Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[The AD]

Breck and all of its valuable real-estate and entrenched money ain't going anywhere. After the inevitable attrition and backfill, the next crop of poorly valued labor will begin the cycle again as the wealthy and tourists go "next!".

Precisely. These worker bees are expendables.

[Conundrum]

He licks his ass before he eats rabbit shit in the yard before he smooches his ol papa. I have the immune system of a sewer rat.

Don't forget the cat and goose green chocolate delicacies if your dog is anything like mine.

[The AD]

Covid Passports Seen as Key to Resuming International Travel
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...?sref=Jx8HSdU2

[KQ]

[Rideski]

I have empathy for most of these people. The US government isn't supporting them as much as we should and times are going to be hard and hit them disproportionality. So much fail at the federal level - surreal. However, the one guy who is like "the town won't exist anymore!" needs a reality check. Breck and all of its valuable real-estate and entrenched money ain't going anywhere. After the inevitable attrition and backfill, the next crop of poorly valued labor will begin the cycle again as the wealthy and tourists go "next!".

Valid subject but slight tangent.
My point was they’re literally asking “why Home Depot and not restaurants?”
The answer is because you can mask in one and not the other.
How do you eat with a mask on?


On your subject. Yeah totally with you.
My career is crushed, my clients are out of business. I’m paying my mortgage out of savings, have been all year.
I get that some people don’t have savings and that sucks.
I personally know lots of people who are in a tough spot.
I should probably be a little more worried about myself than I am.
I’ve been fixing fences and cutting down trees for cash.
Not that I’m going to do it full time, but a couple customers asked me to rake leaves and I said sure what the hell. $1000 this month raking leaves.
I get that not everyone is able to to that either. If this country was being invaded by a foreign army, shit would be different. Thoughout history, people have been in the position to take it upon themselves to hide in a basement and make a can of soup feed a family of four. Most in America would rather curl up and die.

Or, as an option, If we had successfully shut down the first time and masked up, we could be on the road to recovery.

[MontuckyFried]

Nope.
Covid is good for MRSA. It's usually spread from patient to patient by doctors and nurses not washing hands. With everyone washing, wearing gloves and isolation gowns I expect there will be a lot less MRSA, vancomycin resistant enterococcus, claustridium dificile and the like.

Interesting! So I wonder if one bright side of this whole mess is maybe we'll get kind of a reset on the whole MRSA problem at hospitals. At least a chance to curb that too while we're at it. Thanks. Hadn't heard that take on the topic yet.

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[MontuckyFried]

Overuse of antibiotics causes MRSA (and other antibiotic-resistant bacteria), not sterilization of people and objects with alcohol, bleach or UV. The Hygiene Hypothesis has merit in appropriate contexts, but COVID isn't one of them.

True, true. Good point about antibiotics being the problem with that one.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Nope.
Covid is good for MRSA. It's usually spread from patient to patient by doctors and nurses not washing hands. With everyone washing, wearing gloves and isolation gowns I expect there will be a lot less MRSA, vancomycin resistant enterococcus, claustridium dificile and the like.

Nobody is really doing that much, or anything different when it comes to contact precautions at the hospital. That’s just anecdotal based on my daily experience over the last nine months.

MRSA is in the community and endemic in some populations now so I don’t really think it’s going to change that much because of COVID. Most patients are screened for SA and MRSA on admission.


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[gravitylover]

He licks his ass before he eats rabbit shit in the yard before he smooches his ol papa. I have the immune system of a sewer rat.

I lol'd

[Benny Profane]

I have empathy for most of these people. The US government isn't supporting them as much as we should and times are going to be hard and hit them disproportionality. So much fail at the federal level - surreal. However, the one guy who is like "the town won't exist anymore!" needs a reality check. Breck and all of its valuable real-estate and entrenched money ain't going anywhere. After the inevitable attrition and backfill, the next crop of poorly valued labor will begin the cycle again as the wealthy and tourists go "next!".

Yup. Always be a new crop of college grads or dropouts ready to live the life, before they grow up. And Biden will relax immigration lockdowns so the Aussies and South Americans can come back.

[frorider]

And Biden will relax immigration lockdowns so the hot Brazilians can come back.

hallelujah. Dating pool needs a refresh.

[summit]

This thread got a lot easier to read once I put RJ on ignore!

Have any other states released their tentative roll-out plans like UT? Will the plans of vaccine release be changed with Biden's team in power? Right now distribution order is based on population of the state, which I may have read wrong. Does that mean MT and WY is last or is it actually evenly spread by population of each state at the same time?

Depends on your state and locale as far as if there has been planning. Some of us have been planning for many months and using flu vax distro as a testbed.

To clarify allocations, it is population proportional and relatively simultaneous to all states, not sequential delivery to each state.

I was looking into this the other day. Sounds like vaccines for HCWs might be happening as soon as next month, which is cray-z. But yeah, it also sounds like there is a rough distro plan in place, but no plan as to how to negotiate who gets a vaccine and when. If it is anything like the tests rolled out, we are F-ed in the A!

