Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

**wooley12** · 07-13-2020, 10:07 PM

You are a very busy boy. Bet you've heard that before.

Seriously rethinking the Census job. Curve going the wrong way. Me being high risk. 2 hours in a class. Rule of 3 is it for safe back country travel? When to bail.

**Tri-Ungulate** · 07-13-2020, 10:14 PM

So, ummm puregravity - do ya have any formal training in biology, or statistics? Just wondering.

**old goat** · 07-13-2020, 10:17 PM

Buried in this article about deploying the Guard to collect hospital data is a stunner--hospital data on Covid hospitalizations and deaths will no longer be reported to the CDC, but to a federal contractor or their state. Trump is desperate to keep the public from knowing the true impact of covid 19. It won't work.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...mments-wrapper

The next move will be to make Covid 19 data classified.

**pureantigravity** · 07-13-2020, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate

So, ummm puregravity - do ya have any formal training in biology, or statistics? Just wondering.

Good question! LOL.
But did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

**Tri-Ungulate** · 07-13-2020, 10:19 PM

I'll take that as a no.

**Buster Highmen** · 07-13-2020, 10:27 PM

I think he's an expert on coastal winds.

**old goat** · 07-13-2020, 10:29 PM

Under Newsom's order for CA, among other businesses and activities protests are banned in 30 counties. I can see making rules for protests--distancing, masks, outdoors, no guns--but banning them altogether is a step way too far for me. I realize that enforcing rules at a protest would be problematic but the right to protest is too fundamental to what America is or at least what we think it is.

**wooley12** · 07-13-2020, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

I think he's an expert on coastal winds.

And outerwear.

**splat** · 07-13-2020, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

Buried in this article about deploying the Guard to collect hospital data is a stunner--hospital data on Covid hospitalizations and deaths will no longer be reported to the CDC, but to a federal contractor or their state. Trump is desperate to keep the public from knowing the true impact of covid 19. It won't work.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...mments-wrapper

The next move will be to make Covid 19 data classified.

Yes, that's called a Brazilian file cabinet.

**Rideski** · 07-13-2020, 10:39 PM

Click image for larger version.

Name: 9203F890-6A88-40C3-B4FC-D9D82FD18322.jpg
Views: 114
Size: 656.7 KB
ID: 334619

**splat** · 07-13-2020, 10:43 PM

Copefully, Cuomo finds way to rub Chump's nose in it like it's a pile of dog shit.

**bodywhomper** · 07-13-2020, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

Under Newsom's order for CA, among other businesses and activities protests are banned in 30 counties. I can see making rules for protests--distancing, masks, outdoors, no guns--but banning them altogether is a step way too far for me. I realize that enforcing rules at a protest would be problematic but the right to protest is too fundamental to what America is or at least what we think it is.

The rule bans indoor protests, but not outdoor protests. I believe this was part of the ban because there were indoor gatherings and political rallies occurring or being planned that were being called “protests” as a straw man plow in case they were banned

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID...-COVID-19.aspx

**Tri-Ungulate** · 07-13-2020, 10:57 PM

WTF is a "Boyfriend Cliff?"

Name: c12087fa99f9543f4b81009dbb819051.jpg
Views: 590
Size: 16.5 KB

KQ · 07-13-2020, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

Under Newsom's order for CA, among other businesses and activities protests are banned in 30 counties. I can see making rules for protests--distancing, masks, outdoors, no guns--but banning them altogether is a step way too far for me. I realize that enforcing rules at a protest would be problematic but the right to protest is too fundamental to what America is or at least what we think it is.

I suspect part of banning protests is to mollify the right who have been complaining about BLM people gathering in large numbers while good religious folk can't go to church.

KQ · 07-13-2020, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by bodywhomper

The rule bans indoor protests, but not outdoor protests. I believe this was part of the ban because there were indoor gatherings and political rallies occurring or being planned that were being called “protests” as a straw man plow in case they were banned

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID...-COVID-19.aspx

This too. Basin city WA held a rodeo but called it a "freedom protest" so they could get away with it.

**Tri-Ungulate** · 07-13-2020, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by funkendrenchman

Originally Posted by Mofro261

A little more science regarding the importance of the Renin Angiotensin Aldosterone System (RAS), and its role in causing disease symptoms of COVID19, both systematically and in local organ tissues. ACE2 has a critical role in converting a signaling peptide called Angiotensin II or AngII into a signaling peptide called Ang1-7. Higher levels of AngII lead to activation of pro-inflammatory responses, along with pro-fibrotic, vasoconstrictive, and coagulation pathways. Ang1-7 has the opposite or counter regulatory actions ie anti-inflammatory, to dampen the AngII signaling response. The balance between these 2 peptides is skewed in disease states including Hypertension, Diabetes, Obesity, and heart disease- these people have less Ace2, and therfore more AngII. ACE2 also varies by age and ethnicity, with higher expression in children and lower expression in the elderly. This occurs with less than a 2-fold change in Ace2 expession levels.

Ace2 is the primary virus receptor, and is internalized and down regulated in cells that the virus attaches to. This down regulation of Ace2 leads to higher AngII levels and skews the RAS axis towards production of cytokines that initiate a disease state.

Under this hypothesis, people with normal or higher levels of Ace2 are able to avoid the severity of disease as they retain sufficient Ace2 to moderate AngII, despite having more potential virus receptors. Because Sars2 has high affinity for Ace2, it still is able to infect cells expressing lower levels of Ace2 but the downregulation tilts the RAS axis towards an activated immune state.

What is the thinking about what causes cytokine storms in extremely fit 30-40-somethings? Still related to Ace2?

Well, if the model described by mofro is correct (and I do think it has some merit and bears requoting), the relative imbalance of AngII to Ang1-7 is partially mediated by age and comorbidity (diabetes, hypertension, obesity, etc), but for the "extremely fit 30-40-somethings" you inquire about, there will also be variation in ACE2 levels in all individuals, regardless.

But IMO it's a fair bit more complicated than the ACE2 turnkey hypothesis. I believe numerous additional variables exist, both genetic in origin (probably related to HLA type, at least in part) as well as prior exposure history (probably related to memory B-cell response, as well as T-cell response LegoSkier's team and others are investigating). These are inextricably intertwined, and exceedingly complex to tease out in a research setting.

The schematic Yonder_River posted is okay based on our current understanding of the situation. I gotta admit, I appreciate but am not a huge fan of the MedCram.com dude, in that I feel he may be prone to making sweeping generalizations that come across as definitive statements. Kinda like I'm doing to him. That being said, I suppose there isn't a lot of harm in trialing prophylactic antioxidants like n-acetylcysteine, and VitD et al, just that I'm cautious about asserting how effective that approach might be. The field of antioxidant research is historically littered with disappointments.

**old goat** · 07-14-2020, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by bodywhomper

The rule bans indoor protests, but not outdoor protests. I believe this was part of the ban because there were indoor gatherings and political rallies occurring or being planned that were being called “protests” as a straw man plow in case they were banned

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID...-COVID-19.aspx

Thanks--the article I read in the Sac Bee left out the indoor part. I'll calm down in a day or two. Who ever heard of an indoor protest?--other than taking over a college administration building back in the Vietnam era, which didn't seem to have much effect on stopping the war. And I guess I remember some protesters taking over a lawmaker's office, but other than that . . .