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  1. #36976
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    HELENA — One Montana hospital went into lockdown and called police after a woman threatened violence because her relative was denied her request to be treated with ivermectin.

    Officials of another Montana hospital accused public officials of threatening and harassing their health care workers for refusing to treat a politically connected COVID-19 patient with that antiparasitic drug or hydroxychloroquine, another drug unauthorized by the Food and Drug Administration to treat COVID-19.

    And in neighboring Idaho, a medical resident said police had to be called to a hospital after a COVID-19 patient’s relative verbally abused her and threatened physical violence because she would not prescribe ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine, “drugs that are not beneficial in the treatment of COVID-19,” she wrote.

    These three conflicts, which occurred from September to November, underline the pressure on health care workers to provide unauthorized COVID-19 treatments, particularly in parts of the country where vaccination rates are low, government skepticism is high, and conservative leaders have championed the treatments.

    “You’re going to have this from time to time, but it’s not the norm,” said Rich Rasmussen, president and CEO of the Montana Hospital Association. “The vast majority of patients are completely compliant and have good, robust conversations with their medical care team. But you’re going to have these outliers.”

    Even before the pandemic, the health care and social assistance industry — which includes residential care facilities and child day care, among other services — led all U.S. industries in nonfatal workplace violence, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. COVID-19 has made the problem worse, leading to hospital security upgrades, staff training and calls for increased federal regulation.

    Ivermectin and other unauthorized COVID-19 treatments have become a major source of dispute in recent months. Lawsuits over hospitals’ refusals to provide ivermectin to patients have been filed in Texas, Florida, Illinois and elsewhere.

    The ivermectin harassment extends beyond U.S. borders to providers and public health officials worldwide, in such countries as Australia, Brazil and the United Kingdom. Even so, reports of threats of violence and harassment like those recently seen in the Northern Rocky Mountains region have been relatively rare.

    Ivermectin is approved to treat parasites in animals, and low doses of the drug are approved to treat worms, head lice and certain skin conditions in humans. But the FDA has not authorized the drug to treat COVID-19. The agency says that clinical trials are ongoing but that the current data does not show it is an effective COVID-19 treatment and taking higher-than-approved levels can lead to overdose.

    Likewise, hydroxychloroquine can cause serious health problems and the drug does not help speed recovery or decrease the chance of dying of COVID-19, according to the FDA.

    In Missoula, Montana, the Community Medical Center was placed on lockdown and police were called on Nov. 17 after a woman reportedly threatened violence over how her relative was being treated, according to a Police Department statement. Nobody was arrested.

    “The family member was upset the patient was not treated with ivermectin,” Lt. Eddie McLean said Tuesday.

    Hospital spokesperson Megan Condra confirmed on Wednesday that the patient’s relative demanded ivermectin, but she said the patient was not there for COVID-19, though she declined to disclose the patient’s medical issue. The main entrance of the hospital was locked to control who entered the building, Condra added, but the hospital’s formal lockdown procedures were not implemented.

    The scare was reminiscent of one that happened in Idaho in September. Dr. Ashley Carvalho, who is completing her medical residency training in Boise, wrote in an op-ed in the Idaho Capital Sun that she was verbally abused and threatened with both physical violence and a lawsuit by a patient’s relative after she refused to prescribe ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine.

    “My patient was struggling to breathe, but the family refused to allow me to provide care,” Carvalho wrote. “A call to the police was the only solution.”

    An 82-year-old woman who was active in Montana Republican politics was admitted to St. Peter’s Health, the hospital in Helena, with COVID-19 in October. According to a November report by a special counsel appointed by state lawmakers, a family friend contacted Chief Deputy Attorney General Kris Hansen, a former Republican state senator, with multiple complaints: Hospital officials had not delivered a power-of-attorney document left by relatives for the patient to sign, she was denied her preferred medical treatment, she was cut off from her family, and the family worried hospital officials might prevent her from leaving. The patient later died.

    That complaint led to the involvement of Republican Attorney General Austin Knudsen, who texted a lobbyist for the Montana Hospital Association who is also on St. Peter’s board of directors. An image of the exchange was included in the report.

    “I’m about to send law enforcement in and file unlawful restraint charges,” Knudsen wrote to Mark Taylor, who responded that he would make inquiries.

    “This has been going on since yesterday and I was hoping the hospital would do the right thing. But my patience is wearing thin,” the attorney general added.

    A Montana Highway Patrol trooper was sent to the hospital to take the statement of the patient’s family members. Hansen also participated in a conference call with multiple health care providers in which she talked about the “legal ramifications” of withholding documents and the patient’s preferred treatment, which included ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.

