Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[MakersTeleMark]

I also have been hearing about younger people getting Covid , should we consider it could be mutating or changing or ... ?

yup, My parents are both gone so if we just leave the old to die ... thats just me !

You are confusing getting with dying.

[bennymac]

[powpig]

wouldn’t get too hung up on the assumption that its only old people gonna die from this. early days yet but US numbers have younger people making up a surprising number of covid hospitalizations, anywhere from 20-50%, reading/listening to experts shows no concrete theories as to why the rate is so much worse than China

The rate SEEMS much worse than China because the CCP's reported stats are complete BS!

[skiballs]

^like back country skiing and dying in an avalanche.

[Core Shot]

^like back country skiing and dying in an avalanche.

But a lot less fun

[TG]

The rate SEEMS much worse than China because the CCP's reported stats are complete BS!

sure, but for the last couple months the accepted wisdom, mantra and justification for things like the spring break packed together hedonism has been that “its only gonna kill the olds” and the youngs can shake it off like a bad cold. If that turns out wrong, lotta folks in for a rude surprise.

[iceman]

Could it be that the Chinese have **some sort of immunity** to regular Corona virus from eating fucking everything?? Or even spending time in wet markets??

I understand it’s a novel virus, just spit ballin’

um

[old goat]

I get that some ideas have merit to discuss at a population level but fall apart when on the ground level

But to anyone who says “don’t old or sick people die all the time?” like we should just let this run it’s course through the chronically ill and people over 60 (with huge overlap between these two groups) - yeah please go to your nearest ER and volunteer to be the death panel that tells the family members that 65 year old Doreen who quit smoking at 50 but is overweight - well she’s gonna die today because we don’t want the economy to suffer too much.

I’d suggest getting a few lawyers on retainer for when the lawsuits start flooding in. And no, the government is not going to be there to back you or the health care workers up for your decision - that’s on you.

This is a bed we’ve made as a society. We can talk tough on a population scale level. But if Doreen is your Mom the discussion takes a very different turn 100% of the time.

One of the things I did was put vascular access shunts in people with kidney failure. Families would have me do it on people who were 80+, demented to the point of non verbal and not recognizing family. (I did them at the request of the kidney docs; when a case was up to me I wouldn't do it if medically inappropriate.) I had one kidney doc who referred me a lot of patients at death's door; a surprising number died of other problems in the two weeks it took me to get them on the OR schedule.

The issue isn't should we not worry about coronavirus and just let old people die. It's how do we allocate limited resources in the face of an overwhelming epidemic.
When people are sleeping on the streets and dying with needles in their arms how much should society spend to let people live longer. Nobody I know has the answer but if we don't ask the question there never will be an answer.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Aaron is from Wenatchee, which means that no matter what the topic is, he is the world's foremost authority on it, and all other perspectives are invalid.

Don’t be a cunt. I know it’s probably not possible, but try.


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[iceman]

TG I think we're gonna find that social structure is the reason for that. Lots of olds locked away. Yeah it's baad if the virus gets into that environment but that's becoming harder for it to do with more awareness. Old Folks Homes are locked the fuck down now.

[Rideski]

[old goat]

Could it be that the Chinese have **some sort of immunity** to regular Corona virus from eating fucking everything?? Or even spending time in wet markets??

I understand it’s a novel virus, just spit ballin’

most people for most of human history have eaten fucking everything. It's only recent western societies that have been able to afford to be such picky eaters.

As far as the idea that only old people die, that's fake news spread by boomers to get rid of the millenials because we're sick of "OK, boomer".

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Spoke with my nephew in Paris this morning. Official word there is they are expecting their illness / death rates to mimic Italy's and not to peak for another 3 or 4 weeks. He says if you are over 80 they will not treat you. They have not enough test kits nor medical equipment. So much for thinking our health system is so much worse then socialized systems.

France doesn’t have “socialized” healthcare. Their system is more privatized than ours.


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[bennymac]

One of the things I did was put vascular access shunts in people with kidney failure. Families would have me do it on people who were 80+, demented to the point of non verbal and not recognizing family. (I did them at the request of the kidney docs; when a case was up to me I wouldn't do it if medically inappropriate.) I had one kidney doc who referred me a lot of patients at death's door; a surprising number died of other problems in the two weeks it took me to get them on the OR schedule.

The issue isn't should we not worry about coronavirus and just let old people die. It's how do we allocate limited resources in the face of an overwhelming epidemic.
When people are sleeping on the streets and dying with needles in their arms how much should society spend to let people live longer. Nobody I know has the answer but if we don't ask the question there never will be an answer.

Yes thanks for your input on your experience. Agree that it is worthwhile to have that discussion at a society level - we need to try and answer those extremely tough questions. But once we have the answers we’ll need some sort of protection for those people tasked with enforcing those decisions in emergency situations - because a lot of the people who said “no let them die it’s not worth it” will be calling their lawyers when it’s their loved ones in jeopardy.

