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  1. #11776
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Uggh the mental health situation in my house just turned sour. My wife is so bummed about her dad being locked in and she can't even go see him because his apartment is interior so he can't come to a window and see us. He's 94 and fading and she is afraid she'll never get to hug him again. How do I keep her from losing it? Fuck...
    Sorry dude. Rough stuff. Maybe someone inside the complex can give a few minutes of facetime or zoom?

  2. #11777
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I was wearing a mask. If I learned anything in a 35 year surgical career it's that you don't want to cough, sneeze or vomit inside your mask.
    You can do all of those things in scuba regulator.

    Thatís why scuba is better than pandemic.

  3. #11778
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Fuck! CT just extended their stay at home and business closures to May 20th at least. My father in law is going to lose the last of what's left in his head, the near complete lack of socialization has accelerated his dementia to the point where it's nearly impossible to communicate with him anymore. Now he's going to be locked in for at least that much longer Fuck! The place he lives lost another 3 residents this week to the virus and there are 4 more employees that are out because they're sick. We're not even allowed to take him out... Fuck!
    Sorry dude. Fuck, 5/20. This sucks.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  4. #11779
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Uggh the mental health situation in my house just turned sour. My wife is so bummed about her dad being locked in and she can't even go see him because his apartment is interior so he can't come to a window and see us. He's 94 and fading and she is afraid she'll never get to hug him again. How do I keep her from losing it? Fuck...
    That's terrible. I'm so sorry she has to go through with that.

    My boyfriend's boss' wife is in the same situation.
    They just moved her 91 year old mother from nursing home to COVID hospital for terminal patients.
    She has pneumonia from coronavirus and her lungs are failing.
    I don't think she can ever see her mother again while she's still alive.

  5. #11780
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGnight View Post

    destroying the economy and instituting a police state.

    ]
    Funny that it happened with Republicans in the White House and senate

  6. #11781
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Fuck! CT just extended their stay at home and business closures to May 20th at least. My father in law is going to lose the last of what's left in his head, the near complete lack of socialization has accelerated his dementia to the point where it's nearly impossible to communicate with him anymore. Now he's going to be locked in for at least that much longer Fuck! The place he lives lost another 3 residents this week to the virus and there are 4 more employees that are out because they're sick. We're not even allowed to take him out... Fuck!
    Thatís tough man. Iím really sorry.

  7. #11782
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Uggh the mental health situation in my house just turned sour. My wife is so bummed about her dad being locked in and she can't even go see him because his apartment is interior so he can't come to a window and see us. He's 94 and fading and she is afraid she'll never get to hug him again. How do I keep her from losing it? Fuck...
    Quote Originally Posted by nutmegchoi View Post
    That's terrible. I'm so sorry she has to go through with that.

    My boyfriend's boss' wife is in the same situation.
    They just moved her 91 year old mother from nursing home to COVID hospital for terminal patients.
    She has pneumonia from coronavirus and her lungs are failing.
    I don't think she can ever see her mother again while she's still alive.
    Thatís awful. Everyone has to decide for themselves what to do. I donít know what Iíd do. Take the chance?

    Wow... I donít know...

  8. #11783
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    1,128

    Chinese Rat Flu

    Correct me if Iím wrong but this kind of data from the NYTimes/WH is completely misleading.

    ďThe White House coronavirus task force released a breakdown of testing data Thursday that gave a sense of how hard the virus is hitting different age groups, further confirming that older people are the most likely to contract it.

    Among people who were tested:

    11 percent of those under 25 were positive.

    17 percent of those between 25 and 45 were positive.

    21 percent of those between 45 and 65 were positive.

    22 percent of those between 65 and 55 were positive.

    24 percent of those over 85 were positive.Ē

    I know that in Wake County, NC, they are not even testing anyone unless they have all 3+ major symptoms, or over 65, or a 1st responder.
    So that data from the NYT/WH is pointless.
    This shit drives me crazy... the data of positive cases is useless. Hospitalized and deaths..has more value at this point. Am I wrong?

  9. #11784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideski View Post
    Sorry dude. Rough stuff. Maybe someone inside the complex can give a few minutes of facetime or zoom?
    Yeah we tried, he doesn't see well enough anymore and the phone screen wasn't big enough and he got annoyed. We are going to try to convince them to let him come outside tomorrow with a mask and we'll have masks too. He needs people around and he needs some sort of stimulation or he will just fade away.
    Quote Originally Posted by nutmegchoi View Post
    That's terrible. I'm so sorry she has to go through with that.