    Public Service Commissioner Jennifer Fielder, a former Republican state senator, left a three-minute voicemail on a hospital line saying the patient’s friends in the Senate would not be too happy to learn of the care St. Peter’s was providing, according to the special counsel’s report.

    Fielder and the patient’s daughter also cited a “right to try” law that Montana legislators passed in 2015 that allows terminally ill patients to seek experimental treatments. But a legal analysis written for the Montana Medical Association says that while the law does not require a provider to prescribe a particular medication if a patient demands it, it could give a provider legal immunity if the provider decides to prescribe the treatment, according to the Montana State News Bureau.


    The report did not offer any conclusions or allegations of wrongdoing.

    Hospital officials said before and after the report’s release that their health care providers were threatened and harassed when they refused to administer certain treatments for COVID-19.

    “We stand by our assertion that the involvement of public officials in clinical care is inappropriate; that individuals leveraged their official positions in an attempt to influence clinical care; and that some of the exchanges that took place were threatening or harassing,” spokesperson Katie Gallagher said in a statement.

    “Further, we reviewed all medical and legal records related to this patient’s care and verified that our teams provided care in accordance with clinical best practice, hospital policy and patient rights,” Gallagher added.

    The attorney general’s office did not respond to a request for comment but told the Montana Free Press in a statement that nobody at the state agency threatened anyone.

    Rasmussen, the head of the Montana Hospital Association, said St. Peter’s officials have not reached out to the group for assistance. He downplayed the attorney general’s intervention in Helena, saying it often happens that people who know medical leaders or trustees will advocate on behalf of a relative or friend.

    “Is this situation different? Certainly, because it’s from the attorney general,” Rasmussen said. “But I think the AG was responding to a constituent. Others would reach out to whoever they know on the hospital board.”

    He added that hospitals have procedures in place that allow family members of patients to take their complaints to a supervisor or other hospital leader without resorting to threats.

    Hospitals in the region that have watched the allegations of threats and harassment unfold declined to comment on their procedures to handle such conflicts.

    “We respect the independent medical judgment of our providers who practice medicine consistent with approved, authorized treatment and recognized clinical standards,” said Bozeman Health spokesperson Lauren Brendel.

    Tanner Gooch, a spokesperson for SCL Health Montana, which operates hospitals in Billings, Butte and Miles City, said SCL does not endorse ivermectin or other COVID-19 treatments that haven’t been approved by the FDA but doesn’t ban them, either.

    “Ultimately, the treatment decisions are at the discretion of the provider,” Gooch said. “To our knowledge, no COVID-19 patients have been treated with ivermectin at our hospitals.”

    .
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  2. #36977
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    The police were called by a political leader because the patient “was denied her preferred medical treatment”.

    W. T. F.

  3. #36978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    .
    We’ve had multiple providers receive death threats at my hospital for not treating patients with ivermectin and hcq. Our CEO gets daily death threats. Security has had to escort providers to and from their vehicles. Multiple protests at our partner facility and here. It’s sad and disgusting how fucked up people can be.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  4. #36979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/...e-lock-rattles

    ... 91 per cent of deaths in the contemporary West are from noncommunicable diseases like cancers and strokes and heart attacks, many of them illnesses associated with modern lifestyles. The equivalent figure in sub-Saharan Africa is 34 per cent. We have a generation of leaders in the West who have no visceral understanding of the risks posed by infectious illness.
    Thanks for posting this. Certainly helped me understand some of the behavior I'm seeing around the western world.

  5. #36980
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    Yeah, I've been saying from the start that it's been nearly a century since the developed world has experienced such an easily communicable deadly virus. Aids required intimate contact, this just needs crowded spaces and bad ventilation. It's kind of remarkable, after a century of air travel and crowded to the max cities, but, here we are.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  6. #36981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/...e-lock-rattles

