Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[iceman]

That's why mask wearing needs to be mandated as soon as possible.

[glademaster]

That's why mask wearing needs to be mandated as soon as possible.

I agree completely, but that will impede facial recognition tech used for surveillance, and we can't have that.

[muted]

What's wrong with the Irish Spring sitting there?

Luck of the Irish will keep the virus away!

[rideit]

Soap up with Jameson’s?
Expensive, but effective.
Bushmill’s in a pinch.

[powdork]

Temporary layoffs are happening here which allows for unemployment checks. Our Gov announced funding for this specifically.

It misses a LOT of people. For instance, I work for a company over 500 people. The majority of the employees are part time and do not qualify for benefits. I will get no sick leave, and have to rely on unemployment which is about 20% of what I make.

[Deebased]

That *everyone* was talking about months ago. Apart from the conspiratorial nonsense, Spats has made valid points but those points were already discussed months ago. There's nothing wrong with discussing those things again but Spats seems to think he's presenting this stuff to the uninformed masses. He's not.

The most important point is it's social distancing and testing and the earlier you start the better.

How so?

The Ace2 studies were released the third and fourth weeks of Feb. One inconclusive, one suggestive and one negative.

The CDC data is published in real time.

[MultiVerse]

We make memes of Asian people taking extraordinary measures. But a buff is better than nothing. Look no further than N95 masks if you want proof: an N95 mask stops only 95% of particles larger than 0.3 microns. Best estimate I've seen (please improve it!) puts this virus at .112 microns. So even if worn perfectly an N95 mask isn't stopping all the virus. And yet it helps. Let's not make perfect the enemy of good.

From what I've read droplet size varies along a spectrum. So maybe as small as .112 microns but flu, for example, can spread via tiny particles as well as relatively large particles.

I agree let's not make perfect the enemy of good. One caveat is with air pollution particles, which might not apply with virus particles, is the best masks like the 3M Aura stop 99% while the worst N95 masks are only 70-80% effective. Some of the more stylish masks marketed for athletes like the colorful ones you see cyclists wearing are much less effective when it comes to stopping small particles.

So a buff or a handkerchief stops something like 30% of particles, a cycling mask maybe 60-80%, and a fitted top tier N95 99%.

[MultiVerse]

How so?

The Ace2 studies were released the third and fourth weeks of Feb. One inconclusive, one suggestive and one negative.

The CDC data is published in real time.

You'll have to be more specific. The post I responded to was about social distancing. We've been talking about that long before Spats arrived.

If you're talking about testing then rather than focusing elusively on the U.S. why not compare and contrast what we're doing with what other countries are doing?

How South Korea Scaled Coronavirus Testing While the U.S. Fell Dangerously Behind:
https://www.propublica.org/article/h...erously-behind

[The SnowShow]

So on a somewhat different topic, I think we are thinking about masks wrong. N95 masks might prevent you from catching the virus. But they are somewhat complicated to produce and use, and it will be a long damn time before they are widely available.

There is some indication that surgical masks can offer some moderate protection against infection but to me that isn't the important thing about them..

Surgical masks are designed and used to keep medical workers from getting vulnerable patients sick. They are largely effective (or so I understand) at this. They aren't to keep the medical workers safe, they're used to keep the patients safe. In other words, they aren't designed for or good at keeping stuff out, but they are pretty good at keeping stuff in. So if everybody was wearing them, those who already have the virus would not be able to infect others as easily. It would keep the virus that they carry out of the air and off of surfaces to a higher degree than not wearing masks would.

Surgical masks are simple, cheap, and easy to produce. I bet we could even make a lot of them in this country quite quickly. If the government mandated wearing them in public I am pretty convinced that the spread of the virus would be significantly slowed. I would even bet that cheap dust masks or even simple gauze masks would help prevent or at least slow the spread of the virus and would be a significant benefit. Anything that keeps the virus away from others would be benefit to society as a whole.

From a public health standpoint I think we should focus on production and distribution of simple masks, and require their use as soon as possible, in order to help flatten the curve. It's not gonna solve things but it could slow it down and that's what we need now.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Well put.

[Benny Profane]

https://coloradosun.com/2020/03/17/c...t-coronavirus/

[huckbucket]

If anyone has good sources for test accuracy I'd be very interested.

No one has those numbers yet, but no inaccuracy is NOT unique to the CDC test.

[grskier]

https://coloradosun.com/2020/03/17/c...t-coronavirus/

Yeah, it's no joke. I work in local government... this is going to have a lasting effect on us as well.

[Toadman]

I was in Norway last summer and was blown away by the infrastructure when you consider it's a nation of five million people. We drove through a tunnel near the Hardangerfjord that had a roundabout in it, for fuck's sake!

Haven't been to Norway, but have been in just about all the rest of Europe, and China too. Their infrastructure makes USA infrastructure look like 1970's era technology. And I could go for some roundabout tunnels here in Bend. That would be pretty cool.

