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  1. #7326
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    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  2. #7327
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiballs View Post
    That people die because they have to go to work, or they will eventually starve. If the economy is destroyed, there won't be hospitals as we know them now. It is very likely that a lot of people will die, at some point in the future, because of the potential hysterical reaction. There is such a think as to much of a good thing.
    OK, that makes sense. The thing is--this country produces many times more goods and services than we need to survive. Places that are shut down are still producing and selling food, most (not enough) people have shelter, the utilities are working. Truck drivers need to work. Factories still need to make spare parts Housing needs to be built for the people on the streets. But we can survive without bars and restaurants and clothing stores and yoga studios and gyms and travel and on and on--if we can look after the people who were working there. (There is a big demand now for people to distribute groceries--the grocery store has to be the place where most people will catch the bug.) If we can redistribute wealth so that everybody has access to those things we can survive with a much smaller economy in the short and medium term. Right now we are looking at incurring enormous debt. I suspect that lockdown will cost so much that even Republicans will be forced to vote for big tax increases on the wealthy and a wealth tax--possibly taxes as high as in the 50's (92% in 51-52, a very prosperous time in America).

  3. #7328
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier View Post
    We don't all work for googlezon or the government. Yes, many small businesses are truly that fragile, especially businesses with slim margins and big capital expenses like restaurants.

    Walmart, tech companies, wall street, etc will be just fine after all this.

    Main Street is going to suffer.
    Yes, I understand. The $4T being proposed is for big business, as I mentioned.

  4. #7329
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiballs View Post
    Spread the hysteria, no one should work. How many people die in car crashes going to work? How many people die at work? How many cops get killed on the job? How many construction workers get killed or maimed at work?
    By the current matrix, no one should ever leave their house again.
    Hysteria is here to stay.
    Ugh. Another one.

  5. #7330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Name Redacted View Post
    If I had a dollar for every article in the popular press about a promising treatment for something I could restore my 401K. IME "promising" means "won't work."

  6. #7331
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  7. #7332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    Yes. I am surprised.
    Dude, c'mon. Start here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ress_by_wealth and she's up there. And those totals, I'm fairly sure, don't count in spousal net worth. We have very rich people writing our laws. Dont you think that they consider, just a little, their situation and then their donor's situation before it comes down to you and me? And, it's not as though they actually made all that money in the private sector, you know, like, us. Nope, years of "public service" somehow makes you wealthy. Who knew.

    500 million dollars.

    A 12 million dollar summer home on Martha's Vineyard.

  8. #7333
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    If I had a dollar for every article in the popular press about a promising treatment for something I could restore my 401K. IME "promising" means "won't work."
    Was just going to say the same thing. Frankly, Remdesivir's been discounted already.

  9. #7334
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    wow. i didn't know it was possible for anyone to possess such a high combination of stupidity and crass at the same time. gfy

    loyal cumgobbler = you
    The only hot meal for 30M school age kids is at school.

    Child abuse cases are way way up https://www.unicef.org/press-release...iolence-amidst

    But hey keep throwing insults so tired old Boomers can keep fucking this nation.

  10. #7335
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    The bottom line is—like it or not—we are all in this together.


    Because even if you attempted to segregate the elderly and those with underlying conditions from the young and healthy and allow the latter to go about their lives that would cause the virus to spread faster. As a result the health care system still gets overwhelmed and more people, not just elderly & underlying conditions people, die.

    Here's why, if some substantial percentage of the healthy population reports to work so that something like 20% of the population is infected that's still over 60 million people. Even if the death rate is at the low end for young and healthy that's still hundreds of thousands of deaths (60,000,000 *.004 = 240,000)

    The second problem is because you've allowed the virus to spread it becomes functionally impossible to segregate the elderly and underlying condition population meaning the scenario above becomes, who knows, maybe an order of magnitude worse (2,400,000).



    Even if you were able to implement your policy, is there any realist scenario where you wouldn't be forced to reverse course as the death toll rises? No. So now you've created a situation where you're forced to take even more drastic measures, do more harm to the economy, after you've allowed for more deaths, than otherwise necessary had you acted earlier.

    Yesterday is better than today, which is better than tomorrow.

  11. #7336
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    My friend's GF lives in Eagle Vail. He can work remotely and she can't so he's driving down there from Montana. I mean I can't blame him. Love is strong. He's basically signing up to get sick. I guess she works for the county and still physically has to go into work.

  12. #7337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    Ok, let's say 2-3 months. Point stands. $4T handout? That's not for infrastructure...just straight up cash to bug businesses.
    Longer than 2-3 months. Even if the deaths are contained and we're on the immunity downslope, would you go to an airport and fly or go to a baseball game or a mall?

  13. #7338
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    Resume of data scientists putting this project together. Data scraped from fed and state CDCs. Projections from WHO, JHSU

    Projections are timelines for when hospital systems are overwhelmed from POV of beds + human resources and equipment.

    You can safely ignore the red graph for."No Action Taken" as I doubt no jurisdiction is that cavalier. However see other visualizations re partial and total mitigation /suppresion
    Eg https://covidactnow.org/state/WA

  14. #7339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    just straight up cash to bug businesses.
    That's a lot of ant farms...

  15. #7340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    My friend's GF lives in Eagle Vail. He can work remotely and she can't so he's driving down there from Montana. I mean I can't blame him. Love is strong. He's basically signing up to get sick. I guess she works for the county and still physically has to go into work.
    Nah, they're both horny.