    My boyfriend's boss' wife is in the same situation.
    They just moved her 91 year old mother from nursing home to COVID hospital for terminal patients.
    She has pneumonia from coronavirus and her lungs are failing.
    I don't think she can ever see her mother again while she's still alive.
    I'm sorry for all you two are going through.

    Thanks for the thoughts all, now the trick is keeping my wife from falling off the edge...

  10. #11785
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    Our neighbor, who is a nurse, brought her mother to their house from the assisted living, but she does not have significant dementia, so feasible. For an elderly parent with significant dementia that would be an extremely difficult challenge, even for trained medical people.
    Nursing homes, cruise ships, war ships, prisons, detention centers, churches, --tough places to be right now. During the Spanish Flu WWI military barracks were a particularly hazardous place to be.

  11. #11786
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    And to think, not long ago Trump was saying we should reopen the country two days from now.

  12. #11787
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    Quote Originally Posted by The SnowShow View Post
    And to think, not long ago Trump was saying we should reopen the country two days from now.
    Looks like there's going to be thousands of Christians gathering together on Sunday, adding some real juice to this whole thing for the next month or so.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  13. #11788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Looks like there's going to be thousands of Christians gathering together on Sunday, adding some real juice to this whole thing for the next month or so.
    Awesome.

  14. #11789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Can you source the 70% number? I am having boatloads of trouble trying to track down any solid number on sensitivity while plenty of people throw out 70% 82% or 96%.... or 50% for the IgG/IgM...

    Wouldn't viremia be the wrong term since none of the samples are serum?

    Can you point me to the IgM+PCR study?

    Personally... I have deep suspicions about the (in)adequacy of NP sample collection technique for a lot of users.

    Today I saw something from a test manufacturer that confirmed my immunoassay concerns: potential crossreactivity to the 4 common human coronaviruses.
    I can't post pdf's to the board, here are some links. In terms of the absolute % #'s, they will vary a bit with time from infection onset to date of testing.

    "Antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in patients of novel coronavirus disease 2019." Clin Infect Dis. 2020 Mar 28. pii: ciaa344. doi: 10.1093/cid/ciaa344

    "Profiling Early Humoral Response to Diagnose Novel Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)" Clin Infect Dis. 2020 Mar 21. pii: ciaa310. doi: 10.1093/cid/ciaa310.

    "Breadth of concomitant immune responses prior to patient recovery: a case report of non-severe COVID-19" Nature Medicine https://doi.org/10.1038/s41591-020-0819-2.

    "Temporal profiles of viral load in posterior oropharyngeal saliva samples and serum antibody responses during infection by SARS-CoV-2: an observational cohort study." Lancet Infect Dis. 2020 doi: 10.1016/S1473-3099(20)30196-1

    "A serological assay to detect SARS-CoV-2 seroconversion in humans". https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....17.20037713v1

    You are correct, viremia /virus in the blood isn't the right term- viral load was what I intended.

    Re: cross reactivity. The 2 main antigens that have been used for Sars-1 and Mers assays remain the 2 main antigens for detecting Sars-2 antibodies: Nucleocapsid (N) and Spike (S). The N protein has dominated the early assays released for Sars-2, as N is not glycosylated nor has disulfide bonds and was much easier for test makers to produce as a recombinant in bacteria. Based on the early work with Sars1, the N protein did show some cross reactivity with the 4 human coronaviruses that cause common cold. Addition of the other coronavirus N proteins is sometimes used to help define the "background" in an assay. The Spike glycoprotein was harder to produce requiring mammalian cell systems and yields were low, though the RBD receptor binding domain of Spike has been used as it has the lowest homology among all the coronavirus proteins and is the primary target of neutralizing antibodies. Antibodies from patients to the Spike of Sars-1 was not found to be cross reactive to the other human coronas in these early studies, in some studies the Spike RBD was used to confirm a positive Ab to N as Sars1 specific.

    Where I work we develop these types of tests. We have purchased several from overseas companies in China and Korea that have been total crap in our hands- positive on archived "normal" and other disease samples. My take is in an effort to get these quickly to market that in some cases the diligence has not been done to ensure accuracy. A few of these have made it into the US market either through second site resellers, either without FDA EUA approval or with minimal data claims. We're very cognizant of not putting out an assay that will not hold up to scrutiny.