    "For most of history, infectious disease has been one of the central realities of human life. Jared Diamond’s Guns, Germs and Steel (1997) is overly deterministic, but the basic point it makes about the importance of contagious illness to human history remains valid. The map of our planet was shaped by infectious disease: Cortés gets most of the blame/credit, but it was the viruses he brought with him that destroyed the Aztec empire. It’s not just in the past and at population-wide scale that such illnesses have shaped humanity. Both my parents’ lives were fundamentally altered by infectious disease. My father caught polio in childhood in Africa and spent a year in bed with a leg brace; my mother caught tuberculosis as a young woman in Dublin and spent many months in a sanatorium. Her fiancé, whom she’d met in the sanatorium, died. Stories like this were not unusual among people born in the early decades of the last century. One of the main reasons global life expectancy has more than doubled since 1900 is that we have vaccines against diseases such as polio and TB.
    The weird world – Western, educated, industrialised, rich and democratic – has responded poorly to Covid, and part of the reason is that the weird world had been existing at a distance from this central reality of human history. As Adam Tooze points out in his brilliant book Shutdown, 91 per cent of deaths in the contemporary West are from noncommunicable diseases like cancers and strokes and heart attacks, many of them illnesses associated with modern lifestyles. The equivalent figure in sub-Saharan Africa is 34 per cent. We have a generation of leaders in the West who have no visceral understanding of the risks posed by infectious illness. In addition, as David Runciman has pointed out, politicians and government don’t get credit for the disasters and failures they prevent. The combination of these two factors – generational obliviousness and the bias away from the good governance of prevention – goes a long way to explaining why the UK government, despite having had the possibility of pandemic at the top of its risk register since that register was instituted in 2008, was so woefully unprepared for an event it was its job to predict and either prevent or mitigate."
    Well said. People just don't understand it because the shared experience of severe pandemic disease is a faded memory at best, and non-existent for most of the western world.

    Guns Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies was absolutely on target (and a fascinating read), but I disagree that it was "over-deterministic." It is fantastic scholarship and should be required reading for high school history, and his follow on book, Collapse: How Societies Choose to Succeed or Fail, should be required reading for high school civics, or literally any American. The author is amazing in his expertise over the diverse subjects needed to discuss the core ideas of his work.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  7. #36982
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    If people want Ivermectin and HCQ, just give it to them. Not worth getting killed or even hassled over. And while we're at it, ask them what else they want--ventilator? Iv fluids--which fluid and how much? steroids? Get them to sign a statement that they wish to determine their medical treatment and accept the consequences.

  8. #36983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Well said. People just don't understand it because the shared experience of severe pandemic disease is a faded memory at best, and non-existent for most of the western world.

    Guns Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies was absolutely on target (and a fascinating read), but I disagree that it was "over-deterministic." It is fantastic scholarship and should be required reading for high school history, and his follow on book, Collapse: How Societies Choose to Succeed or Fail, should be required reading for high school civics, or literally any American. The author is amazing in his expertise over the diverse subjects needed to discuss the core ideas of his work.
    ^^^Agreed.
    In my own world, my older sister (born 1948) contracted polio, Ms TBS contracted TB while living in Phoenix in late 1950's, and one of my great uncles died in the 1918 pandemic. I can't imagine how there would be 7 billion people on this planet without modern vaccines.

    And besides Guns/Germs/Steel and Collapse I think both 1491 and 1493 should be required reading.

  9. #36984
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post

    I think both 1491 and 1493 should be required reading.
    Thanks- added to the “to read” pile

  10. #36985
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    Could Covid Lead to Progress? https://nyti.ms/3xb62TI

    "What about the more subtle psychological legacy of Covid? How will it change the way we perceive the world — and its risks — when the pandemic finally subsides? I have a memory from May of this year, taking my 17-year-old son to the Javits Center in Manhattan for his first vaccine, followed by a shopping trip to pick out a tie for his (masked, outdoor) senior prom. At some point waiting in line, I made a halfhearted joke about how we were embarking on the classic father-son ritual of heading out to the mass vaccination site to protect him from the plague. I meant it ironically, but the truth is that for my son’s generation, proms and plagues will be part of the rituals of growing up.

    There is a loss of innocence in that, but also a hard-earned realism: the knowledge that rare high-risk events like pandemics are not just theoretically possible but likely, in an increasingly urban and interconnected world of nearly eight billion people. As a parent, you want to protect your children from unnecessary anxieties, but not when the threat in question is a real one. My son’s generation will forever take pandemics as a basic fact of life, and that assumption, painful as it is, will protect him when the next threat emerges. But maybe, if the science unleashed by this pandemic lives up to its promise, his children — or perhaps his grandchildren — could inherit a world where plagues are a thing of the past."

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  11. #36986
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    If people want Ivermectin and HCQ, just give it to them. Not worth getting killed or even hassled over. And while we're at it, ask them what else they want--ventilator? Iv fluids--which fluid and how much? steroids? Get them to sign a statement that they wish to determine their medical treatment and accept the consequences.
    Just give everyone a questionnaire with “list treatments that you want” at admittance and people who ask for ivermectin or HQ are ushered through a door…to the parking lot.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  12. #36987
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    Well, it isn't as though the populus hasn't been conditioned by drug commercials for over a decade that usually state "ask your doctor if the Acme heart/diabetes/cancer/arthritis/ugly rash drug is right for you!"

