Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[Rideski]

Also, I have most of a box of n95s with the valve. I got them last year for yard work. Thought about dropping them off at the local hospital, but are they of any use with the exhale valve? I’m guessing no but maybe they can tape it shut? Also, will they take an opened box? Seems like in Summit and other cases absolutely. Do I just drive up to the employee parking lot and hand it off to the first nurse I see?


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I’m hearing of senior care facilities where the staff have none.
Probably several places with less stringent standards than hospitals that would like to have them.

[klauss]

Sorry if already posted, but seems relevant to current thread discussion about masks, community exposure, etc. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...h-care-workers

Good share

[powpig]

US Military Decontamination Techniques & Procedures

[Piggity]

What if one of you guys brought it back from Italy? Anyone have severe flu in Dec/Jan/Feb?? If this is correct, There’s a small chance some of you have had it and already cleared the infection

Read the last paragraph

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/81797...s-pass-china-s

Remuzzi says he is now hearing information about it from general practitioners. "They remember having seen very strange pneumonia, very severe, particularly in old people in December and even November," he says. "This means that the virus was circulating, at least in [the northern region of] Lombardy and before we were aware of this outbreak occurring in China."

He says it was impossible to combat something you didn't know existed.

[bobz]

Harvey Fucking Weinstein caught Covid at Rikers. (edit: They're saying that he may have brought it into prison with him, having obtained it from hospitals or elsewhere.)

[jono]

Sorry if already posted, but seems relevant to current thread discussion about masks, community exposure, etc. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...h-care-workers

I find myself kind of irritated with this article: not one mention of the super obvious and meaningful fact that the gen pop in successful places wear masks in public all the time. It's a factor and he lists every factor he can think of except that. Expecting double-think in support of hoarding supplies in medical facilities is going to bite us in the ass. Just like claiming no one but medical personnel know how to use dust masks when, as OG noted, it's more likely the opposite.

[bennymac]

Harvey Fucking Weinstein caught Covid at Rikers. (edit: They're saying that he may have brought it into prison with him, having obtained it from hospitals or elsewhere.)

That's why he was so hunched over on the walker! - shit I bet he wishes he could have told everyone in court he was also stricken with the pandemic as he attempted to court sympathy and get a shorter sentence

[jono]

What are methods to clean/sanitize masks?

Evidently Providence in PDX is sending them out to be "cleaned" as long as they're not heavily soiled and the company doing it claims to have proof they still work after, but I didn't catch how.

I am just a schmuck reading up on this on the internet but it sounds like the virus dies at 60-70C. (Hopefully someone else can improve that; I think it's generic to corona.)

Again, I have no proof of this, but it seems like heating to 70 C (158 F) would have a better chance of leaving the filter's structure intact than hitting it with a liquid solution. Maybe not, too, I'm just saying that even most heat sensitive plastics can withstand 70 C just fine--it's a hot cup of coffee. I'd think UV has to penetrate if the virus gets into the filter.

[powdork]

What if one of you guys brought it back from Italy? Anyone have severe flu in Dec/Jan/Feb?? If this is correct, There’s a small chance some of you have had it and already cleared the infection

Read the last paragraph

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/81797...s-pass-china-s

Remuzzi says he is now hearing information about it from general practitioners. "They remember having seen very strange pneumonia, very severe, particularly in old people in December and even November," he says. "This means that the virus was circulating, at least in [the northern region of] Lombardy and before we were aware of this outbreak occurring in China."

He says it was impossible to combat something you didn't know existed.

meh. he heard about people that had the flu. same rumors as everywhere else where it is spreading exactly as it would as if it started in late January to early February, not November or December.

[Ripzalot]

False statements and failure to act quickly was never a good plan.

nope.

[cat in january]

Or put it in the sun for a short time.

Speaking of, anyone seen anything on how long it takes for direct sun to kill it? Sunlight is basically like kryptonite for viruses right?

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Yeah uv should kill anything it hits for like fifteen minutes. Would need to rotate to get all the surfaces.

[gravitylover]

Yeah uv should kill anything it hits for like fifteen minutes. Would need to rotate to get all the surfaces.

UV but not a regular blacklight right? My wife brought me ads for blacklights yesterday that said they kill Covid19 and she was ready to buy them. I said no.

[MontuckyFried]

First COVID related death here in my town. It was an elderly person with underlying health issues (of course), but either way it's making its way around.

[cat in january]

UV but not a regular blacklight right? My wife brought me ads for blacklights yesterday that said they kill Covid19 and she was ready to buy them. I said no.

Not an expert by any means, but appears a black light has too long of a wavelength to be effective.

Back to earlier comment, it was based on goggle sterilization and packaging where the virus could have migrated below the surface it may not be effective.

