives. If the roughly 20 million second doses had been first doses instead thousands of lives would have been saved.

Since the middle of December there have been over 10 million positive Covid cases and about 200K deaths in a population of about 200 million not previously infected. Based on those numbers about 1 out every 1000 susceptible Americans died from Covid after the vaccines were approved for emergency use.

If the 20 million or so second doses had been first doses instead, then twenty thousand lives might have been saved. Likely more if you take into account vaccines are given to individuals at higher risk rather than a random person. You also get a 20 million reduction in potential transmissions.

[bodywhomper]

Bump.

Just did a little walk thru town while waiting for my pizzas. Inside eating and drinking are not allowed. 2 restaurants are currently closed because multiple employees tested positive at the same time (there was a recent clandestine dance party). 2 of 6 restaurants that are open were serving indoors. 4 of the 5 bars were serving indoors.

[jono]

Bump.

Just did a little walk thru town while waiting for my pizzas. Inside eating and drinking are not allowed. 2 restaurants are currently closed because multiple employees tested positive at the same time (there was a recent clandestine dance party). 2 of 6 restaurants that are open were serving indoors. 4 of the 5 bars were serving indoors.

Uptick of two posts ago explained?

[bodywhomper]

Uptick of two posts ago explained?

Yep. It's getting broader broadcasting, which hopefully is helpful. The current micro surge here that i mention in my above post will hopefully be nipped soon, but we'll see. A loud bar packed with patrons shoulder to shoulder and no real ventilation is certainly a superspreader event if there's contagious folk(s) present.

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[ill-advised strategy]

Can anyone explain me the logic of wearing a mask when standing, but you can take it off when seated? Same air, same aerosols.
What possible basis exists for that seated/standing logic? It’s about breathing the same air, what about being seated stops you from breathing?

[ill-advised strategy]

I’m so sick of the bullshit

[Name Redacted]

Can anyone explain me the logic of wearing a mask when standing, but you can take it off when seated? Same air, same aerosols.
What possible basis exists for that seated/standing logic? It’s about breathing the same air, what about being seated stops you from breathing?

The tables are 6 ft apart, and people should be with no more than one other household although that’s not really being enforced AFAIK.

[bigdude2468]

State of UT & InterMountain Healthcare believes the state is at 40% - 50% immunity, combo of exposure and vaccinations. UT will receive 20,000 doses of J&J vaccine next week.

I believe we are closer to herd immunity than we realize. There is no other reasonable explanation for what has happened in WI. Trust me, WI residents are still fat, unhealthy, drink way too much and continue to hang out in bars. From the peak in mid November hospitalizations are down 87%, ICU patients down 80%. Over half of 65+ year olds have received at least one dose and finally as of last week the state showed up at nursing homes.

[MakersTeleMark]

The tables are 6 ft apart, and people should be with no more than one other household although that’s not really being enforced AFAIK.

The whole thing is a fucking joke honestly.

[Name Redacted]

The whole thing is a fucking joke honestly.

Not saying I don’t agree, especially now at 50% capacity. Went into a few businesses yesterday and it was fucking nuts. Not sure what’s going on this weekend, it’s like spring break decided to start early?

[KQ]

Dood, there is no immunity from that DRUG. Taking it prophylactically isn't going to do much at all other than part you with $.

"Ivermectin has been shown to inhibit the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in cell cultures.13 However, pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic studies suggest that achieving the plasma concentrations necessary for the antiviral efficacy detected in vitro would require administration of doses up to 100-fold higher than those approved for use in humans.1"

Not advised.

Well at least people taking horse Zemectrin (brand name) won't have worms!

[MakersTeleMark]

Not saying I don’t agree, especially now at 50% capacity. Went into a few businesses yesterday and it was fucking nuts. Not sure what’s going on this weekend, it’s like spring break decided to start early?

It's fucking insane how many are around. Complete overload. I think I'm going to go on a bloody mary diet until Monday.

[Name Redacted]

It's fucking insane how many are around. Complete overload. I think I'm going to go on a bloody mary diet until Monday.

As your doctor, I highly recommend this approach.

[char_]

Will probably need to fly late spring or early summer and based on the states timeline I won’t be vaccinated.

What’s the protocol here? Don a N95 at the door and don’t take it off until I get to the parking lot at my destination? Do I need eye protection?

[MultiVerse]

Will probably need to fly late spring or early summer and based on the states timeline I won’t be vaccinated.