If next July is the real goal when the general public will be receiving these vaccines, I'd think we are more likely to reach herd mentality (sp).

I keep hearing wild variation on numbers. We could see small amounts of vaccine in CO by 3rd week of Dec in small amounts, or perhaps enough for all of Tier 1 (healthcare, public safety, and nursing home) to be immune (2 doses and a week) by February. Then it is on to Tier 2, with some doses probably being given in January. Tier 2 is high risk and vulnerable, but if you read the definitions, it is over half the vaccinatable population. By Feb we should have 3-4 vaccine manufacturers online instead of just 2. It is concievable that everyone who wants a vaccine will have their jabs done before summer.

SO, let's say we actually do effectively beat COVID back down to practically nil by this time next year, does that mean we're going to get absolutely walloped by the H1N1/H3N2 and other things next year as we inevitably relax all the measures we took this year? I mean, it seems like if we get COVID really well under control that people will all be like "Hooray! Now we can go back to normal!" Enter everything else we WERE used to dealing with but perhaps no longer. Will it be the rise of some sort of "Super Flu"? Just for the record, I'm not trying to downplay COVID right now. Just wondering about the future in regard to other bugs.

Your question is a reasonable thing to wonder about. I'll try to answer it briefly. First you are quite right that the distancing and masking measures for COVID have mostly knocked out most of the respiratory viruses out there except for COVID and Rhinovirus. Does that mean that we are at increased risk of those later? The short answer is minimally so with respect to the fact that people will have caught them less often for maybe 12-18 months because there was masking and distancing. Their temporary decreased prevalence of common respiratory viruses is not going to produce a markedly reduced population level immunity nor a more virulent strain when the transmission reduction strategies are abandoned (people stop wearing masks).

Montucky, I think most of our "herd immunity from the flu" is derived from getting a flu shot rather than from previously having the flu, so simply getting the flu shot should largely address your concern, at least with respect to the flu specifically.

First, there is no herd immunity to the flu.

Second, you are right that herd immunity derives from immunization, not natural acquisition of immunity as part of recovery from infection. Stable and durable herd immunity (community immunity) is not achievable through natural spread.

Third, vaccine uptake is poor for flu with less than half of adults getting jabbed each year, which is why we don't have herd immunity. That and the fact that flu is this mutating swarm of viral strains that mutates about as fast as any virus that we know (at least with respect to antigenic drift). There is never just one immunologically distinct strain... there are many (you can get the flu more than once in season as a result of this). This makes it hard to get herd immunity even by vaccination (perhaps mRNA will change this). The annual flu vaccine is outfitted with the antigens corresponding to what is thought the most likely 4 strains for the upcoming season.

[PB]

hallelujah. Dating pool needs a refresh.

You were gonna say reset but chickened out, din'cha? Yeah, you were.

[Name Redacted]

I'm wondering if in the future, they'll use mRNA approach to vaccine production for the flu as well. Especially since we will have already put in place a distribution system that can deal with the necessary logistics like keeping the vaccine doses cold enough in transport.

[Toadman]

Not that no one could see this coming, but, it's coming...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/covi...201005140.html

[KQ]

Not that no one could see this coming, but, it's coming...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/covi...201005140.html

Such a hugely emotional issue but the way I look at it is I've had over half a century of T-days not to mention Christmas, New Years, Easter, B-days, 4th of July etc. etc. I can skip one T-day if it means I'll have more and if something happens in the ensuing year and I don't get to celebrate another with my Mom well I still have that half century worth of memories and missing this one won't change that. It's just one day, one meal.



Americans, Cancel Thanksgiving Plans To Prevent The Spread Of COVID-19. Love, Canada.


Canadians have a clear message for our southern neighbours ahead of American Thanksgiving celebrations this week: stay home and stay safe.

As Canada continues to weather its worst surge in COVID-19 cases six weeks after Canadian Thanksgiving, many here are warning that our southern neighbors could see an even bigger and more devastating spike following their annual gathering for turkey and gratitudes.

We know, because we’ve already gone through it. One of the oddities of North American calendar scheduling is the dichotomy between so-called Canadian Thanksgiving and American Thanksgiving. The two events are usually celebrated more than a month apart — the former in the second week in October and the latter is mid-to-late November.

That means in the year 2020, hindsight is literally 20-20 when it comes to Canadians and the risk of getting together for the holidays.

COVID-19 cases have spiked across Canada in the past month since Thanksgiving and Halloween. On Oct. 12, Canada had over 185,000 COVID-19 cases. Only six weeks later, that number has nearly doubled, with experts attributed much of the surge to personal gatherings like Thanksgiving dinners.

Canadians and Americans alike are saying the surge is proof that nothing is worth the risk.

Epidemiologist Jennifer Nuzzo told CBS News that Canada’s numbers should serve as a warning to Americans.

