Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[AK47bp]

Heh. Well if the next global pandemic is the gum disease GINGIVITIS, this place will deliver the knowledge.


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[old goat]

I doubt most of us will have any choice in which vaccine we get. It'll be whichever one that gets shipped to your neighborhood. (The best one goes to ND, the worst one to CA, if we get any at all. After Jan 20 it switches.) We're obviously going to need all the vaccines that show any effectiveness. If and when there's plenty of vaccine they may save the good stuff for the highest risk populations, but that's a long way off. Theoretically we need about 13B doses, depending on what they decide for children and teens. Or if we're lucky and we get half the people vaccinated plus the people who got sick and better the pandemic may slow down enough to make getting a shot a routine thing you get from your doctor, rather than part of a nationwide, worldwide effort.

BTW the Regeneron antibodies just got an EUA.
"Regeneron has said it will have enough of the drug for only about 80,000 people by the end of November, enough for 200,000 patients by the first week of January, and 300,000 by the end of January. After that, the company said it will be able to ramp up production thanks to a partnership with the Swiss manufacturer Roche."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/21/h...ies-trump.html

[ron johnson]

No - you're wrong - I didn't claim that. Which means you'll be leaving now. You'll be missed. Godspeed.

I was referring to the people in the forum as a whole. Not you specifically.

[Lvovsky]

Freedumbs...

[Lvovsky]

So I guess it's totes cool for Governor Newsom to go to fancy restaurants sans masking or social distancing! I guess since he's down with all the right causes, he's immune. Hooray for science!!!

No, it’s not cool.

[Lvovsky]

Given the choice between the magnanimity of the corporations and the government, I'll take the government.

.

Sig worthy

[jono]

There are dentists with degrees in epidemiology. So that could explain it.

I took fluid mechanics from a dentist. Also had a MS in engineering, but he drilled teeth every summer or two. His memory tempers my view of dentists to this day.

[Yonder_River]

As is typical with these types. Lots of ideas about what not to do, no ideas about we should be doing.

What should we be doing to prevent hospitals from being overrun?
What should we have done to prevent 250,000 Americans from dying from this disease.
What should we do to prevent another 200,000 from dying?

This.

Hospitals and their workers barely coping with the current reality with the minimal restrictions many states have put in place and all the righties have is whining and complaining.

They don't and have never offered any real solutions and bury their heads in the sand when it comes to managing the real and present issues that are going on.

[funkendrenchman]

This.

Hospitals and their workers barely coping with the current reality with the minimal restrictions many states have put in place and all the righties have is whining and complaining.

They don't and have never offered any real solutions and bury their heads in the sand when it comes to managing the real and present issues that are going on.

It’s easier to say it’s not happening. Fake virus, fake numbers, fake studies, etc.

[ill-advised strategy]

Freedumbs...

Believe it or not, where I live there has been a real spike in driving with no license plates, no trailer lights, super bright illegal headlights...etc. really just any pain in the ass thing where a redneck would say “fuck it I ain’t doin that no more”. The police are doing nothing.
I can’t even imagine the amount of uninsured motorists right now...they’re just letting people drive around with no license plate at all...what country-fried q-anon porkchop is going to write a $2000 check for car insurance?



This is the fall of our brief empire.

[jono]

Quoting from the imminent closure thread:

First, you gotta understand that people don't like rules, especially American individualists. People really don't like inconvenient rules. People absolutely detest inconvenient rules when they don't understand the rationale... and rarely have motivation to gain that understanding. The cognitive bias is towards dismissing the validity of such rules in order to justify the natural desire for noncompliance.

The twisted mindset of "constitutional violation" requires the following logic:

1. Public health orders, which are county and state level legal actions, abridge some freedoms. People naturally don't like this, but one has to imagine that:
a. These are constitutional protected freedoms that cannot be abridged and
b. One must ignore the 10th Amendment that those unenumerated rights "are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

2. Believing that public health orders violate rights protected by the US Constitution is not enough. Even in cases where it is conditionally so, SCOTUS clearly allows for draconian health actions that otherwise abridge freedoms, such as quarantine, in the name of serious threats to public health. So now it is necessary to argue that the abridgement of rights is not justified. The easiest rationale to seek is that measures being ordered are useless, or unneeded, and thus not justified which would make them an abuse of power and violation of the Constitution.

