Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

**Thurgood Jenkins** · 03-21-2020, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier

Guessing a very high debt to income ratio and no savings... like most of America.

That's my whole street.

**riser4** · 03-21-2020, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by glademaster

Hang on, let me get my tiniest violin ready so I can play a tune for Thursgood's neighbor.

Dick. While being that heavily leveraged sucks, there's going to be a lot of it going around. We just all need to get through this. The readjustment will be brutal, however I have sympathy for everyone going through this. Everyone. Even you.

**Thurgood Jenkins** · 03-21-2020, 09:46 AM

I'm watching the financial apocalypse with a front row seat.

Don't old people and the sick die all the time?

Are we supposed to completely stop our economy? Hobbling it for months or years because of a virulent strain of the flu is kind of extreme. I've seen estimates that 30%-50% of small businesses may not reopen after all this shakes out.

I'm not trying to be a rotten bastard. But following the disastrous wars in the Middle East where we send thousands of troops to be killed/maimed for nothing, and NOW we're concerned about life. I don't buy it. Sorry guys.

**Benny Profane** · 03-21-2020, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by glademaster

Hang on, let me get my tiniest violin ready so I can play a tune for Thursgood's neighbor.

You better get a bigger fiddle. Hell, an orchestra. This is going to be a historic event that may make 08 look like a blip. There's a lot of BMW drivers and skiers and 4000 sq ft MacMansion dwellers living paycheck to paycheck.

**rideit** · 03-21-2020, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Ripzalot

Well to be fair, it was the single biggest one day increase in the stock market in history based solely on trump's leadership. Even Ilhan Omar has now praised Trump's response.

Maybe you are just wrong in your TDS outrage?

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Haha, your cheerleading is SO cute!
Have you woken to the fact that ‘his’ stock market was a house of cards to begin with?
But I sincerely applaud your optimism.

**Bunion 2020** · 03-21-2020, 09:51 AM

I'm not trying to be a rotten bastard. But following the disastrous wars in the Middle East where we send thousands of troops to be killed/maimed for nothing, and NOW we're concerned about life. I don't buy it. Sorry guys.

If you have a better idea than letting loose a dragon and see how many it immolates, I am all ears.

**shroom** · 03-21-2020, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by huckbucket

Thank you. If there's one thing that's abundantly clear from the impact of this virus it's that our economy is fucking fragile. Notwithstanding that, I can't imagine the exposure to go to zero in a month. WTF?

the economy is fragile yeah, but the structure we choose to put in place (monetary policy, debt issuance, social programs, educational funding, etc etc) lack any sort of foresight or risk management. if you’ve ever managed anything large, this is apparent. it’s all defined process, we just don’t care what the forecast or possible outcomes are.

**rideit** · 03-21-2020, 10:00 AM

So, are the prices of trick Sprinter vans going to go down, due to the fact that for many they are superfluous toys, or is the price going to go up, due to the fact that people might need to move into them?
Curious market for toys.

**Cono Este** · 03-21-2020, 10:01 AM

LinkedIn is depressing. Seeing posts of people with good jobs being laid off. Not just servers etc.

Scary shot for a lot of people.

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**Ted Striker** · 03-21-2020, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by rideit

So, are the prices of trick Sprinter vans going to go down, due to the fact that for many they are superfluous toys, or is the price going to go up, due to the fact that people might need to move into them?
Curious market for toys.

I was going to make a bmw quip, but that one is better.

**4matic** · 03-21-2020, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Thurgood Jenkins

I'm watching the financial apocalypse with a front row seat.

Don't old people and the sick die all the time?

Are we supposed to completely stop our economy? Hobbling it for months or years because of a virulent strain of the flu is kind of extreme. I've seen estimates that 30%-50% of small businesses may not reopen after all this shakes out.

I'm not trying to be a rotten bastard. But following the disastrous wars in the Middle East where we send thousands of troops to be killed/maimed for nothing, and NOW we're concerned about life. I don't buy it. Sorry guys.

The long term implications of an uncontrolled no vaccine virus are far worse. If this lives through the summer and spreads next winter turn the lights out board your windows. It’s over. Until there is a vaccine be afraid and heed the warning.

**Bunion 2020** · 03-21-2020, 10:04 AM

Every since 2007/08 I have lived frugally.

That was a clear lesson and most people didn't learn from it.

**Thurgood Jenkins** · 03-21-2020, 10:07 AM

^^^The stock market has always been a house of cards. That's the deal, always has been.

If the Fed Chair farts, the stock market wobbles. If there are tornados in KS, the market wobbles. If a foreign leader get reelected or booted out, the market wobbles. It wobbles to the point where I don't mess with it.

It wan't "trumps" stock market, it's just that the markets showed confidence in the stability under the current (albeit lousy) administration.

**Ted Striker** · 03-21-2020, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Thurgood Jenkins

it's robbing wealth from my entire street. People are hurting already.

When do the margin calls come in? My neighbor makes pretty good bread. Now's he's broke. With a mortgage and yard full of financed toys.