    The antibody tests (we) have developed based on the virus Spike trimer should get EUA sign off sometime in the next 2-3 weeks if things hold course. The Spike we have made has strong binding to ACE2 and to select neutralizing antibodies cross reactive with Sars1, and so far picking up IgM and IgG to all of the confirmed rtPCR pos serum samples we have been able to get a hold of. Cleaner backgrounds/ better specificity in our hands than N protein and some others we've evaluated. Not sure what good juju I had but we were hitting 50-100X better expression/production than what had been reported by others in the literature out of the gate, been sending material out to be evaluated at multiple sites in the US. Still, we were delayed 2-3 weeks in March because we couldn't get enough true pos samples for our assay developers to say with confidence what we had was going to work on expanded serum sets.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  15. #11790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Looks like there's going to be thousands of Christians gathering together on Sunday, adding some real juice to this whole thing for the next month or so.
    And at the same time, there's a huge social media outcry to prevent people in Colorado from leaving their 'Home County' to hike/bike/ski, etc. which is probably crossing the line of what is truly necessary.

    Next, you can't leave your neighborhood to walk/bike/hike, however, it is OK to go to church to worship and visit the grocery/liquor/MJ stores?

    WTF?

  16. #11791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud View Post
    And at the same time, there's a huge social media outcry to prevent people in Colorado from leaving their 'Home County' to hike/bike/ski, etc. which is probably crossing the line of what is truly necessary.
    That seems lax, the mayor of Seattle was on the local NPR station today telling people that they really shouldn't even be going for a run in their neighborhood, and that the "stay at home" order meant that you should be indoors unless you are going to the grocery store, the pharmacy, or the doctor.
    I remember a bottomless freedom...

  17. #11792
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    That seems lax, the mayor of Seattle was on the local NPR station today telling people that they really shouldn't even be going for a run in their neighborhood, and that the "stay at home" order meant that you should be indoors unless you are going to the grocery store, the pharmacy, or the doctor.
    Yeah, until they put up road blocks, I don't see how they can keep people from going on a hike in the woods.

  18. #11793
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    Basalt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud View Post
    And at the same time, there's a huge social media outcry to prevent people in Colorado from leaving their 'Home County' to hike/bike/ski, etc. which is probably crossing the line of what is truly necessary.

    Next, you can't leave your neighborhood to walk/bike/hike, however, it is OK to go to church to worship and visit the grocery/liquor/MJ stores?

    WTF?
    Letís be honest, people shouldnít be leaving their county to go hike/ski/bike.

    It doesnít seem that hard...stay the fuck at home.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "We had nice 3 days in your autonomous mountain realm last weekend." - Tom from Austria (the Rax ski guy)

  19. #11794
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    I can't post pdf's to the board, here are some links. In terms of the absolute % #'s, they will vary a bit with time from infection onset to date of testing.

    "Antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in patients of novel coronavirus disease 2019." Clin Infect Dis. 2020 Mar 28. pii: ciaa344. doi: 10.1093/cid/ciaa344

    "Profiling Early Humoral Response to Diagnose Novel Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)" Clin Infect Dis. 2020 Mar 21. pii: ciaa310. doi: 10.1093/cid/ciaa310.

    "Breadth of concomitant immune responses prior to patient recovery: a case report of non-severe COVID-19" Nature Medicine https://doi.org/10.1038/s41591-020-0819-2.

    "Temporal profiles of viral load in posterior oropharyngeal saliva samples and serum antibody responses during infection by SARS-CoV-2: an observational cohort study." Lancet Infect Dis. 2020 doi: 10.1016/S1473-3099(20)30196-1

    "A serological assay to detect SARS-CoV-2 seroconversion in humans". https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....17.20037713v1

    You are correct, viremia /virus in the blood isn't the right term- viral load was what I intended.

    Re: cross reactivity. The 2 main antigens that have been used for Sars-1 and Mers assays remain the 2 main antigens for detecting Sars-2 antibodies: Nucleocapsid (N) and Spike (S). The N protein has dominated the early assays released for Sars-2, as N is not glycosylated nor has disulfide bonds and was much easier for test makers to produce as a recombinant in bacteria. Based on the early work with Sars1, the N protein did show some cross reactivity with the 4 human coronaviruses that cause common cold. Addition of the other coronavirus N proteins is sometimes used to help define the "background" in an assay. The Spike glycoprotein was harder to produce requiring mammalian cell systems and yields were low, though the RBD receptor binding domain of Spike has been used as it has the lowest homology among all the coronavirus proteins and is the primary target of neutralizing antibodies. Antibodies from patients to the Spike of Sars-1 was not found to be cross reactive to the other human coronas in these early studies, in some studies the Spike RBD was used to confirm a positive Ab to N as Sars1 specific.

