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  1. #36526
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    Thanks! That kind of c&p is a bitch with my phone.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  2. #36527
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    Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    I got this.


    Hey, it’s shorter than bodywhomper’s posts in the wildfire thread.


    Sry. I need an editor

  3. #36528
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post


    Sry. I need an editor
    No you don't

  4. #36529
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    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/u...is-alaska.html

    In Alaska’s Covid Crisis, Doctors Must Decide Who Lives and Who Dies

    -Amid the nation’s worst Covid-19 outbreak, patients are trapped in remote communities and doctors are prioritizing treatment based on who is most likely to survive.

    There was one bed coming available in the intensive care unit in Alaska’s largest hospital.

    It was the middle of the night, and the hospital, Providence Alaska Medical Center in Anchorage, had been hit with a deluge of coronavirus patients. Doctors now had a choice to make: Several more patients at the hospital, most of them with Covid-19, were in line to take that last I.C.U. spot. But there was also someone from one of the state’s isolated rural communities who needed to be flown in for emergency surgery.

    Who should get the final bed?

    Dr. ​​Steven Floerchinger gathered with his colleagues for an agonizing discussion. They had a better chance of saving one of the patients in the emergency room, they determined. The other person would have to wait.

    That patient died.

    “This is gut-wrenching, and I never thought I’d see it,” said Dr. ​​Floerchinger, who has been in practice for 30 years. “We are taxed to a point of making decisions of who will and who will not live.”

    ——

    fuuck that sounds bad in those hospitals. And next comes cold and flu season.

  5. #36530
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    Dr. Sanjay Gupta: Pandemic proofing your life is not what you think

    (CNN)I have bad news for you: We're stuck with this novel coronavirus in our environment perhaps indefinitely. And there might be another, more deadly and contagious pathogen right behind it that's poised to dart around the world and stir yet another pandemic. But here's the good news: Pandemic proofing your life is easier than you think, and it's not about building a bunker or megadosing on supplements and waiting white-knuckled for the next booster shot. A remarkable suit of armor is already within you.

    In the midst of a global pandemic, we've all changed. I joke that you've either become a chunk, monk, hunk or drunk. But seriously, what surprised me in my research into how we can prevent serious illness and death -- and prepare for the next globetrotting scourge -- is the key role diets play in our immune system and response to any infection, not just Covid.

    As we all know, Covid has shined a big light on the difference between people who contract the virus with underlying conditions already and those who are otherwise healthy. But the conversation often unfairly revolves around obesity, which has the unfortunate result of objectifying and stigmatizing people. The recent uproar over comments made by the CEO of the salad chain Sweetgreen is a testament to how divisive this conversation can become. More importantly, it does a disservice to it because the connection between obesity and Covid mortality is complicated.

    To be clear, suggesting that stamping out obesity will somehow be easier than mass vaccination, which the Sweetgreen CEO seemed to do, is patently false. But a deeper dive into nearly two years' worth of data tells an important story that does not need to focus on weight or body size; and this one that doesn't get enough attention.

    More than a third of Americans have what's called metabolic syndrome, and that number increases to nearly half of those age 60 and over. That's a lot of vulnerable hosts for a stealthy pathogen. You don't even have to be a single pound overweight to have metabolic syndrome, which refers to a cluster of common conditions that increase the risk of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, sleep apnea, liver and kidney disease, cancer, Alzheimer's, and dying from an infection. In addition to excess body mass, these conditions include high blood pressure, abnormal cholesterol levels, and high blood sugar -- the invisible signs of an unhealthy body. And if you can check these three boxes regardless of weight, you qualify as having the syndrome, which is easily stoked and perpetuated by diet. Many medical experts say that metabolic syndrome may be the most common and serious condition you've never heard of, and yet it's playing mightily into people's outcomes from Covid.

    So, how does your diet adversely affect immune function? Some of it is direct. Food can spark or, conversely, subdue levels of inflammation. Our daily sustenance also constantly serves and regulates your intestinal microbiome -- the gut's internal "friendly" germ factory that plays mightily into immunity.

    Studies in the past year alone have highlighted the significance of the microbiome in people's prognosis with Covid. Associations found between gut microbiota composition (that is, strains and volume of species) and levels of inflammatory markers in patients with Covid suggest that the gut microbiome is involved in determining the magnitude of the infection. In other words, a significant predictor of just how ill you are likely to become is the status of your gut microbiome at the time you are infected. And, there is little question that metabolic dysfunction is associated with an imbalanced gut flora.

