Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[altasnob]

The Canadian border closure seems like semantics to me. As I understand, Americans can still travel to Canada for "essential purposes," such as conducting essential business in Canada. Goods travel across the border every day. But in Washington State, and most states in the US, you are only supposed to travel anywhere in the US for essential purposes as well. Some have interpreted this as a green light to take a family vacation cross country to Yellowstone. But in the end, Americans are not supposed to be driving all over the place like they are, just like they are not allowed to travel to Canada solely for recreation. And yes, if there was no border guard you know Americans would deem hitting the Whistler mountain bike park en masse as essential to their well being.

[wendigo]

Border is legit closed. Coworker moving to ak was stopped, they said he could drive through since he has a job assignment but his fiancé couldn’t since she doesn’t have work lined up. He asked if it would make any difference if they were married and the response was no. Too many US decided the rules didn’t apply to them and vacationed through Canada. Apparently, Canada has had enough of that.

[riser4]

So what about folks in places like Point Roberts, WA? What on Earth are they doing to get through this? Or Campobello, NB? Or any of those other places on both sides of the border that are cut off from the rest of whichever country they belong to?

[LeeLau]

My sister living in LA and a Canadian citizen had to be interviewed by a border officer along with my parents (3 way call) before she could visit, agreed to quarantine for 14days and is subject to (and has been visited) by Leo's checking.

Clients with US offices don't even try to get US personnel over for any meetings. My clients' contingency plans are for this to last into next summer. And possibly longer


This border is sealed quite tight.

[MakersTeleMark]

https://www.hcn.org/articles/north-c...rom-canada-too

[old goat]

I am holding at 94% O2 saturation and watching it at OCD levels. Breathing is getting more difficult.

I'm sure your doc told you but don't just lie in bed on your back--lie on your sides, your stomach, get up in a chair. If your sat drops cough a couple of times. Maybe you can get your hands on an incentive spirometer. And get tested for antibody at some point--it could be a true negative and you have some other miserable shit--Covid 20 perhaps. And get well quick please.

With the pulse ox--try different fingers. I have one finger--left index-- that had some very mild frostbite a long time ago, it sometimes gets numb on cold days, and it sometimes reads lower than the others.

[old goat]

post WWII lord Louis Mountbatten said don't come home boys there is nothing left of Britain so my father joined the Singapore harbor police, when the mess finaly got a decent cook everyone was happy till somebody watched him cook, his secret was making sure the grill was hot enough so to test it the cook would spit on it ... he didnt last

I flick a little spit on the frying pan all the time--when it jumps the pan is ready. There's nothing in spit that a hot frying pan won't kill.

Herd immunity may be smaller than we think, and quicker than a vaccine.

https://www.theatlantic.com/newslett...munity/614116/

https://zdoggmd.com/herd-immunity/

Americans don't want herd immunity they have to work for. Americans want herd immunity that lets them go back to 2019 without getting a shot--other people get sick or get the shot, they don't have to lift a finger.

[Bunion 2020]

Had to go into a convenience store for ice today.

Places are about 50/50 for masks in spite of the County rule.

I get in line on the decal, 1 woman ahead of me at the register.

Guy gets in line behind me about 2 feet away and proceeds to start fucking with his mask.

Me," You might want go give me some space, I was exposed last week".

Him, "Really"?

He then proceeded to social distance.

[riser4]

Yeah.....I dunno either. Sounds urban legendish to me. Just sharing what I found. Though we do know that labs and staff are overly taxed ar the moment. If only we had some sort of national plan......

I think if you apply Occam's Razor, shitty paperwork handling is a lot more likely than some wide conspiracy to inflate the numbers to make the President look bad.

[riser4]

http://www.cnn.com/2020/08/08/us/duk...mask-test-trnd

[Trashcan]

Thanks OG! Got that info from
doc,
I have neuropathy from liver failure so only two fingers work on a meter.

[The SnowShow]

Does anyone know of any rapid tests coming out soon? How is it almost fall and we still don’t have something fast AND reliable?

[XXX-er]

I flick a little spit on the frying pan all the time--when it jumps the pan is ready. There's nothing in spit that a hot frying pan won't kill..

well you know what they say about mad dogs and englishmen

[funkendrenchman]

http://www.cnn.com/2020/08/08/us/duk...mask-test-trnd

Whoever decided that Buffs and bandanas count as a proper face covering? Get a real mask people.

[old goat]

Whoever decided that Buffs and bandanas count as a proper face covering? Get a real mask people.

With ski season coming up maybe they need to run some tests on wet masks. If I ski--haven't decided yet--I was planning to use a buff because the material tolerates moisture and dries quickly. I guess I'll use my hiking masks--polyester with cotton lining and see how they hold up. Since I have 48 of them--that's how they came--I guess I can change them out as needed.

[bry]

Was thinking about how toasty warm a respirator under the balaclava/ neck gaiter would be on a blustery day

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[::: :::]

Does frozen beard mask count?