“Even without the data from Canada, this is a warning. We have reason to worry about Thanksgiving in the U.S. just on the principles of it,” Nuzzo said.

Thanksgiving dinners are particularly risky when it comes to spreading COVID-19, as they often involve family members traveling from different areas to mingle and share food and drinks in close proximity indoors.

Canadians who did stay home for turkey day are assuring Americans that a smaller Thanksgiving is not the end of the world — you can still eat pumpkin pie with just your household.

Ultimately in the battle of which country’s Thanksgiving is best, we know what the answer is.

Take it from Canadians: nothing beats a safe Thanksgiving this year.

[The AD]

I'd wager that nearly as many people loathe having to get together with their family on Thanksgiving as love it. For many this year is the perfect excuse to bail.

[KQ]

I'd wager that nearly as many people loathe having to get together with their family on Thanksgiving as love it. For many this year is the perfect excuse to bail.

Just this morning I thought: "No need to clean the house, iron the linens, get out the china and polish the silver on top of all the cooking. WIN!"

I anticipate moments of sadness but better moments that will pass quickly than guilt and grief over a death for months/years.

[Lvovsky]

I have empathy for most of these people. The US government isn't supporting them as much as we should and times are going to be hard and hit them disproportionality. So much fail at the federal level - surreal. However, the one guy who is like "the town won't exist anymore!" needs a reality check. Breck and all of its valuable real-estate and entrenched money ain't going anywhere. After the inevitable attrition and backfill, the next crop of poorly valued labor will begin the cycle again as the wealthy and tourists go "next!".

Lack of social safety net is pathetic. Richest country in the world and so many months into pandemic can not find a way to support the affected. Pathetic and sad.

[Toadman]

Gives a whole new meaning to the term, 'mouth breathers'. Dude got literal.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-trump...173331283.html

A supporter of President Donald Trump was charged with misdemeanor assault on Sunday in Loudon County, Virginia, for allegedly breathing heavily on protesters outside Trump National Golf Club.

"Please help," Kathy Beynett wrote in Saturday a tweet that went viral, showing a video of a man — identified by the Loudon County Sheriff's Office as Raymond Deskins — coming toward her without a face covering as she said "get away from me" and "you don't have a mask." It is unclear what exactly happened before the video was recorded.

Deskins, 61, then inhales and exhales deeply and blows his breath toward the protesters. In the video he can be seen wearing an inflatable flotation device around his waist in the shape of Trump.

[snowaddict91]

What the fuck did I just watch. Would mass extinction if the human race be the worst thing ever?

[summit]

Followed the Twitter link in that article and stumbled on this:

Attachment 349629

OMG... 5 hours into a vaccine meeting and I saw this.... spit water on the screen! Hilarious

[rod9301]

Valid subject but slight tangent.
My point was they’re literally asking “why Home Depot and not restaurants?”
The answer is because you can mask in one and not the other.
How do you eat with a mask on?


On your subject. Yeah totally with you.
My career is crushed, my clients are out of business. I’m paying my mortgage out of savings, have been all year.
I get that some people don’t have savings and that sucks.
I personally know lots of people who are in a tough spot.
I should probably be a little more worried about myself than I am.
I’ve been fixing fences and cutting down trees for cash.
Not that I’m going to do it full time, but a couple customers asked me to rake leaves and I said sure what the hell. $1000 this month raking leaves.
I get that not everyone is able to to that either. If this country was being invaded by a foreign army, shit would be different. Thoughout history, people have been in the position to take it upon themselves to hide in a basement and make a can of soup feed a family of four. Most in America would rather curl up and die.

Or, as an option, If we had successfully shut down the first time and masked up, we could be on the road to recovery.

Agree with everything you said, but look at France for example.

In spring, they lockdown severily, nobody could go more than 1km from the house. Cases went way down, but then summer vacation happened, and it got worse than before.
Now the same lockdown.

So human nature being what it is, even with a lot stricter lockdown than we had, the virus still came back.

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[goldenboy]

From what I can tell, most people are doing Thanksgiving as normal, whether it's visiting family or friendsgiving. If Covid was a stock, I'd be buying, it's going to have a good day on Thursday.

[Rideski]

Agree with everything you said, but look at France for example.

In spring, they lockdown severily, nobody could go more than 1km from the house. Cases went way down, but then summer vacation happened, and it got worse than before.
Now the same lockdown.

So human nature being what it is, even with a lot stricter lockdown than we had, the virus still came back.

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Some human nature is different than others. If world war 1 or 2 started today I don’t think we would do as well as we did previously.

France has the extra liability vs many counties of heavy immigration and travel I presume, vs say Australia.

Then some counties have more devoted people. Read an article about the Koreans wondering wtf we were doing with not contact tracing.

Complex issues, that gets into the authoritarian government vs free willie.

Not saying I have the solutions, other than masks and distance seem fairly plausible to help.