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  1. #10751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    Hard to say. You can't really blame China for the abysmal response of the United Stated, the most powerful, richest country in the world that should have had a much quicker, smarter and better response, because we have been training for this for decades, but in the last few years we have depleted budgets, closed divisions and removed people who would have help keep us from going into a country wide two plus month shut down that fucked our economy.

    So, yeah, hard to calculate how much of this is China's fault. Every case in the US is our own fucking fault, and if we don't recognize that, and make changes here instead of worrying about a wet market, this shit will happen again.

    But yeah, keep tooting the horn about wet markets instead of taking a good long look about how we, the US, can avoid this shit form next time. Because it is way easier to just blame someone else. America First.
    I agree... looks like a glitch in your quoting me twice?


    On another note, does anyone know if N95 masks have an expiration date? I found a stash that I placed in a closet not long after 911. Lots of talk about biological terrorism, so I put a box on the top closet shelf. Things are at least 18 years old, so I'd hate to donate to a hospital/ Doctor and find out they were no longer any good.

    EDIT: Seems like they are ok: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID...s/FAQ-N95.aspx
    Screw the net, Surf the backcountry!

  2. #10752
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    if you had any doubt Trump is an asshole

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...rday-1.5522003

    The news comes as Minnesota-based company 3M revealed Friday that because of the Trump administration's invocation of the Defence Production Act ó which allows the president to boost industrial production of critically needed goods ó the manufacturer is under orders not to send U.S.-made masks to other countries, including Canada.

    In a statement, 3M said that halting such exports could adversely affect America's own supply if other countries choose to retaliate, prompting President Donald Trump to reveal that his administration was "not at all happy" with the company.

    3M faces pressure from Trump order to stop exporting N95 masks to Canada

    Updated
    Fight over N95 masks shows Trump testing ethical, legal limits in COVID-19 crisis



    Trudeau addressed the dispute during his Friday briefing, stating that failing to send supplies destined for Canada "could end up hurting Americans as much as it hurts anybody else."

    But the prime minister said Saturday that he wasn't seeking retaliatory measures against the U.S. ó such as blocking Canadian nurses from Windsor, Ont., from travelling across the American border to Detroit.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #10753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Lahey View Post
    That is quite possibly the dumbest fucking shit written on tgr ever.
    Congrats.
    Just chiming in to challenge you to dispel his points. Trump has more time than almost any other government and totally fucked up the response. Now people like you want to blame the Chinese! Like we should rely on China for our national defense...

    Xi is doing a great job! Bootlicker.

  4. #10754
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    Mask the people.

    Unmask the aliases.

  5. #10755
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddy View Post
    I agree... looks like a glitch in your quoting me twice?


    On another note, does anyone know if N95 masks have an expiration date? I found a stash that I placed in a closet not long after 911. Lots of talk about biological terrorism, so I put a box on the top closet shelf. Things are at least 18 years old, so I'd hate to donate to a hospital/ Doctor and find out they were no longer any good.
    18 years is pretty old. the elastic straps are probably bad and you need those to keep a seal, but if the elastic is still good the masks are probably g2g
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  6. #10756
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    if you had any doubt Trump is an asshole

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...rday-1.5522003

    The news comes as Minnesota-based company 3M revealed Friday that because of the Trump administration's invocation of the Defence Production Act — which allows the president to boost industrial production of critically needed goods — the manufacturer is under orders not to send U.S.-made masks to other countries, including Canada.

    In a statement, 3M said that halting such exports could adversely affect America's own supply if other countries choose to retaliate, prompting President Donald Trump to reveal that his administration was "not at all happy" with the company.

    3M faces pressure from Trump order to stop exporting N95 masks to Canada

    Updated
    Fight over N95 masks shows Trump testing ethical, legal limits in COVID-19 crisis



    Trudeau addressed the dispute during his Friday briefing, stating that failing to send supplies destined for Canada "could end up hurting Americans as much as it hurts anybody else."

    But the prime minister said Saturday that he wasn't seeking retaliatory measures against the U.S. — such as blocking Canadian nurses from Windsor, Ont., from travelling across the American border to Detroit.
    Oh 3M is pure asshole in this one. PURE asshole. SOP for 3M. And their distributors.

    They painted a GIANT target on themselves by knowing about and enabling their distributors to continuously sell promised PPE orders out from under SEMA/FEMA and US hospitals/emergency services to foreign buyers. They continued to do this AFTER the DPA was put into force. That is waving your dick at your countrymen while rolling in $$$.