    Where I work we develop these types of tests. We have purchased several from overseas companies in China and Korea that have been total crap in our hands- positive on archived "normal" and other disease samples. My take is in an effort to get these quickly to market that in some cases the diligence has not been done to ensure accuracy. A few of these have made it into the US market either through second site resellers, either without FDA EUA approval or with minimal data claims. We're very cognizant of not putting out an assay that will not hold up to scrutiny.

    The antibody tests (we) have developed based on the virus Spike trimer should get EUA sign off sometime in the next 2-3 weeks if things hold course. The Spike we have made has strong binding to ACE2 and to select neutralizing antibodies cross reactive with Sars1, and so far picking up IgM and IgG to all of the confirmed rtPCR pos serum samples we have been able to get a hold of. Cleaner backgrounds/ better specificity in our hands than N protein and some others we've evaluated. Not sure what good juju I had but we were hitting 50-100X better expression/production than what had been reported by others in the literature out of the gate, been sending material out to be evaluated at multiple sites in the US. Still, we were delayed 2-3 weeks in March because we couldn't get enough true pos samples for our assay developers to say with confidence what we had was going to work on expanded serum sets.
    1. Thanks for the articles, will read!

    2. The S test is the best damned news I've heard in a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  20. #11795
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch6364 View Post
    Letís be honest, people shouldnít be leaving their county to go hike/ski/bike.

    It doesnít seem that hard...stay the fuck at home.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    You must live in a nice place to hike and bike.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  21. #11796
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    WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch6364 View Post
    Let’s be honest, people shouldn’t be leaving their county to go hike/ski/bike.

    It doesn’t seem that hard...stay the fuck at home.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Says the guy who lives in a town that straddles two gigantic counties.
    I remember a bottomless freedom...

  22. #11797
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch6364 View Post
    Let’s be honest, people shouldn’t be leaving their county to go hike/ski/bike.

    It doesn’t seem that hard...stay the fuck at home.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Yeah I would agree that that you shouldn't be traveling far, and do the social distance, but it is absoutley wrong to just ban everyone from "your" county. The land mass of the western states is massive and there is plenty of room to space people out. The argument of trailheads having mass of amounts of cars is fucking absurd when you compare it to the King Soopers or Costco parking lot.

  23. #11798
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    Oct 2004
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    50 miles E of Paradise
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    9,253
    Quote Originally Posted by Lvovsky View Post
    You can do all of those things in scuba regulator.

    That’s why scuba is better than pandemic.
    I don’t know. I once had the misfortune of being assigned a hungover Asian tourist as a dive buddy at Molokini. He was woofing 30 sec after we left the harbor. He started blowing chunks through his regulator as soon as we got him in the water - fish were swarming us. Pretty disgusting

    At least the Captain comp’d me for a subsequent day and assigned me a gorgeous lady as buddy, so it wasn’t a complete loss
    Check Out Ullr's Mobile Avalanche Safety Tools for iOS and Android
    www.ullrlabs.com

  24. #11799
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    Nov 2005
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    And now for some light hearted humor.
    Yes, there are people this dumb. And high.

    https://www.newsweek.com/iowa-woman-...n=Distribution
    Forum Cross Pollinator

  25. #11800
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    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
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    19,663
    Quote Originally Posted by KenJongIll View Post
    Correct me if Iím wrong but this kind of data from the NYTimes/WH is completely misleading.

    ďThe White House coronavirus task force released a breakdown of testing data Thursday that gave a sense of how hard the virus is hitting different age groups, further confirming that older people are the most likely to contract it.

    Among people who were tested:

    11 percent of those under 25 were positive.

    17 percent of those between 25 and 45 were positive.

    21 percent of those between 45 and 65 were positive.

    22 percent of those between 65 and 55 were positive.

    24 percent of those over 85 were positive.Ē

    I know that in Wake County, NC, they are not even testing anyone unless they have all 3+ major symptoms, or over 65, or a 1st responder.
    So that data from the NYT/WH is pointless.
    This shit drives me crazy... the data of positive cases is useless. Hospitalized and deaths..has more value at this point. Am I wrong?
    It's wrong, but it doesn't offend me that much. They could have fixed it simply by saying "...confirming that older people are most affected" or something along those lines.

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