[Core Shot]

Death Panels

It’s the boogeyman’s answer

Or the elephant in the room

[SirVicSmasher]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...-store-produce
Wtf is wrong with kids today?

Sent from my I3123 using Tapatalk
Edit: talk about a viral trend

[Mr. Mike]

wouldn’t get too hung up on the assumption that its only old people gonna die from this. early days yet but US numbers have younger people making up a surprising number of covid hospitalizations, anywhere from 20-50%, reading/listening to experts shows no concrete theories as to why the rate is so much worse than China

more obesity and related chronic health conditions in younger age groups in the US vs. most other parts of the world?

[mdblows]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...-store-produce
Wtf is wrong with kids today?

Sent from my I3123 using Tapatalk
Edit: talk about a viral trend

Some teenagers are shitty, who knew?

[CantDog]

I get that some ideas have merit to discuss at a population level but fall apart when on the ground level

But to anyone who says “don’t old or sick people die all the time?” like we should just let this run it’s course through the chronically ill and people over 60 (with huge overlap between these two groups) - yeah please go to your nearest ER and volunteer to be the death panel that tells the family members that 65 year old Doreen who quit smoking at 50 but is overweight - well she’s gonna die today because we don’t want the economy to suffer too much.

I’d suggest getting a few lawyers on retainer for when the lawsuits start flooding in. And no, the government is not going to be there to back you or the health care workers up for your decision - that’s on you.

This is a bed we’ve made as a society. We can talk tough on a population scale level. But if Doreen is your Mom the discussion takes a very different turn 100% of the time.

It’s an interesting discussion, and one that hospitals and states have been preparing for long before this. Our medical structure strongly favors a patient centered autonomy model, but in a national health emergency the focus appropriately shifts to public health. Clinicians are then empowered to make different decisions regarding offering care.

The hard part is yes, lawsuits will still likely follow, and these conversations doesn’t feel any less hard for clinicians. There is already a feeling of anticipatory dread about making these decisions among my colleagues.

[Benny Profane]

But a lot less fun

I dont know. Sorta the same thing. Suffocation. Except they keep you warm in the ICU.

[Benny Profane]

TG I think we're gonna find that social structure is the reason for that. Lots of olds locked away. Yeah it's baad if the virus gets into that environment but that's becoming harder for it to do with more awareness. Old Folks Homes are locked the fuck down now.

You betcha! [Pump action, clunk, clunk] Get the fuck off my lawn.

[XXX-er]

most people for most of human history have eaten fucking everything. It's only recent western societies that have been able to afford to be such picky eaters.

As far as the idea that only old people die, that's fake news spread by boomers to get rid of the millenials because we're sick of "OK, boomer".

In China they they nothing to eat back in 1970 people were starving and thats when they started farming & eating wild animals

[seano732]

Fire/ EMS Update #5 (SW Edition)

57 Confirmed in NM. Don't have total tested in front of me, and it is low, but increasing.
I appreciate all of you (Adolf, Splat) who reached out re PPE. Now we are looking at an acute shortage of goggles. A local distillery cranked out and delivered nearly 200 gallons of hand sanitizer earlier this week.....Then shut their doors and furloughed all their employees. Fuck.
None of our members has tested positive. Yet. Two local hotels reached out and offered to house any of our members who need to isolate, which is awesome, and I think should happen nationwide. Not just for first responders, but for anyone with a positive COVID-19 test. I seem to remember reading that CA and WA are doing this, but not sure.
The Fire Chief and I hit some stations on Friday. Our people are incredible. Their number one concern is bringing this shit home to their families.
We are now screening all of our members prior to them entering a fire station or support facility. Temperature, 3-4 basic health questions. This was based on talking with some chiefs in King County and the PNW, who told us the wished they had done this sooner rather than later.
We were told to expect a shelter in place order, like 14 other states have done, by next week. I'm all for it, based on the number of cars I still see on the road here in the Q. Stay the fuck home, people.
I was able to get out in the yard today and just kind of zone out, which was nice.
We will see what tomorrow brings. All of you mags stay safe. Paging Diamond Joe to the white courtesy phone for an EC Update....

[Benny Profane]

more obesity and related chronic health conditions in younger age groups in the US vs. most other parts of the world?

Yeah, we're about to see a realz (sorry, Ice) world experience of watching a Darwinian virus cull the herd of the physically unfit, but, at this point, the younger you are a slug, the better. We'll see in July.
Which makes it very different from 2018. That was a killer of fit people in their prime.

[TG]

eye opening article

https://www.propublica.org/article/a...young-patients

“I have patients in their early 40s and, yeah, I was kind of shocked. I’m seeing people who look relatively healthy with a minimal health history, and they are completely wiped out, like they’ve been hit by a truck. This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people. Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all.”