    That also seems to be true for what happens to people after Covid-19 has cleared the body.
    The health of the gut's biome could be a major cause of long-hauler or post-Covid symptoms -- brain fog, fatigue, and other persistent symptoms that remain after the initial infection runs its course. All of this means one of the easiest, most effective hacks to boost your immunity and protect yourself against disease in general is to eat healthier to keep weight in check, nurture your microbiome, and support a humming metabolism.

    No, salads won't replace vaccines or masks, but they are a terrific complement to all the other preventive measures we can take to stay out of harm's way. Pretty painless for a significant payoff.

    I know that deep down, you already understand that eating muffins or doughnuts with a mochaccino every morning for breakfast probably isn't going to get you where you really need to go. Diets may seem confusing, but food isn't. The key to remaking your metabolism involves changing how you think about food in the first place. Food is at the center of a grand intersection: it can hurt, and it can heal. For most of my life, I simply thought of food as fuel, just calories for energy, made up of micronutrients and macronutrients ("building blocks"). Over the past decade, though, I have come to understand and appreciate food as a tool for epigenetic expression, or how my diet and genome interact. Because food is the one piece of information we all have to give our body every day, we have to be sure we send the right information that works with it and supports healthy pathways -- not harmful or self-destructive ones.

    It should come as no surprise that the typical Western diet -- high in salt, sugar, calories, and saturated fats -- is not friendly to our physiology. As the research concludes, a plant-based diet that is rich in a variety of fresh whole fruits and vegetables, particularly berries and green leafy vegetables, is associated with better health. I know you have heard this countless times, and you may be numb to it. I am too.

    But there are a few simple statistics I often share with my patients to make the point. For instance, if you increase your fruit intake by just one serving a day, this can reduce your risk of dying from a cardiovascular event by 8%, the equivalent of 60,000 fewer deaths annually in the United States and 1.6 million fewer deaths globally. There are few medications that offer that much impact so easily. And, now you can be sure that a regular handful of berries or a juicy apple can also reduce your risk of experiencing a severe illness from an infection like Covid and its future siblings.

    I realize that changing your diet in an effort to optimize your health will take some time -- and it should. I kept a food journal a few years ago to figure out new foods I could add to my diet to diversify my microbiome. I learned that fermented foods like pickles are my secret weapon. I now regularly snack on them to boost my productivity and energy. Find something similar for you.

    Don't start by trying to break a bad habit and deprive yourself of the foods you love even though they don't wear health halos; instead, simply begin by introducing a good new habit like choosing more nutrient-dense, minimally processed foods with less refined sugars and flours. This will automatically move you away from ultra-processed food full of preservatives and additives that carpet bomb the good bacteria in your gut, while allowing harmful bacteria to thrive. Find a new food, something different, and make it part of your routine today. (And you'll also likely have an easier time heading up the stairs, waking up with more energy, and just feeling better tomorrow.)

    For too long, we have been lulled into the false belief that wealth can buy health. It is why we wait for the vaccine instead of more fully adopting simple strategies to best protect ourselves every day. In the wake of this pandemic, we will need to analyze how we nourish ourselves at a deeper level than we have ever done in the past. Think about it. The food you eat today can lay the groundwork for pandemic proofing your body in the future.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  6. #36531
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    ^^
    YES!!! Most excellent post, KQ. Thanks for sharing.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

  7. #36532
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    Wow!! Eating healthy is good. Now, how to do it when eating crap is profitable and cheap.

    Getting my booster tomorrow.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  8. #36533
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Wow!! Eating healthy is good. Now, how to do it when eating crap is profitable and cheap.

    Getting my booster tomorrow.
    But it can be tricky according to my friend the supplement junkie. Had a convo with her today about all the fruits and veggies that cause inflammation in the body. The list of things she won't eat is long. Corn, peppers, tomatoes, potatoes........ but hey... drinking a bottle of wine a night is good.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  9. #36534
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    But it can be tricky according to my friend the supplement junkie. Had a convo with her today about all the fruits and veggies that cause inflammation in the body. The list of things she won't eat is long. Corn, peppers, tomatoes, potatoes........ but hey... drinking a bottle of wine a night is good.
    Ahhh, the old “nightshades are poison” canard…
    Agree that corn, esp in condensed forms, is tough on liver/pancreas. Thank the American Corn Lobby for using taxpayer subsidies to make it so cheap

    The Gupta article was good but ignored that eating healthy is expensive, and even tougher for poor people in food deserts. Carbs and LDLs are the cheapest, least perishable form of calories.

  10. #36535
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    Unfortunately, what passes for healthy eating these days are fad diets, untested* supplements, unproven "miracle foods", etc.