That is how folks get from natural dislike of being told what to do down the torturous illogical tunnel justifying noncompliance by misunderstanding the constitution to dismissing the seriousness of the situation, denying that masks work, and doubting any bit of science which supports such interventions... all in order to confirm their natural bias against the measures needed to control the situation. Now tropes like "it's just the flu" or "it only kills diabetic geezers" or "masks don't work" provide the needed confirmatory rationale. The bias is glaring.

Unfortunately, it naturally follows from the above that there must be nefarious motives behind everything. Why else would authorities push rules that are both unjust and unjustified? This logic trap is self-reinforcing and promotes conspiratorial thinking, dismissing further evidence, and outright buy-in to "it's a hoax" and "they are trying to control us" tropes right on into the "they are intentionally lying and destroying our lives to achieve evil agenda X, Y or Z."

[The AD]

Could you imagine a pan-denti-emic?

"If all you morans would have just flossed, we'd be through this by now!"

[splat]

Fuck. Now Florida Man is plural.

Dental epidemiology will be big there.

[MTT]

Could you imagine a pan-denti-emic? The gear those guys could buy and never use!

Though I think a simpler response to MTT might be: you don't need to be a epidemiologist to say "hey I think we should listen to the epidemiologists. they've been studying this their whole life and I haven't so probably best to stay in my lane."

I thought everyone understood that the smart scientist types were very useful but incapable of managing their own lives let alone making decisions about a global population. What I see. We kinda gave the the keys and they wrapped it around a tree. The USA is not a sience experiment. Were being treated like Lab rats. Anyways. Nla bla bla

[abraham]

You talking about software nerds and such there MTT?

[MontuckyFried]

So doctor mags (OG?). I want you to chime in on a theory of mine for 2021 that I'm kind of worried about. Let me know if you think I'm right or wrong.

Anyway, the thought just occurred to me this AM that with nearly a year now of social distancing, sanitizing EVERYTHING, mask wearing, etc., etc., etc., that I have not had so much as a cough or a sniffle all year for like the first time ever in my life. Sounds like a good thing, right? Well it would at first glance, but then I thought about the fact that immunizations of all types are at very low numbers this year as everyone's so keyed on COVID-19. So hear me out. I feel like our immune systems are simply not getting the workouts they're supposed to be getting to remain healthy and protected against OTHER things. So, let's say by some miracle, a super effective COVID-19 vaccine comes out and we're ALL inoculated. Great, right? Except now perhaps enough time has passed without all the other usual suspects getting passed around and less flu and other vaccinations, so our bodies collectively have lost tons of T-cell memory and overall protection.

SO, let's say we actually do effectively beat COVID back down to practically nil by this time next year, does that mean we're going to get absolutely walloped by the H1N1/H3N2 and other things next year as we inevitably relax all the measures we took this year? I mean, it seems like if we get COVID really well under control that people will all be like "Hooray! Now we can go back to normal!" Enter everything else we WERE used to dealing with but perhaps no longer. Will it be the rise of some sort of "Super Flu"? Just for the record, I'm not trying to downplay COVID right now. Just wondering about the future in regard to other bugs.

[Kinnikinnick]

So doctor mags (OG?). I want you to chime in on a theory of mine for 2021 that I'm kind of worried about. Let me know if you think I'm right or wrong.

Anyway, the thought just occurred to me this AM that with nearly a year now of social distancing, sanitizing EVERYTHING, mask wearing, etc., etc., etc., that I have not had so much as a cough or a sniffle all year for like the first time ever in my life. Sounds like a good thing, right? Well it would at first glance, but then I thought about the fact that immunizations of all types are at very low numbers this year as everyone's so keyed on COVID-19. So hear me out. I feel like our immune systems are simply not getting the workouts they're supposed to be getting to remain healthy and protected against OTHER things. So, let's say by some miracle, a super effective COVID-19 vaccine comes out and we're ALL inoculated. Great, right? Except now perhaps enough time has passed without all the other usual suspects getting passed around and less flu and other vaccinations, so our bodies collectively have lost tons of T-cell memory and overall protection.