  16. #7341
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  17. #7342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    Or his moral compass is bang on.

    How many children should starve, or be severely abused to keep a bunch of 80 y/o alive a few more months/years.

    What we're seeing from the death statistics is that people who are only alive because of the Health care system are now taxing that same system and pushing death onto the next generation(s).
    Shakes head.

    Y’all are in more hysteria about sheltering in place than there is hysteria about the virus. It is not just the old and sick dying. That is just the majority. If we do nothing, it will overwhelm the first responders and health care professionals. They too will get sick. Not all of them will die, but who the hell is going to respond to your 10 car automobile pile up when the fire fighters, cops and doctors are all in bed with a fever.

    Sorry that you just don’t get it, but kindly duck off. Let the government feed those hungry children and do what it is supposed to do. The only reason to ignore this thing is so the rich can keep their investments doing well.

    Shakes head. Debased trying to make us believe you care about poor children.

  18. #7343
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Friend from Amsterdam sent me this chart - looks like The Netherlands’ rate of infection curve is similar to Italy’s; it’s just 2 weeks behind...

  19. #7344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    The only hot meal for 30M school age kids is at school.

    Child abuse cases are way way up https://www.unicef.org/press-release...iolence-amidst

    But hey keep throwing insults so tired old Boomers can keep fucking this nation.
    Every single school in my county still has free lunch. We are all closed. Pick up at the lot.

    I know a little about this because it’s my job. I run the program for my one school district.

    But you go ahead and keep making up shit you don’t know about. That is what you do best.

  20. #7345
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    In actuarial tables there's a calculus for health and human life. It's actually quite fascinating in a mathematical geek kind of way. Embedded in those calculations is an implicit assumption as to very subjective determination of what a human life is worth. Some say a lot. Some say not much.

    I wonder on what side of the spectrum some posters would come down when making that choice?

    About $9 from a chemical/mineral perspective or somewhere between 5 and 50 million based on the US' current reaction (Based on a very conservative 10T$ cost and the low and high 200k-2M predicted deaths).

    The compounding factors are the emotional and financial stresses, increased risk to disease and the corresponding commitment to poor health the boomers are levying on the next generations.

    Meanwhile, offering a morphine drip instead of a ventilator offers a myriad of societal benefits.

  21. #7346
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    Chinese Rat Flu

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post

    A 12 million dollar summer home on Martha's Vineyard.
    Drab. That won’t even get you enough acreage to run a ‘’farm’’ on the property that qualifies it for huge property tax exemption.
    Last edited by Self Jupiter; 03-22-2020 at 12:18 PM.

  22. #7347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Maybe during the coming violent chaos and civil discord, the authorities will be distracted, and we can form a posse to go down to Florida and just separate them from the rest of us somehow. A nice DMZ, about a hundred miles wide at the border, to start.

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  23. #7348
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    That's a lot of ant farms...
    Ha!

  24. #7349
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Resume of data scientists putting this project together. Data scraped from fed and state CDCs. Projections from WHO, JHSU

    Projections are timelines for when hospital systems are overwhelmed from POV of beds + human resources and equipment.

    You can safely ignore the red graph for."No Action Taken" as I doubt no jurisdiction is that cavalier. However see other visualizations re partial and total mitigation /suppresion
    Eg https://covidactnow.org/state/WA
    Thanks Lee good stuff.

  25. #7350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    But hey keep throwing insults so tired old Boomers can keep fucking this nation.
    Sure. First I'll touch on the 'You're stupid part.'
    It's not just old people dumbass. 20% of deaths will be under 64. 40% of hospitalizations are under 20-54
    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927196

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...cid=mm6912e2_w

    Or there's this, from 11 days ago in Italy. it has doubled twice since then, and more. https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/...-milan-health/
    The first identifies herself as Martina, but I believe she is Martina Crivellari, an intensive care cardiac anaesthesiologist at the San Raffaele Hospital in Milan.

    She said: "There are a lot of young people in our Intensive Care Units (ICUs) - our youngest is a 38-year-old who had had no comorbidities (underlying health problems).

    "A lot of patients need help with breathing but there are not enough ventilators.

    "They've told us that starting from now we'll have to choose who to intubate - priority will go to the young or those without comorbidities.

    "At Niguarda, the other big hospital in Milan, they are not intubating anyone over 60, which is really, really young."
    she added
    She added: "This virus is so infectious that the only way to avoid a 'massacre' is to have the least number possible getting infected over the longest possible timescale.

    "Right now, if we get 10,000 people in Italy in need of ventilators - when we only have 3,000 in the country - 7,000 people will die.

    "Rome right now is like where Milan was 10 days ago. In 10 days there has been an incredible escalation.

    "Lombardy, which has the best healthcare in the country, is collapsing, so I don’t dare to think what would happen in less efficient regions.

    "We've had no critical cases among children but with children, viruses are much less aggressive - think chickenpox or measles.

    "But the very young are crazy carriers.

    "A child with no symptoms will go to visit its grandparents, and basically kill them. So it’s essential to avoid contact between them".
    Another Doctor from Niguarda hospital added
    He added: "You have no idea how many young people are here, I mean even 20-year-olds with no underlying conditions, in need of assisted breathing because of horrible pneumonia.

    "There aren’t the resources to screen doctors for Covid-19 anymore - they’re just telling them 'stay home if you have symptoms, otherwise come to work'."

    He continued: "Non-specialised medical graduates are being brought in.

    "At Milan’s Policlinico hospital they are dealing with 50 new pneumonia cases every day".
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

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