    *Untested in 2 senses--untested as to whether the supplement does what it is purported to do, and untested as to whether the supplement in question contains what it claims to contain and doesn't contain anything harmful.

  11. #36536
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    But what about "all things in moderation"?
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  12. #36537
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    I notice this report is remarkably short on numbers. How does a person with metabolic syndrome compare to one without when it comes to Covid outcomes (infection, hospital, death), controlled for other confounding factors? A related question - for those with metabolic syndrome who set out to change it, how much Covid efficacy is seen in 6 weeks, 6 months, etc?

    I'm getting at is: a poke in the arm is 100% effective at delivering >90% efficacy vs hospital or death, and 95% against symptomatic infection (though pfizer declines by half over 6 months). My understanding is diet changes are minimally effective over 6 months, and the efficacy of diet change vs covid is unknown (in this article).

  13. #36538
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    In my personal opinion we should be directing people to vegetables more than fruit (both have fiber and vitamins but *in general fruits have more sugar)

    And then - within vegetables - we shouldn’t just give a blanket “all vegetables are good for you - eat as much as you like. They’re veggies!”

    Diet and metabolism are complicated. Unfortunately we are taught that they're simple. And our instincts tell us they are simple. But they’re not.

    At the same time we overly complicated things when searching for a shortcut via supplements and special pills.

    And all the old adages like “all things in moderation” can be true to some degree but that is way too simple - what does moderation mean with regards to kale vs caramel cheesecake?

    We need to be teaching kids more about this in school - and not have that education be directed by farm lobbyists.

  14. #36539
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    In my personal opinion we should be directing people to vegetables more than fruit (both have fiber and vitamins but *in general fruits have more sugar)

    And then - within vegetables - we shouldn’t just give a blanket “all vegetables are good for you - eat as much as you like. They’re veggies!”

    Diet and metabolism are complicated. Unfortunately we are taught that they're simple. And our instincts tell us they are simple. But they’re not.

    At the same time we overly complicated things when searching for a shortcut via supplements and special pills.

    And all the old adages like “all things in moderation” can be true to some degree but that is way too simple - what does moderation mean with regards to kale vs caramel cheesecake?

    We need to be teaching kids more about this in school - and not have that education be directed by farm lobbyists.
    Rec for daily intake is 2.5 cups veggies and 2 cups fruit.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  15. #36540
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Rec for daily intake is 2.5 cups veggies and 2 cups fruit.
    But who makes that “rec”?

    And why fruit - is there something vital that fruit has that veggies don’t? Why not 4 cups of veggies and 0.5 of fruit?

    A lot of the recommendations we cling to have been around since the 50s and 60s. Obesity, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, heart disease/strokes etc - the rates have all just steadily increased in the population since then.

    I’m not saying it’s easy. Or that I have all the answers. It’s very complicated.

  16. #36541
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Unfortunately, what passes for healthy eating these days are fad diets, untested* supplements, unproven "miracle foods", etc.
    SERIOUSLY. That's been one of my biggest frustrations in having this argument with friends. People think they eat super "healthy" because they buy processed junk in a box that's stamped "organic", "gluten free," "keto friendly," etc. and pop a bunch of manufactured supplements. It's maddening.

    In my family, our mantra is pretty simply: Whole foods. We try to cook from scratch as much humanly possible. Practically no processed foods in our house. No fast food or "junk food." LOADS of fresh fruits and veggies. Good balance of meats and fish (primarily salmon and tuna), but not overdoing it either. Lots of homemade kickass broths a la Japanese ramen shops that we simmer for days with locally sourced beef/chicken/pork/fish bones and other beneficial ingredients (our house does stink sometimes hehe). I could go on.

    I know we went through this last summer extensively, but KQ's post has brought it up again and it IS worth revisiting. I think one of the biggest problems we face is the average American diet. I'm pretty well travelled (as are many here), and have admired a lot about how different cultures eat, and have tried to adopt key things from many of them. We've incorporated mostly Japanese style eating, but do a mix of stuff from around the world routinely. Feels really well balanced and I feel healthier than ever to be perfectly honest. Don't forget, the old saying "you are what you eat" is totally true. Every cell in your body is constructed from the materials that you put into it. Put in crap, get crap cells. Put in quality foods, get healthier cells. Yeah, yeah. Can't discount genetics, but eating well levels the playing field substantially.