SO, let's say we actually do effectively beat COVID back down to practically nil by this time next year, does that mean we're going to get absolutely walloped by the H1N1/H3N2 and other things next year as we inevitably relax all the measures we took this year? I mean, it seems like if we get COVID really well under control that people will all be like "Hooray! Now we can go back to normal!" Enter everything else we WERE used to dealing with but perhaps no longer. Will it be the rise of some sort of "Super Flu"? Just for the record, I'm not trying to downplay COVID right now. Just wondering about the future in regard to other bugs.

No doctor but thats stupid. And its indicative of you right wingers. You know basically nothing about the subject but come up with some detailed theory that you think must have some validity because....why? Conservative seem to believe that you have some magical powers of perception because...?


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[MontuckyFried]

No doctor but thats stupid. And its indicative of you right wingers. You know basically nothing about the subject but come up with some detailed theory that you think must have some validity because....why? Conservative seem to believe that you have some magical powers of perception because...?


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That's why I'm literally asking for insight from our doctors, you condescending dolt. You don't think we're possibly losing any herd immunity from the flu this year? Why is that so outlandish? How about telling me why this idea is without merit instead of just slinging insults, mmkay?

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[Name Redacted]

So doctor mags (OG?). I want you to chime in on a theory of mine for 2021 that I'm kind of worried about. Let me know if you think I'm right or wrong.

Anyway, the thought just occurred to me this AM that with nearly a year now of social distancing, sanitizing EVERYTHING, mask wearing, etc., etc., etc., that I have not had so much as a cough or a sniffle all year for like the first time ever in my life. Sounds like a good thing, right? Well it would at first glance, but then I thought about the fact that immunizations of all types are at very low numbers this year as everyone's so keyed on COVID-19. So hear me out. I feel like our immune systems are simply not getting the workouts they're supposed to be getting to remain healthy and protected against OTHER things. So, let's say by some miracle, a super effective COVID-19 vaccine comes out and we're ALL inoculated. Great, right? Except now perhaps enough time has passed without all the other usual suspects getting passed around and less flu and other vaccinations, so our bodies collectively have lost tons of T-cell memory and overall protection.

SO, let's say we actually do effectively beat COVID back down to practically nil by this time next year, does that mean we're going to get absolutely walloped by the H1N1/H3N2 and other things next year as we inevitably relax all the measures we took this year? I mean, it seems like if we get COVID really well under control that people will all be like "Hooray! Now we can go back to normal!" Enter everything else we WERE used to dealing with but perhaps no longer. Will it be the rise of some sort of "Super Flu"? Just for the record, I'm not trying to downplay COVID right now. Just wondering about the future in regard to other bugs.

That's just not how the immune system works. You are missing a few key pieces of information.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Please don't quote the babosos.

[k2skier112]

is MF talking about injecting bleach again....Hey, try is str8t into da brain

[Kinnikinnick]

That's why I'm literally asking for insight from our doctors, you condescending dolt. You don't think we're possibly losing any herd immunity from the flu this year? Why is that so outlandish? How about telling me why this idea is without merit instead of just slinging insults, mmkay?

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Come on man, its just another theory that is trying to arrive at the desired conclusion: Masks and public health mandates are bad!!

There are reasons that people esp with health conditions are recommended to get flu vaccines every year.

Catching the flue today does not likely protect against the flu next year.




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[Name Redacted]

Restaurant workers protest in Breck:
https://www.summitdaily.com/news/ser...e-main-street/

[Mr. Mike]

Montucky, I think most of our "herd immunity from the flu" is derived from getting a flu shot rather than from previously having the flu, so simply getting the flu shot should largely address your concern, at least with respect to the flu specifically.

Your concern seems it might have a little validity with respect to other coronaviruses, such as the common cold. Like you, I haven't had a cold in all of 2020. Would usually have had 1-2 during the winter and another by this late in the fall. Of course, the common cold is mostly just an inconvenience and there are so many viruses that cause it that I would not expect the increase in incidence to be very significant or to be significant at all with respect to public health.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

That's why I'm literally asking for insight from our doctors, you condescending dolt. You don't think we're possibly losing any herd immunity from the flu this year? Why is that so outlandish? How about telling me why this idea is without merit instead of just slinging insults, mmkay?

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Uh, lots of people are getting the flu vaccine this year, just like every year. It’s required at the hospital I work at. We don’t really develop “herd immunity” to influenza, that’s why they have a new vaccination every year. You and your family should get vaccinated because you are likely not wearing masks properly or at all.

I think the real problem is that you think too much and don’t listen enough.


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