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  13. #36988
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    Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    If people want Ivermectin and HCQ, just give it to them. Not worth getting killed or even hassled over. And while we're at it, ask them what else they want--ventilator? Iv fluids--which fluid and how much? steroids? Get them to sign a statement that they wish to determine their medical treatment and accept the consequences.
    I imagine a lot of blank stares when asked the follow up, ok how much ivermectin do you want? “I’m sorry, I thought you said you did your own research”.

    Edit - still no one dead from Omicron? Fingers crossed this holds. Also, haven’t seen this posted yet but apparently it shares code with a coronavirus that causes the common cold. https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...-cold-variant/

  14. #36989
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    Infections lag Exposures
    Hospitalizations lag Infections
    Deaths lag Hospitalizations

    Come back in 8 weeks and lets see if there are severe cases and deaths. Hopefully not, but the real question is what happens when it makes it to the unvaccinated+uninfected populations in red zones.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  15. #36990
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    I imagine a lot of blank stares when asked the follow up, ok how much ivermectin do you want? “I’m sorry, I thought you said you did your own research”.

    Edit - still no one dead from Omicron? Fingers crossed this holds. Also, haven’t seen this posted yet but apparently it shares code with a coronavirus that causes the common cold. https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...-cold-variant/
    Not ragging on you, but holy hell is that supposition is less than razor thin and should never have been picked up by any news outlets, it's based on some big hypotheticals using in silico analyses and self-published without any review from a private small biotech co.

    title: Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2 harbors a unique insertion mutation of putative viral or human genomic origin

    NCBI BLAST search to identify homologs to nucleotide sequence encoding Omicron’s ins214EPE

    Aligning the Spike protein nucleotide sequences from Omicron and the reference Wuhan
    SARS-CoV-2 sequences shows that two different nucleotide sequence insertions can give rise to
    the sequencing encoding Omicron’s ins214EPE. These insertion candidates are GAGCCAGAA
    and GCCAGAAGA. A NCBI BLAST search was performed for ‘CGTGAGCCAGAAGAT’ which
    5 includes both the possible insertion candidates (GAGCCAGAA, GCCAGAAGA), using default
    BLAST parameters (word size: 7; match/mismatch: -1/3; gap costs existence/extension: 5/2). The
    search against the database of human genome plus transcriptome database (Human G+T)
    containing 160592 sequences resulted in 763 hits. The search against human coronaviruses —
    HCoV-OC43 (taxid:31631), HCoV-229E (taxid:11137), HCoV-NL63 (taxid:277944), HCoV-229E
    (taxid:11137) — resulted in 709 hits.
    It's a real stretch to imply a 9 nt insertion in Omicron encoding 3 amino acids EPE, a sequence also found 763 times within the human genome, was from a co-infection with HCoV-OC43. The news outlets ran with it and are proclaiming omicron "more like common cold" with decreased virulence because it is now more "OC43" like.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  16. #36991
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    Just say "you do realize HCQ is administered via an injection into your testicles..."

  17. #36992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    <snip> the real question is what happens when it makes it to the unvaccinated+uninfected populations in red zones.
    Oh... I think the virus is going to have a FIELD day when it gets to these places.

  18. #36993
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Oh... I think the virus is going to have a FIELD day when it gets to these places.
    Scrooge McDuck doing the backstroke in a pile of money. That's how the virus is gonna be.

  19. #36994
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    I don't rely on the Daily Mail for much but this is disheartening:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ious-wave.html

    Name:  51357869-10276793-image-a-72_1638701015808.jpg
Views: 222
Size:  72.1 KB

    Better CBS article

    But luckily there is a cure!!!!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Omicron Cure.jpg 
Views:	83 
Size:	119.2 KB 
ID:	395573
    Last edited by Summit; 12-06-2021 at 03:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  20. #36995
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    Say wuht?

  21. #36996
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    It’s science. Look it up.

  22. #36997
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    Fuck, if I finally order that custom Strong titanium with Dura Ace, I'm living forever!

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  23. #36998
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    N+1 = V(1/2)

  24. #36999
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    If you want ivermectin here you go:
    https://covid19criticalcare.com/iver...et-ivermectin/
    No need to get fussy about it.
    Those guys have made millions off of prescribing it. People fight over dumb shit that a quick google search will find.

  25. #37000
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    Maybe because for them fighting is half the point

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