  17. #36542
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    Let me be perfectly clear. Eating well is always a good thing. Shaming for not eating well is never ok. There are so many factors involved that people refuse to address. "They" tend to prefer to see it as a moral failure of the individual rather than a systemic failure. Eating well by itself is never an acceptable reason not to get the vaccine as it is merely a component of a layered defense, especially towards future unknowns, which Gupta does not stress highly enough. Bozos gonna read Gupta and they gonna bozo.

  18. #36543
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    Eating well by itself is never an acceptable reason not to get the vaccine as it is merely a component of a layered defense, especially towards future unknowns, which Gupta does not stress highly enough.
    I don't think anybody here is arguing that, and perhaps you missed Gupta's overarching point: That we live in a world of dangerous pathogens. Always have. Always will. So you might as well stack the odds in your favor, and good nutrition's one of the best possible ways to do that. Won't just help you survive Covid, but may also help your odds against all the other leading causes of death, ie heart disease, diabetes, etc.

    Our society these days is so laser focused on Covid alone that it's almost like we forgot about all the other killers out there. Hell, our country only became MORE unhealthy over the course of 2020 thanks to people being sedentary and ordering out more than ever before.

  19. #36544
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    I don't think anybody here is arguing that, and perhaps you missed Gupta's overarching point: That we live in a world of dangerous pathogens. Always have. Always will. So you might as well stack the odds in your favor, and good nutrition's one of the best possible ways to do that. Won't just help you survive Covid, but may also help your odds against all the other leading causes of death, ie heart disease, diabetes, etc.

    Our society these days is so laser focused on Covid alone that it's almost like we forgot about all the other killers out there. Hell, our country only became MORE unhealthy over the course of 2020 thanks to people being sedentary and ordering out more than ever before.
    Actually, the person here arguing exactly that has been you.

  20. #36545
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    Actually, the person here arguing exactly that has been you.
    Am I now? Reread my posts. Please enlighten me.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

  21. #36546
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Am I now? Reread my posts. Please enlighten me.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Hey that's how I interpret everything you have said in here when put together. My bad if I am wrong.

  22. #36547
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    Was lucky to grow up in a house that emphasized zero processed foods; money was tight (parents had started a small business) so along the way I learned about how cheaply you can feed yourself if you emphasize certain vegetables/grains/proteins. But IMO there’s no getting around the fact that it takes time to prep and cook, and I completely understand the struggle many families have today as they juggle jobs, commutes, expensive day care.

    I guess what I’m saying is I see shitloads of families who appear to rely on fast food, which bums me out, but I try to empathize with their situation.

    There’s also the food-as-drug angle. I still remember a vivid article about a single mom with 4 kids, barely scraping by. Once or twice a week they’d go out and gorge themselves on fast food. It was the emotional high point of the week—to actually feel totally full, with a salty fatty food high. Rest of the week was pretty desolate.

    Food discussions historically are entwined with privilege, well before Whole Foods was born.

  23. #36548
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    This is probably a side track for the Nutrition thread but I am fascinated by the new research about how weight loss or weight control is not just about calories in - calories out.


    I’m all for the following to start working on the obesity problem:

    - Teach cooking (home ec.) in schools again
    - Reduce the amount of processed food served in school
    - Regulating the US food market to encourage healthy eating (IE- sin tax on food we know is bad ala cigarettes and alcohol)
    - Universal healthcare to address prevention

    My prediction is that the conversation goes right to “you can’t tell me or my kids what to eat!”.

    (I know it will, because that’s what happened last time the government attempted to address the root of obesity which is eating habits.)


    And trust me, if people could get a shot or wear a simple, cheap device to solve their weight problem they would.

  24. #36549
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    And agriculture subsidies for bad food sources. Legalized bribery in the form of lobbying for whole industries that shut down any meaningful attempts to regulate and educate. No laws against advertising the shit out of unhealthy food/fast food. Food deserts. Lobbying and politics that prevents SNAP from providing only healthy foods. An economy that rewards privilege with more privilege instead of addressing the root causes. A feedback loop in the food and beverage industry that drives unhealthy food. A lack of laws regulating what can be considered food. An economy that creates a working poor class. Lack of an adequate social safety net.

  25. #36550
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    But who makes that “rec”?

    And why fruit - is there something vital that fruit has that veggies don’t? Why not 4 cups of veggies and 0.5 of fruit?

    A lot of the recommendations we cling to have been around since the 50s and 60s. Obesity, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, heart disease/strokes etc - the rates have all just steadily increased in the population since then.

    I’m not saying it’s easy. Or that I have all the answers. It’s very complicated.
    actualy its not that complicated

    A diet is what you eat not something you go on before that cruise

    so improve your diet eat less food, eat less foods with processed sugar and move more
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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