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  1. #19826
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty View Post
    "And I'll take that elevator. If we are talking cold-hearted economics, letting COVID run through the population wouldn't be a bad thing. It's not a flat death rate. It's killing the people that are economic negatives on society, not the young and productive."

    The above post is not valid so please don't post in this thread again. Thank you.
    Saying so doesn't make it so. Prove it.

  2. #19827
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    lol, as predicted Ron breaks his promise by moving the goalpost with his otherwise invalid argument.

  3. #19828
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavir...153503886.html
    No one doubts Norway's success in bringing the pandemic under control. On Friday, there were just 30 people in hospital with coronavirus and five on a ventilator. Only one person had died all week. The per capita death toll is now 44 per million people, just over a tenth of that seen in neighbouring Sweden, where 4,971 people have died.

    But this success has come at a prohibitive social and economic cost. An expert committee charged with carrying out a cost-benefit analysis into the lockdown measures in April estimated that they had together cost Norway 27bn kroner (£2.3) every month. With only 0.7 per cent of Norwegians infected, according to NIPH estimates, there is almost no immunity in the population.

    The expert committee concluded last Friday that the country should avoid lockdown if there is a second wave of infections.

    "We recommend a much lighter approach," the committee's head, Steinar Holden, an Oslo University economics professor, told the Sunday Telegraph. "We should start with measures at an individual level -- which is what we have now -- and if there’s a second wave, we should have measures in the local area where this occurs, and avoid measures at a national level if that is possible."

    Norway's current strategy -- using testing, contact tracing, and home isolation to keep the level of infections down without heavy restrictions -- would be best, the report concluded. But if this 'keep down' strategy fails to prevent a surge in cases, a 'brake strategy' which aims to suppress the rate of transmission but not bring it below 1, would be preferable to a lockdown.

    "If it’s necessary to have very strict restrictions for a long time, then the costs are higher than letting the infection go through the population," Holden told the Telegraph. "Because that would be immensely costly."

    According to the report, a brake strategy would cost as much as 234bn kroner (£20bn) less than an "unstable keep-down" scenario, if you assume that those infected gain immunity and that no vaccine is developed until 2023. But it would also lead to a little over 3,000 additional deaths.
    Careful posting stuff like that, you might get kicked out of the club.

  4. #19829
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    Why? I've been making a similar argument, along with plenty of other people, to the one in liv2ski's post here for months and we're still in the club. You haven't brought anything new to the table.

    Jesus loves you Ron! Everyone else thinks you’re an asshole.

  5. #19830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    My father is in his late 70s. He has just an AA. He is still working, and making bank because he has been working with an insurance company for over a decade that is working to move it's database from DOS to the cloud. They skipped the software revolution and my pops is the only guy on the team that understands how the old system works, He has wanted to retire for yers, but they keep paying him more and passing along fat bonuses to keep the dinosaur around. It was supposed to be a 5 year project, but the cloud team of youngsters pricks seems to deem more valuable keep fucking up shit on their end. So pops sticks around to keep the company operating. Fucking old people are totally just a cost to society and we should just be done with them. Right?

    It is fucking idiotic to suggest that the best course of action is to just let the old people die in droves. Even if that made economic sense (it does not) or ethical sense (it does not - just identifies you as a selfish asshole) it would over whelm the morgues and we would have rotting bodies to deal with, so it does not make sanitation sense.

    But trolls gonna troll and claim it is some sort of opposing view. So please just stop bickering with them. They will eventually go away when they become bored. They are only here to get your response.
    Basically the argument against me is highlighting that there is a small % of especially productive older people, while ignoring the economic productivity of the at risk population subset AS A WHOLE.

    And I am not suggesting this is the best course of action. I'm speaking strictly to the economics in response to Adolf's claims.

  6. #19831
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    Just food for thought. I don't think one solution fits every region. The greater the social distancing, low population, I would hope for a better outcome with out the draconian lock down protocol. But what do I know? I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night and I sure as hell don't play a Dr. on TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  7. #19832
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    lol, as predicted Ron breaks his promise by moving the goalpost with his otherwise invalid argument.
    My response isn't invalid, yours was.

    What makes you think I won't keep my word? When have I ever said I would do something and not done it?

  8. #19833
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    Ignore means ignore.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  9. #19834
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    Why? I've been making a similar argument, along with plenty of other people, to the one in liv2ski's post here for months and we're still in the club. You haven't brought anything new to the table.

    Jesus loves you Ron! Everyone else thinks you’re an asshole.
    News to me. Seemed like you were pro lockdown.

  10. #19835
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    Nope. You're months late to the discussion. Even your posts about the serology results from Spain and France were discussed here the week before you began trolling.

    The response to your arguments along with your whinging about your own victimhood, because of course you're the victim, has less to do with content and more to do with people thinking you're a giant asshole.


    To add to the response below, there is and has been a wide array of opinions expressed in this thread. In spite of Ron's self congratulatory opinion of himself, he's brought nothing new to the table.

  11. #19836
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    Nope. You're months late to the discussion. Even your posts about the serology results from Spain and France were discussed here the week before you began trolling.

    The response to your arguments along with your whinging about your victimhood, just means people think you're a giant asshole.
    I was reading the thread long before I started posting in it.

    I'm an asshole because you are a sensitive bunch that don't like any disruption to the groupthink. Please find an example of me being an asshole without being provoked. I'll go away if you do, but you won't be able to find one, just like you can't find a post of mine that isn't valid.

  12. #19837
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    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  13. #19838
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    You will not go away until everyone stops replying and giving you your fix.

