Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[GeezerSteve]

Got a thing from the California Medical Board reminding docs that they cannot discriminate based on age, disability, assumptions about the quality of life. . . etc. * * * Very unhelpful IMO.

So, in other words, don't perform triage. WTF? What are you supposed to do? Flip a coin?

[huckbucket]

It's not as though they dont have wi fi. Jump off at the next port.

But these arent two month cruises right now. C'mon. There's a boat out there stranded that loaded last week.

Maybe we should just send the USS Delaware to the gulf to sink those fuckers.

[MultiVerse]

Here at the Branch Covidian compound in beautiful (today at least) Londonderry VT, we are selecting such individuals to join our fellowship:
Covid resistant individuals to spread God's message through future pandemics.

Your messaging might be a little blasé. Florida pastors are still drawing big crowds with more apocalyptic screeds, maybe try:

There is still hope, everyone!
Repent now, Philistines!
“For what does it profit a man to avoid the COVID and forfeit his soul?”

[Timberridge]

Maybe we should just send the USS Delaware to the gulf to sink those fuckers.

and chum the area first?

[Core Shot]

So, in other words, don't perform triage. WTF? What are you supposed to do? Flip a coin?

No. Just make a rational assessment

Sucks for docs on front line.

DNR and DNI are two different requests.
But these days a DNI is tough. If you bag them or put on cpap you end up spewing into the whole room.

Hard times. Hard decisions.

[Benny Profane]

Maybe we should just send the USS Delaware to the gulf to sink those fuckers.

Hey, those things were disgusting disease breeders before all this. Can't fix stupid, especially when someone is dangling 24/7 all inclusive food at them.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Remember the good old days when it was suggested that old people should die to save the economy?

It was nine days ago.

[Rideski]

JAMA article outlining how 6 feet is not enough in some cases

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763852

[Meathelmet]

Maybe we should just send the USS Delaware to the gulf to sink those fuckers.

Well, you can't send USS Zumwalt as the main gun is out of order. Ram em with the USGCG Polar Star, Roman style?

[Rideski]

No. Just make a rational assessment

Sucks for docs on front line.

DNR and DNI are two different requests.
But these days a DNI is tough. If you bag them or put on cpap you end up spewing into the whole room.

Hard times. Hard decisions.

No worries, just keep telling people no need to wash their groceries, we’ll all be fine. It certainly won’t result in any more work for your wife at all.

[MontuckyFried]

I'm seeing multiple reports that the Chinese wet markets are open for business again, complete with their usual fair of bats and dogs. Seriously, China. Knock it the f*#k off already!!!

[BCMtnHound]

In a time of limited resources when decisions have to be the usual calculation is life-years saved. If you have two patients and one ventilator it's a no brainer to give the vent to the younger healthier person--their life is more likely to be saved and they have more life years to save. That isn't to say that a year of an old person's life is worth less than a year of a young person's life. It assumes that the value is the same--the difference is the number of years potentially saved. In a philosophical, sociological sense valuing lives this way is very unappealing but when decisions have to be made I don't see a better way. Do you?

Got a thing from the California Medical Board reminding docs that they cannot discriminate based on age, disability, assumptions about the quality of life, sex, race, etc. I assume this was in response to the talk about having to make triage decisions if vents or icu beds are inadequate to treat everyone. They said they'd be keeping a close eye on things. The message said nothing about the need to make triage decisions or how to make them, just that every doctor has to do their utmost for their individual patient. I took the message as threatening docs that make a triage decision based on age or disability (I'm thinking of disabilities that affect the chance of survival--like severe emphysema, not something like Down's syndrome.) Very unhelpful IMO.

I would hope that our physicians are supported in their protocols and resulting decisions in determining when and to whom limited specialized care is provided. I am sure there are a myriad of contributing factors, beyond just age, when a healthcare professional is trying to triage care during such a pandemic. The choice of forgoing care to a 70yr old in favour of treatment to a 20yr old of similar health would be a horrible one, but this is a decision when both are already sick and under a physician's care.

This is entirely separate from members of the public (even high ranking politician) getting on a soapbox, and saying that the elderly 'must take one for the team' and unduly expose themselves to actually contracting this virus. Especially for purely selfish 'economic' reasons. Especially when that person at the pulpit is extremely affluent, can easily self-isolate or otherwise receive care that would be unavailable to the unwashed masses.

The value of a person in a community is far beyond their individually garnered paycheque, the retired and otherwise unengaged posters on TGR notwithstanding

[The AD]

Remember the good old days when it was suggested that old people should die to save the economy?