[huckbucket]

Current testing numbers. You can see your specific state in the link. https://covidtracking.com/data/

[MagnificentUnicorn]

N95 masks donned and fitted by molding the metal strip on top are better than nothing but really just a dust mask at that point.

We get fit tested annually for N95s. It involves trying to get a good seal and then putting a hole in the mask and inserting a tube attached to a calibrated testing unit. You sit there and breathe normally for a few minutes. It tells you whether you pass or fail. We have four or five different n95s to choose from. If you fail with all of them you are required to use a CAPR/PAPR for any patient with airborne precautions.

Maybe use a cheap dust mask or other mouth/nose covering and leave the N95s for people on the frontlines that have been fit tested.


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[huckbucket]

Let's please stop speculating about mask efficiency. Like 99% of the questions that people think they understand, this is another topic that has been studied extensively (see CDC links for recs). One example pub for volcanic ash (this isn't my field and I'm not an expert).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...38463917308003

[CascadeLuke]

Thought I’d share this off my feed. Written by an infected nurse in Washington.




This is the story of a nurse that got COVID-19. He’s 31 with no underlying conditions. This is his covid experience —-

COVID19 is not like the flu...at all... How do I know? Because I’ve lived through it to tell the tale!

Memoirs of a 31 y.o. male with no underlying health conditions.

March 3, 2020-Bronchitis like illness started, dry cough, no fever

March 5, 2020-Low grade fever starts, still thinking bronchitis

March 6, 2020-Fever climbs from 99.8 to 102.6 in one hour, thought it was flu and was now outside the Tamiflu window, stayed home for symptom management.

March 9, 2020-Fever of >102 continues, this isn’t flu, go to urgent care, diagnosed with pneumonia, started on Levaquin.

March 11, 2020-3 doses of Levaquin in, no improvement in symptoms, go to ER. Admitted, swabbed for COVID19, IV antibiotics got pneumonia on chest CT.

March 12, 2020-Get to a room and placed on supplemental oxygen via nasal cannula, 1 liter per minute (lpm). I’m only able to achieve 500 on my incentive spirometer, for perspective-my healthy lungs could hit 4000.

March 13, 2020-O2 saturation begins to decline, oxygen increased to 2 lpm, then 3 lpm, then 5 lpm. Oxygen saturation 88% on 5 lpm. The decision is made to use high flow (vapotherm) and move to ICU. Placed on 40 lpm and 60% oxygen. I’m terrified at this point because vapotherm is all that is standing between me and the ventilator. This is the moment I would have died at home had I not come to the hospital when I did. I would have respiratory arrested in my bed.

March 14, 2020-I have a bad coughing spell, my oxygen saturation drops to the 80’s. I’m still on 40 lpm and 60%. I’m trying to gasp for air, but because of the condition of my lungs, can only take small breaths without coughing more. I feel as though I’m about to die, my heart is racing, oxygen still low, and I’m sweating profusely. Im in respiratory distress! I pressed my call light trying to get the attention of anyone who can help. My nurse was in another room tending to another sick patient. Fortunately he sees me and comes to my room. I am now on 40 lpm and 100% oxygen, next step is the ventilator. I’m terrified. My breathing slows as my oxygen saturation slowly returns to the 90’s. I’m weaned back down to 60%. The same thing happens again in the night, and again I thought I was about to leave this world. Again I’m on 100%, this time for several hours. I’m slowly weaned again to 60%.

March 15, 2020-My morning arterial blood gas (which hurts like a &#129324 is normal. I get weaned to 50%.

March 16, 2020-My oxygen saturation is 97%, I’m weaned further to 30 lpm and 40%.

March 17, 2020-I’ve been in ICU 4 days, forced to use a bedpan because my oxygen saturation drops if I turn or even move too much. I am unable to clean myself; I’m feeling completely helpless and so embarrassed, but my nurses were great and very understanding. I now truly understand my patients’ feelings from all these years of nursing. I’m weaned to 25 lpm and 30%. I’m going to the medical floor.

March 18, 2020-I’m weaned to 28%. I can achieve 1500 on my incentive spirometer finally. I’m hopeful to be weaned to a regular nasal cannula. The provider comes in. I’ve been waiting for my swab results. I tested positive for COVID19...6.5 days of waiting for the outside lab to process the lab. I’m relieved because I finally have a diagnosis, a reason I’ve been so sick. I’m weaned to 4 lpm on a regular nasal cannula, 4 hours later I’m weaned to 2 lpm. 4 hours later I’m weaned to room air. My oxygen saturation stats 93% and above all night.

March 19, 2020-As I write this, I’m waiting to attempt a 6 minute walk test to see if my oxygen stays up, so I can go home. I’ve had no visitors this entire time due to my isolation precautions.