    Fuck you.
    Ooof!

  14. #19839
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    is it really possible to be an economic negative because youíre old? fancy nursing homes can cost tens of thousands a month on top of million dollar buy ins. seems like itís just part of the economy that keeps people employed.

    real negatives are either crooks or the supposed job creators who take money out of the system rather than circulating it like the 90 whatever percent.
    They got a name for the winners in the world

    http://procatinator.com/?cat=80

  15. #19840
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    That's one sentence with a period where a comma should be. There are standards--this place is all about proper grammer, speling; and punctuation.
    Iím still learning please be, patientŅ with me

  16. #19841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    You will not go away until everyone stops replying and giving you your fix.

    Fuck you.
    It should be very easy to find a post of mine that isn't valid and make me go away. But no one can. Why?

  17. #19842
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    Quote Originally Posted by ml242 View Post
    is it really possible to be an economic negative because youíre old? fancy nursing homes can cost tens of thousands a month on top of million dollar buy ins. seems like itís just part of the economy that keeps people employed.

    real negatives are either crooks or the supposed job creators who take money out of the system rather than circulating it like the 90 whatever percent.
    That and fulfilling the social contract is what incents people to keep working past 40. If life expectancy fell to 55 the cost to keep 52 year olds on the job would skyrocket. Same thing happens if people lose faith in the system, as they will when they see the elderly being flushed away--even if they claim to agree with the policy today, their own decisions will change going forward if they have less reason to expect to be alive much longer. I don't know much from experience on this virus thing, but I can say with certainty that if you see yourself leaving the planet before the next president leaves office your investment horizon becomes decidedly short.

  18. #19843
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    Nope. You're months late to the discussion. Even your posts about the serology results from Spain and France were discussed here the week before you began trolling.

    The response to your arguments along with your whinging about your own victimhood, because of course you're the victim, has less to do with content and more to do with people thinking you're a giant asshole.


    To add to the response below, there is and has been a wide array of opinions expressed in this thread. In spite of Ron's self congratulatory opinion of himself, he's brought nothing new to the table.
    The idea that we could indiscriminately kill off 1% of the population with zero effects on the economy is laughably stupid.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  19. #19844
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    Nov 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    ...if you assume that those infected gain immunity and that no vaccine is developed until 2023.
    Entire reasoning of that is based on a very unlikely combination: if those infected gain immunity it's because antibodies work (let's say we are 98% confident of that). If antibodies work and there are 100+ vaccines in development and many of those already in testing, several of which have already been shown to produce antibodies, then what are the odds that it takes until 2023 to release a vaccine? 1%? 2%?

    If we don't have a vaccine on the market by this time next year the Finns would be better off picking whichever one or two they like and just approving them for domestic use without further testing than following a strategy that they estimate will kill 3000 people. This suggestion is just as speculative but much more probable.

  20. #19845
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    Quote Originally Posted by ml242 View Post
    is it really possible to be an economic negative because you’re old? fancy nursing homes can cost tens of thousands a month on top of million dollar buy ins. seems like it’s just part of the economy that keeps people employed.

    real negatives are either crooks or the supposed job creators who take money out of the system rather than circulating it like the 90 whatever percent.
    Depends where the money to pay for it comes from. If it's coming from SS and Medicare then it's a negative. If it comes from savings then it's a positive, but when you die those savings are just passed on to the heirs who use those savings in other productive ways.

    You think job creators are negatives??

  21. #19846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    The idea that we could indiscriminately kill off 1% of the population with zero effects on the economy is laughably stupid.
    Sure, but your problem is the virus doesn't kill indiscriminately.

  22. #19847
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    JHC! Is the only value of a citizen the immediate economic benefit to they provide? Sure, Jerrod K said that but I we used to be better. And wiser.

    Rob on ignore. Freedom
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  23. #19848
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    We all know Ron won't keep his promise to stop posting if an argument of his is invalidated. But, in a recent post Ron wrote in response to Adolf Allerbus's argument that killing millions of American would have a severe economic impact said, "Either way your economic argument doesn't work because the majority of deaths from COVID are people who are economic burdens on society."

    Ron's argument is invalid for a number of reasons. For one, a majority is not everybody especially when talking about millions of deaths so even going with Ron's flawed logic some substantial portion of deaths destroy human capital Ron deems economically useful.

    Ron's argument is further invalidated because contrary to his apparent belief, older workers add value to the economy and boost GDP. About 20% of workers over age 65 have a graduate degree and remain in skilled positions while the rest who remain in the workforce add value in too many other ways to list. People 50 and older also have the highest rate of entrepreneurial activity, creating 33% of new businesses which creates more jobs for younger workers.

    Sure nobody likes boomers except boomers (kidding) but many older Americans are economically productive which when combined with the portion of younger people also removed from the work force under a millions of deaths scenario easily invalidates Ron's argument that COVID deaths do not matter economically.
    Don't forget old people are also spending lots of money and have lots of money invested. Both of those things are awfully important in keeping an economy humming along.

  24. #19849
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    ^ Also, many people assume the ratio of old to young affected by COVID is static. As people adapt to circumstance, and higher-risk people take more precautions, while lower risk people relax their vigilance, then the ratio of confirmed cases will shift towards the young, which is what we're seeing now.

    The hospitalization rate and death rate to hospitalization rate will go down if new infections average younger, but it's tendentious to simply assume young people are not at risk.

  25. #19850
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    Ronny J.
    Putting the fear and the loathing into the rat flu.
    One shit poast at a time
    ďLife has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.Ē
    Hunter S. Thompson

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