    Don't invite the man into your lives.

    Don't expect ham fisted stupid government measures to understand global supply partnerships.

    But whats better than that is don't be a fucking asshole in a national crisis in a way that defies national order and demands government intervention. Then nobody will DPA your ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  7. #10757
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddy View Post
    I agree... looks like a glitch in your quoting me twice?


    On another note, does anyone know if N95 masks have an expiration date? I found a stash that I placed in a closet not long after 911. Lots of talk about biological terrorism, so I put a box on the top closet shelf. Things are at least 18 years old, so I'd hate to donate to a hospital/ Doctor and find out they were no longer any good.
    Iíd think the rubber bands would be brittle.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  8. #10758
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    Oct 2007
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    8,780
    Quote Originally Posted by The SnowShow View Post
    I havenít seen anything about the actual trials. I thought the trials started a week and a half ago in NY. Iíd think weíd know some results?
    Iím just assuming that trials usually take many months to produce reliable results and need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb before official release. Obviously under these circumstances we need a little more urgency and maybe they could be out a little faster, but still a few weeks seems like a pretty ambitious timeline.

    I think that it is one of the many things that the medical community is struggling with. We donít need perfect answers that are going to be printed in the NE journal of medicine, just tell us if thereís any glimmer of hope that itíll work!

    But Iím just a glorified barista who didnít even stay at a holiday inn express last night.

  9. #10759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    18 years is pretty old. the elastic straps are probably bad and you need those to keep a seal, but if the elastic is still good the masks are probably g2g
    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    I’d think the rubber bands would be brittle.
    Thanks... that seems to be the one issue. It's only a box of 10, but if one mask was not sealed, that would still be f'd. And with the Kraft recent delivery to this area, probably no reason to take this risk. I'm not going to put these in circulation (except for local/resident dentists).
    Screw the net, Surf the backcountry!

  10. #10760
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    i posted in the whiteroom
    bout all i memberries is soothing fonts
    #unclemoeswantsyou

    nicklechangers.com
    and yeah i skied with that guy too.

    no touchy though
    Boo yah

    World needs powder
    ďLife has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.Ē
    Hunter S. Thompson

  11. #10761
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddy View Post
    Thanks... that seems to be the one issue. It's only a box of 10, but if one mask was not sealed, that would still be f'd. And with the Kraft recent delivery to this area, probably no reason to take this risk. I'm not going to put these in circulation (except for local/resident dentists).
    remember also they should be fit tested so if they aren't of a common type or all given to one user, they will probably be used as droplet masks... which is OK too
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  12. #10762
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    Actually, it's true. Hospitals and clinics are losing big money because patients are cancelling appointments. Hospitals and clinics throughout WA have announced layoffs and big pay cuts.

    ETA: Pullman Regional Hospital Cuts Employee Pay by 25% due to Revenue Drop From Coronavirus Mandates
    Yep, it's even worse for subcontracted private doc groups who work in hospitals, clinics and surgery centers. Many have a 80% drop in income. Not enough need for hospitals to pull them in full-time and actually pay them if they can just overwork their existing intensivists, er docs and nurses.

  13. #10763
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    I wonder how quickly the hospitals will bounce back once restrictions are lifted. For the most part, those elective surgeries and doctor visits are still going to need to happen. I could see the hospitals being extra busy this summer and next fall.
    It's going to bankrupt many if this continues unfortunately. Surgery centers especially. Obviously caseload will eventually go up a bit but it will never look like before simply because many surgeries that fall under "elective" will be too expensive given the economic fallout in society. Also, there's a good chance insurers will restrict what they will pay for.

  14. #10764
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    No, clearly your post takes that crown. Point out one thing that's incorrect about what he posted.
    This thing is bringing out the JONGs in force and enpowering them to mouth off. (Are we sure these are aliases and not just JONGs??) edit: Not Iceman obviously, the person he was responding to here


    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    Elect a clown, expect a circus.
    Ha! I'm stealing that too. Thats gold

  15. #10765
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP IN7RO View Post
    This is so awesome lol needs to be reposted in case anybody missed it. I played it for my wife 10 minutes ago, now she walking around humming "you gotta keep that distance! its all about that social distance!!"
    Last edited by Diamond Joe; 04-04-2020 at 12:34 PM.