Poor people will always be poor. Now rich people are going to be poor. The Bernie Crowd wants wealth distribution. This is wealth evaporation.

Your neighbors were never really wealthy. Wealth isn't financed.

**Art Shirk** · 03-21-2020, 10:08 AM

Guy I work with makes a great base salary and has a variable comp package that affords him a bunch more dough. He lives in an area of the country with very low cost of living. So what does he do? He still buys the biggest joint he can with the mortgage payment and all the toys you can dream up based on his total income, not base. I recall him have 1 bad sales month awhile back and complaining about how he was going to pay his bills. As if his plan was to never hit a blip, and even if he didn’t, he wasn’t saving anything substantial. He’s in for a world of hurt.

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**MagnificentUnicorn** · 03-21-2020, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by old goat

The California dental association has asked the state to give guidelines for the treatment of dental patients during the pandemic. They have recommended treating only urgent and emergent cases for 2 weeks. This paragraph caught my eye:
"In the meantime, without clear guidance, CDA strongly recommends dentists only see urgent and emergency care patients if they have the supplies and PPE to do so. If a practice does not have the supplies or PPE, CDA recommends all emergency patients be referred to a hospital emergency department. As the state develops clear guidance, we will revise these recommendations accordingly. "

What are they going to do in an ER for a patient with an abscessed tooth or other dental emergency? There aren't the equipment or the personnel to treat it. Talk about passing the buck. I can see the ER telling the person to go back to their dentist.

We treat people all the time for abscessed teeth in the OR if it’s an emergency and dental offices are closed. Oral surgeons are on call and we have all the necessary equipment.

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**Shorty_J** · 03-21-2020, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Art Shirk

Guy I work with makes a great base salary and has a variable comp package that affords him a bunch more dough. He lives in an area of the country with very low cost of living. So what does he do? He still buys the biggest joint he can with the mortgage payment and all the toys you can dream up based on his total income, not base. I recall him have 1 bad sales month awhile back and complaining about how he was going to pay his bills. As if his plan was to never hit a blip, and even if he didn’t, he wasn’t saving anything substantial. He’s in for a world of hurt.

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You're not wrong, but if everyone saved the way they should the economy would probably crumble. They depend on people spending every dollar available to "grow".

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**4matic** · 03-21-2020, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

We treat people all the time for abscessed teeth in the OR if it’s an emergency and dental offices are closed. Oral surgeons are on call and we have all the necessary equipment.

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Thanks. I got email with instructions for dental emergency. It is available

**glademaster** · 03-21-2020, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Shorty_J

You're not wrong, but if everyone saved the way they should the economy would probably crumble. They depend on people spending every dollar available to "grow".

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"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of cancer."

**rideit** · 03-21-2020, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Thurgood Jenkins

^^^The stock market has always been a house of cards. That's the deal, always has been.

If the Fed Chair farts, the stock market wobbles. If there are tornados in KS, the market wobbles. If a foreign leader get reelected or booted out, the market wobbles. It wobbles to the point where I don't mess with it.

It wan't "trumps" stock market, it's just that the markets showed confidence in the stability under the current (albeit lousy) administration.

Hence the ‘his’ being in quotes.

**Thurgood Jenkins** · 03-21-2020, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Art Shirk

Guy I work with makes a great base salary and has a variable comp package that affords him a bunch more dough. He lives in an area of the country with very low cost of living. So what does he do? He still buys the biggest joint he can with the mortgage payment and all the toys you can dream up based on his total income, not base. I recall him have 1 bad sales month awhile back and complaining about how he was going to pay his bills. As if his plan was to never hit a blip, and even if he didn’t, he wasn’t saving anything substantial. He’s in for a world of hurt.

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He lives on my street!

**4matic** · 03-21-2020, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Shorty_J

You're not wrong, but if everyone saved the way they should the economy would probably crumble. They depend on people spending every dollar available to "grow".

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It wouldn’t crumble. It would be sustainable. Look at Japan. Like Warren Buffett has said. For a country in permanent recession they are doing pretty well.

**Shorty_J** · 03-21-2020, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by glademaster

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of cancer."

100% agree

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**LeeLau** · 03-21-2020, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Thurgood Jenkins

Are we supposed to completely stop our economy? Hobbling it for months or years because of a virulent strain of the flu is kind of extreme. I've seen estimates that 30%-50% of small businesses may not reopen after all this shakes out.

I'm not trying to be a rotten bastard. But following the disastrous wars in the Middle East where we send thousands of troops to be killed/maimed for nothing, and NOW we're concerned about life. I don't buy it. Sorry guys.

I feel that no matter what the US ( and Canada) does the economic disaster is already baked in. Take the COVID mitigation/suppression medicine now - or - delay and prevaricate and hope for voluntary community cooperation.

The former course was successful in Singapore, Taiwan and South Korea and contributed to the health care system not being overwhelmed. The latter was the course pursued by Italy until a little more than a week ago