Guys, this is why social isolation is a thing. As a 31 y.o., I wasn’t supposed to get sick. I wasn’t supposed to be admitted to the hospital or the ICU for that matter. We’ve already had several deaths from COVID19 in this area. I thank God I wasn’t one of them! However, many won’t be as fortunate as I have been. Many will die, especially those with any lung or heart problems. So please, I beg you to #stayhome

[liv2ski]

Damn, that sounds brutal

[frorider]

Ripz don’t bother fucking that chicken, you’re not going to change our minds. On a regular basis he’s said outright bullshit like the FDA has approved hydroxychloroquine for Covid treatment...then that gets ‘corrected’ by one of the adults in the room. Hell just recently he stated that auto makers are looking at making masks (true), and then because he’s been a con artist his entire life, this soon morphed into Trump then saying the auto makers are ALREADY making them.

During crisis mgmt credibility is important.

[rideit]

nope.

]

[MultiVerse]

nope.

Watched a few minutes and it's a self promoting plea for donations followed by an argument the limited travel ban protected America.

The problem with that theory is it was a symbolic performative gesture. For example, most Grand Princess passengers in quarantine at Travis Air Force Base were not tested for coronavirus—often at federal officials’ urging

Despite assurances from Vice President Mike Pence that all Grand Princess cruise ship passengers quarantined at Travis Air Force Base would be tested for COVID-19, two-thirds of them have declined, often at the encouragement of federal health officials.

Those who spoke to The Chronicle said federal health officials dissuaded them from taking the test, saying if they had no symptoms during the mandatory 14-day quarantine, a test was unnecessary. The federal official and cruise passengers also said the test compliance would have been higher had tests been available to administer shortly after they were removed from the ship and sent to the base.

The low test numbers fly in the face of what government officials had promised after the passengers, many California residents, were removed from the stricken Grand Princess cruise line beginning March 9 and sent to military facilities across the country.


Even though the passengers were quarantined for 14 days they still mingled freely in spite of 23 known infected and were then allowed to disperse into the population.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...r-15141731.php

[jono]

Let's please stop speculating about mask efficiency. Like 99% of the questions that people think they understand, this is another topic that has been studied extensively (see CDC links for recs). One example pub for volcanic ash (this isn't my field and I'm not an expert).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...38463917308003

That article appears to have some applicable studies in its reference list, but it's specifically focused on larger ("several micron") particles. As they state:

None of these studies considered volcanic ash particles, which tend to be coarser (with a median diameter of several micrometres; Horwell, 2007) than urban particulates or pathogens, nor the wide variety of RP typically used in volcanic crises around the world. There is evidence that the particle size of the challenge aerosol/dust, as well as the mask material and flow rate, impact substantially on the FE. Wake and Brown (1988) showed in their experiments that FE varied from 1 to 55%, depending on particle size of the challenge aerosol.

Mofro has stated the relevant particle size as 0.125 microns. Which is about 37% of the size used to qualify N95 masks.

I agree that this is something people think they understand and often don't--in the medical community and otherwise. Filtered air is commonly used in industrial settings where the purity required is much higher (.05 micron filters for compressed air seem downright cheap suddenly). The fact that N95 masks are discussed as if they are a gold standard indicates how many people do not actually read the standard or even the datasheets from the manufacturers. So, should the discussion get more granular and assume less about everyone's knowledge, or the opposite?

My personal interest is trying to help my wife establish an acceptable level of protection for putting her face next to patients' faces. In an industrial setting the standard of allowable risk would be much lower--basically, an employer is responsible for ensuring safety. Somehow a lot of medical/dental-minded folks just accept some risk (and seldom quantify it--just copy everyone else a la "standard of care" with all the fallacies that brings). That is extremely frustrating and destroys confidence. If OSHA was the only consideration, PAPR/CAPR should be the standard unless some less expensive solution can be proven to work--what Aaron described. When was the last time you saw a dentist wearing anything like that?

[MultiVerse]

Mofro has started the relevant particle size as 0.125 microns. Which is about 37% of the size used to qualify N95 masks.

The papers I read WRT to the flu were more focused on droplet size than the microscopic size of the virus itself. I don't know if it makes a difference, just a hypothesis, but if a mask stops the larger droplets that matter most then the better performing N-95s effectively prevent infection when used properly.

[jono]

The papers I read WRT to the flu were more focused on droplet size than the microscopic size of the virus itself. I don't know if it makes a difference, just a hypothesis, but if a mask stops the larger droplets that matter most then the better performing N-95s effectively prevent infection when used properly.

If you can put the mask on the patient it's definitely a lot easier, yes. My frustrations with dentists are not relevant at all to the discussion of wearing masks in public.