None of the old people would go along with it and now the economy is fucked. Thanks Jimmy Carter!

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

I'm seeing multiple reports that the Chinese wet markets are open for business again, complete with their usual fair of bats and dogs. Seriously, China. Knock it the f*#k off already!!!

texan looks up from his plate of rattlesnake and bull balls and says wut?

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

None of the old people would go along with it and now the economy is fucked. Thanks Jimmy Carter!

lulz

[bennymac]

Got a thing from the California Medical Board reminding docs that they cannot discriminate based on age, disability, assumptions about the quality of life. . . etc. * * * Very unhelpful IMO.

Triage is gonna happen - it's already happening - right now people are not getting ventilators and ICU beds because of age, disability, quality of life etc. All that statement says to me is that the medical board is covering their ass from lawsuits and can now say "well we told the doctors not to do that - sue them not us"

[gretch6364]

texan looks up from his plate of rattlesnake and bull balls and says wut?

As for the rattle snake part...I am sure most mags get it, but there is a big difference between hunting wild game and eating, and buying it at a wet market in China. It is illegal in the US to sell game meat.

[The AD]

As for the rattle snake part...I am sure most mags get it, but there is a big difference between hunting wild game and eating, and buying it at a wet market in China. It is illegal in the US to sell game meat.

I've been wondering about this. So what is the big difference? Is there something inherently more dangerous about the kinds of meat people are getting at these Chinese markets than any other kind of wild game?

[Deebased]

Triage is gonna happen - it's already happening - right now people are not getting ventilators and ICU beds because of age, disability, quality of life etc. All that statement says to me is that the medical board is covering their ass from lawsuits and can now say "well we told the doctors not to do that - sue them not us"

Sue Trump.

[Benny Profane]

I'm seeing multiple reports that the Chinese wet markets are open for business again, complete with their usual fair of bats and dogs. Seriously, China. Knock it the f*#k off already!!!

You gotta eat.

[4matic]

I've been wondering about this. So what is the big difference? Is there something inherently more dangerous about the kinds of meat people are getting at these Chinese markets than any other kind of wild game?

It’s sanitation. Ever look in the kitchen of a Chinese restaurant?

[BCMtnHound]

I've been wondering about this. So what is the big difference? Is there something inherently more dangerous about the kinds of meat people are getting at these Chinese markets than any other kind of wild game?

Based solely off of internet pics, but the big thing I see is trapped/caged live wild animals being offered at those markets. Not only are they allowed to sell wild meat, but also the care to the caged animals is unregulated. At least in this jurisdiction, sale of wild animals or wild meat is verbotten. Domesticated animals have stringent, and overall reasonably enforced, animal welfare and handling requirements to help prevent sick animals from going to market. And various species of domestic animal are also separated at most western agriculture facilities, so cross-contamination should occur far less.

[bodywhomper]

my point is that the models are changing with time, they seem to be parametrized/trained with observations. for instance, since sunday, FL's peaks have moved to sooner dates and the severities have increased. California's have done the opposite.

So what are the problems with this modelling? https://covid19.healthdata.org/

it's showing states, like FL, who have not been instituting stronger mitigation gettting worse and worse every day, higher severity and peak coming sooner. Now that FL is making changes.... FINALLY....

[gretch6364]

I've been wondering about this. So what is the big difference? Is there something inherently more dangerous about the kinds of meat people are getting at these Chinese markets than any other kind of wild game?

I think part of it is they mingle multiple species together, they sit out raw in a big open air market filled with people, etc. I am not a scientist, but eating certain animals like bats and rodents, have been known to spread diseases. U.S. hunters don't typically eat rodents, except squirrels, and typically only ones from the country. I would never eat a squirrel that lived in the city and ate peoples garbage. In the woods, they are eating nuts, etc. Broadly, US hunters also don't typically eat animals that eat meat. Except maybe mountain lions. I guess some hillbillies might eat possum? Eating crow is a saying for a reason...would taste like shit I am sure.

Anyhow, if I go out and shoot an elk, it is butchered and hung as soon as possible, then frozen/processed in a clean facility, then fully cooked before eating. You don't walk down to the farmers market and grab an elk quarter laying right next to pork, deer and marmot.

[Rideski]

I've been wondering about this. So what is the big difference? Is there something inherently more dangerous about the kinds of meat people are getting at these Chinese markets than any other kind of wild game?