What’s the protocol here? Don a N95 at the door and don’t take it off until I get to the parking lot at my destination? Do I need eye protection?

The good news is the benefit of wearing a mask compounds as more people wear masks. The compounding effect happens because masks reduce both transmission and reception. If everyone at the airport and on the plane is wearing a mask then you should be relatively safe. Eyes are an under-reported path of infection so if you want nth degree more protection wearing glasses would help.

It's also likely you can increase your chances of vaccination by putting in a little effort as opposed to waiting for the state to notify you. It could be as simple as putting your name on a list before other people do.

FWIW, the benefits of vaccines are a lot like masks. It's not so much about the individual as it is the demultiplication or compounding effect of reduced spreading.

State of UT & InterMountain Healthcare believes the state is at 40% - 50% immunity, combo of exposure and vaccinations. UT will receive 20,000 doses of J&J vaccine next week.

I believe we are closer to herd immunity than we realize. There is no other reasonable explanation for what has happened in WI. Trust me, WI residents are still fat, unhealthy, drink way too much and continue to hang out in bars. From the peak in mid November hospitalizations are down 87%, ICU patients down 80%. Over half of 65+ year olds have received at least one dose and finally as of last week the state showed up at nursing homes.

There are lots of other explanations. It is the spike, not the decline, that people should look at. Demultiplication after the holiday superspreader events is not the same thing as herd immunity.

[Ted Striker]

Can anyone explain me the logic of wearing a mask when standing, but you can take it off when seated? Same air, same aerosols.
What possible basis exists for that seated/standing logic? It’s about breathing the same air, what about being seated stops you from breathing?

I’m so sick of the bullshit

Yeah, it's the same here. Letter of the law vs intent, risk, and consequences. Luckily, we have very few 'muh freedum' warriors around here, but lots of selfish entitlement on display.

The tables are 6 ft apart, and people should be with no more than one other household although that’s not really being enforced AFAIK.

Not enforced here either, and I can't say I blame them. Small restaurants are circling the drain.

The whole thing is a fucking joke honestly.

Yep.

[char_]

The good news is the benefit of wearing a mask compounds as more people wear masks. The compounding effect happens because masks reduce both transmission and reception. If everyone at the airport and on the plane is wearing a mask then you should be relatively safe. Eyes are an under-reported path of infection so if you want nth degree more protection wearing glasses would help.

It's also likely you can increase your chances of vaccination by putting in a little effort as opposed to waiting for the state to notify you. It could be as simple as putting your name on a list before other people do.

FWIW, the benefits of vaccines are a lot like masks. It's not so much about the individual as it is the demultiplication or compounding effect of reduced spreading.





There are lots of other explanations. It is the spike, not the decline, that people should look at. Demultiplication after the holiday superspreader events is not the same thing as herd immunity.

Thank you for the response.

What is the effect of the new variants on this thinking?

[bigdude2468]

The good news is the benefit of wearing a mask compounds as more people wear masks. The compounding effect happens because masks reduce both transmission and reception. If everyone at the airport and on the plane is wearing a mask then you should be relatively safe. Eyes are an under-reported path of infection so if you want nth degree more protection wearing glasses would help.

It's also likely you can increase your chances of vaccination by putting in a little effort as opposed to waiting for the state to notify you. It could be as simple as putting your name on a list before other people do.

FWIW, the benefits of vaccines are a lot like masks. It's not so much about the individual as it is the demultiplication or compounding effect of reduced spreading.





There are lots of other explanations. It is the spike, not the decline, that people should look at. Demultiplication after the holiday superspreader events is not the same thing as herd immunity.

No WI spike after Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years or when stupid Green Bay fans packed the Stadium View Bar for playoff games. The decline in hospitalizations including ICU patients has been dropping since November 16th. Only 11 times since November 16th has the number of hospitalizations increased from the previous day.

[bodywhomper]

I recently asked a small restaurant owner whether they’ve explored an insurance claim, they stated they have prioritized their time to apply for grants and haven’t yet explored the potential for filing a claim. Curious if this is happening anywhere in the US.

[skaredshtles]

No WI spike after Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years or when stupid Green Bay fans packed the Stadium View Bar for playoff games. The decline in hospitalizations including ICU patients has been dropping since November 16th. Only 11 times since November 16th has the number of hospitalizations increased from the previous day.

From this it appears there were spikes in the COVID deaths following those holidays...