[klauss]

A lot of theories floating around on masks of various constructions and efficacy.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ng-coronavirus

Surgical masks are just a physical barrier that will protect you against "a visible splash or spray of fluid or large droplets," explains Raina MacIntyre, an infectious disease researcher and professor of global biosecurity at the University of New South Wales in Sydney who has studied the efficacy of face masks. These masks fit loosely on the face around the edges, so they don't completely keep out germs, and small airborne particles can still get through.

Clarence Tam, a public health researcher at the National University of Singapore, notes that because wearing masks can be uncomfortable, "the discomfort might make you actually touch your face more." This could contaminate your fingers with any germs that might have attached themselves to the outside of the mask.

MacIntyre notes that cloth masks — which people wash and reuse — are also common in Asian countries. She says there's no evidence to show they have any benefit, and her research suggests they "may actually be harmful," because infrequent washing and moisture retention can make cloth masks a breeding ground for pathogens.

[huckbucket]

So on a somewhat different topic, I think we are thinking about masks wrong. N95 masks might prevent you from catching the virus. But they are somewhat complicated to produce and use, and it will be a long damn time before they are widely available.

There is some indication that surgical masks can offer some moderate protection against infection but to me that isn't the important thing about them..

Surgical masks are designed and used to keep medical workers from getting vulnerable patients sick. They are largely effective (or so I understand) at this. They aren't to keep the medical workers safe, they're used to keep the patients safe. In other words, they aren't designed for or good at keeping stuff out, but they are pretty good at keeping stuff in. So if everybody was wearing them, those who already have the virus would not be able to infect others as easily. It would keep the virus that they carry out of the air and off of surfaces to a higher degree than not wearing masks would.

Surgical masks are simple, cheap, and easy to produce. I bet we could even make a lot of them in this country quite quickly. If the government mandated wearing them in public I am pretty convinced that the spread of the virus would be significantly slowed. I would even bet that cheap dust masks or even simple gauze masks would help prevent or at least slow the spread of the virus and would be a significant benefit. Anything that keeps the virus away from others would be benefit to society as a whole.

From a public health standpoint I think we should focus on production and distribution of simple masks, and require their use as soon as possible, in order to help flatten the curve. It's not gonna solve things but it could slow it down and that's what we need now.

It's safe to assume that a basic hypothesis like the one you're making has already been studied ad nauseam (at the very least by the face mask industry). The answer exists in the literature somewhere out there, so let's all at least act like this isn't a new thought and that there's intrinsically correct truth to your idea.

[RootSkier]

Soap up with Jameson’s?
Expensive, but effective.
Bushmill’s in a pinch.

Bushmills is only for washing your ass.

[AK47bp]

Why Telling People They Don’t Need Masks Backfired

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/o...gtype=Homepage

NYT has removed their paywall so everyone can get virus info.

I never said people shouldn’t use masks, just they aren’t perfect and have downsides. “Double edged sword”

And when the people that need them can’t get them because some jagoff is just wearing a mask driving a car alone, its idiotic and short sighted.



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[muted]

Haven't been to Norway, but have been in just about all the rest of Europe, and China too. Their infrastructure makes USA infrastructure look like 1970's era technology. And I could go for some roundabout tunnels here in Bend. That would be pretty cool.

Massive 4-6? lane highways going underneath massive farms for miles in Switzerland was jaw dropping to see. The US would buy the farms and put the highway above ground.

[muted]

Bushmills is only for washing your ass.

Drink it first and it'll wash your ass on the way out.

[Benny Profane]

Yeah, it's no joke. I work in local government... this is going to have a lasting effect on us as well.

The people who are going to come out of this intact on the other side are the ones who don't need a paycheck for a living, aren't dependent on a business, and aren't all in on equities. In other words , the idle rich and retired people with conservative, balanced investments. The rest of Western society is fucked, and the scale of fucked depends on the timing. One or two months, not greatly fucked, but fucked, 8-12 months, stone cold fucked.

Either way, stuff is going to be really cheap soon.

[AK47bp]

The article is good but it's still focused on using masks to protect yourself whereas I think the greater immediate benefit is in protecting others.

The mask also stops or at least severely limits people touching their own nose and mouth.

I think that is a huge benefit.


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[4matic]

The mask also stops or at least severely limits people touching their own nose and mouth.

I think that is a huge benefit.


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Not if you are trying to adjust it to fit every few minutes.

[LeeLau]

Even more reason to temporarily close Canadian and other countries borders to the US. At least to the public and constrain to commercial traffic

"Just about 56% of Americans consider the coronavirus a "real threat," representing a drop of 10 percentage points from last month. At the same time, a growing number of Americans think the coronavirus is being "blown out of proportion."

Poll from NPR

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/17/81650...-a-real-threat

[up an down]

That *everyone* was talking about months ago. Apart from the conspiratorial nonsense, Spats has made valid points but those points were already discussed months ago. There's nothing wrong with discussing those things again but Spats seems to think he's presenting this stuff to the uninformed masses. He's not.

The most important point is it's social distancing and testing and the earlier you start the better.

+1

[rideit]

I still can’t believe México is 100% ‘open for business’.