[jono]

I'm not so concerned about the fleece results. Not that it's good news or anything, but that isn't reliable data. The error bars on the fleece are huge (indicating they got big variation) and I didn't find any reference in their discussion to the fact that the fleece would be expected to be harboring moisture and thus be ready to expel more droplets. They tried to control for that by puffing dry air through each one, but of course dry air wouldn't dampen the material, so it's only useful for showing there wasn't dust in the mask. There are pros and cons to having a mask that's wet with your own moisture (as a wearer--mostly cons to others) but that factor may have easily played a huge role in their results and they don't mention it or describe how long it was worn prior to testing. I'm guessing it varied--maybe they even took measurements sequentially while the test subject kept it on. (I also didn't see how many layers were used, but I may have missed that.) All of which makes the hypothesis that fleece scatters more particles pretty unsupported (at least so far).

It's worth noting that the actual study was intended to show a (much needed) measurement technique, not to find rigorously defensible results. As such, the fact that they didn't (couldn't, given the limits of their equipment) account for very small particles as well as larger ones, variation in mass exhaled (unsealed volume and unmeasured flow from the box), or anything beyond a small angle of incidence at the lens makes this an early study of a new technique more than a definitive set of results.

It also lacks (so far?) a good way to measure the energy/velocity of particles to know how far they immediately travel, since it's just an up close measurement. Cutting down the energy of the particles is probably just as important as their number when it comes to speaking with someone who is 3-10 feet away. Bad masks probably still do that to an extent.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/cont...sciadv.abd3083

Still and all, yeah, real masks are better. Duh.

[old goat]

A review of the theories about why some people get sick and some are asymptomatic.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ge%2Fstory-ans
T cell immunity to other coronaviruses, genetic differences in the host, reduced inoculum due to masks, possible beneficial effect of previous vaccinations for unrelated diseases. Fauci sounds skeptical about all these theories--the old standby--multiple factors.

[wkd-rdr]

https://twitter.com/trvrb?ref_src=tw...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

I cant follow the Twitter thread very well, but I certainly appreciate the thoughts.

There has been previous discussion of this article and the Trevor Bedford twitter post I shared a page ago (and below). While it appears possible for a community to see herd immunity with as low as 20% infected (rather than the normal 60% infected), the reduced number is only possible, and because of, social distancing and mask. Stop doing that, and you would lose your low herd immunity threshold in that community. So not a replacement for a vaccine bailing us out. But to me, this is a glimmer of hope surrounded by otherwise dismal news. Once the hard hit areas like NY and Florida hit herd immunity (which Bedford thinks has already occurred) their numbers will go down (which is happening) and then with low numbers they can keep the virus in check through testing and contact tracing (like Canada and nearly every other nation on earth). This is why NY believes they can safely open schools. Opening schools will lead to virus outbreaks but as long as they can test and trace they can, in theory, keep it under control (like nearly all other countries on earth except US). Finally, Bedford points out you have to kill a lot of people to get where NY, Florida, ect. are.

Americans want herd immunity that lets them go back to 2019 without getting a shot--other people get sick or get the shot, they don't have to lift a finger.

America will get the herd immunity they deserve, just the path will vary from place to place.

(AKA, it is what it is)

[jono]

America will get the herd immunity they deserve, just the path will vary from place to place.

This is the fact. When it was Ebola we crushed it, spent less and lost less people. Because it's less deadly we chose to spend more, change our lives more for longer and lose hundreds of thousands.

Changing from R0<1@60% infected to @20% infected? Not without more deaths. Not here.

[LongShortLong]

Trashcan, hope your health improves soon.

Trying to remember anything useful from listening to TWIV and medcram (and UCSF). One thing they mentioned is a research hospital will tend to be more up to date on evolving treatment protocols, and will have more access to treatments - some are only available via clinical trials, and research hospitals are better at registering for them.

[MontuckyFried]

This is the fact. When it was Ebola we crushed it, spent less and lost less people. Because it's less deadly we chose to spend more, change our lives more for longer and lose hundreds of thousands.

Changing from R0<1@60% infected to @20% infected? Not without more deaths. Not here.

You can't really compare the two. Ebola is way less contagious than the rona.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...gious-is-ebola

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[jono]

You can't really compare the two. Ebola is way less contagious than the rona.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...gious-is-ebola

True, and you make my point: despite that, the level of precaution taken for every single case of Ebola in the US was absolute maximum. Isolation, hazmat suits, contact tracing, and that shit got shut down. I never had to think about community spread (or fiscal stimulus) because it was kept at least 2 levels from that. We killed it like New Zealand killed the rona. It's just a shame the rona isn't more painful and deadly so it wouldn't be so painful and deadly--and expensive.

[skifishbum]

while i was on the road for 2 weeks
both our 60+ neighbors got the covoid
and our delivery driver at work got contact traced on weds from contact that monday
then felt bad thurs and tested positive fri while i was gone
then another at work went in for a random test be able to go back and visit fam in MD and asymptotically tested positive weds
i sure felt safer on the road and water and should go back on social distance limited contact vacation
some of my buffs are 2 layers and a folded bandanas 2 more
no way 4 layers isnt better than 3
and did the cdc and who ever state how many lives could have been saved had they not dropped the fuckin ball and made face coverings a priority day 1 ?
vibes and strength tc