  16. #10766
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    Elect a clown, expect a circus.
    Bumper sticker worthy

  17. #10767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Joe View Post
    This thing is bringing out the JONGs in force and enpowering them to mouth off. (Are we sure these are aliases and not just JONGs??) edit: Not Iceman obviously, the person he was responding to here



    Ha! I'm stealing that too. Thats gold
    Arenít we all iceman, though?
    focus.

  18. #10768
    Join Date
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    I've been iceman since 2007.


    Efit:the 4 years before I had Been blurred.
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  19. #10769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Oh 3M is pure asshole in this one. PURE asshole. SOP for 3M. And their distributors.

    They painted a GIANT target on themselves by knowing about and enabling their distributors to continuously sell promised PPE orders out from under SEMA/FEMA and US hospitals/emergency services to foreign buyers. They continued to do this AFTER the DPA was put into force. That is waving your dick at your countrymen while rolling in $$$.

    Don't invite the man into your lives.

    Don't expect ham fisted stupid government measures to understand global supply partnerships.

    But whats better than that is don't be a fucking asshole in a national crisis in a way that defies national order and demands government intervention. Then nobody will DPA your ass.

    Given the lack of leadership, why wouldn't a bigass company with lots of payroll and lots of shareholders continue BAU?
    It's how they make money. Asking a big fat corporate citizen to have your morals and tribal spirit is a little much, don't you think?
    Perhaps we'd all do well to remember that corporate citizens are not created for moral or humanitarian purposes, but to make money for their owners.

  20. #10770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Name Redacted View Post
    Iím just assuming that trials usually take many months to produce reliable results and need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb before official release. Obviously under these circumstances we need a little more urgency and maybe they could be out a little faster, but still a few weeks seems like a pretty ambitious timeline.

    I think that it is one of the many things that the medical community is struggling with. We donít need perfect answers that are going to be printed in the NE journal of medicine, just tell us if thereís any glimmer of hope that itíll work!

    But Iím just a glorified barista who didnít even stay at a holiday inn express last night.
    A clinical trial is designed by statisticians to enroll so many patients, using calculations based on the estimated magnitude of the benefit as to how many patients are required to produce statistically meaningful results. While most of the docs involved in the study will not know who is getting treatment and who is getting placebo, there is usually someone monitoring the study who knows and if they have the impression that there is an overwhelming benefit (or danger) from the treatment they may analyze the data early. If an overwhelming benefit or risk is discovered they will stop the study and announce results before peer review and publication. There are places where you can look up the design of clinical studies--I used to know where that was but I'm sure anyone with moderate search skills and time on their hands (most of us qualify for the latter) can find it.

    Here is one small study that seems to show some benefit. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....22.20040758v2

    If one opens the study results prematurely there is a danger of Type II error--that the study will miss a benefit of the treatment that would have been discovered if more patients had been studied. It could very well be that HCQ shortens the disease by a small but measureable amount or even reduces the progression to intubation or death by a small percentage--getting results like that could take quite a while and a lot of patients. What everyone is hoping for--a dramatic reduction in respiratory failure and death--should be apparent very quickly, but based on our record of treating viral diseases I think that's unlikely.

    One thing to look for is whether results are reported as absolute or relative risk reduction. If a treatment improves survival from 1% to 2% that's is often expressed as a 100% improvement, or a doubling of survival, which is technically accurate but very misleading in that it hides the fact that the treatment helped 1% of the patients it was given to. You can find the actual figures if you read the paper; if you only read the press release you will get the falsely optimistic relative risk reduction. If the press release said the treatment reduced mortality from 99% to 98% no one would read it.

  21. #10771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvovsky View Post
    Bumper sticker worthy
    git sum: https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

  22. #10772
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  23. #10773
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtle plague View Post
    I've been iceman since 2007.


    Efit:the 4 years before I had Been blurred.
    I've been John Malkovich the whole time.

  24. #10774
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    I've been John Malkovich the whole time.
    I'm Spartacus!

  25. #10775
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    A clinical trial is designed by statisticians to enroll so many patients, using calculations based on the estimated magnitude of the benefit as to how many patients are required to produce statistically meaningful results. While most of the docs involved in the study will not know who is getting treatment and who is getting placebo, there is usually someone monitoring the study who knows and if they have the impression that there is an overwhelming benefit (or danger) from the treatment they may analyze the data early. If an overwhelming benefit or risk is discovered they will stop the study and announce results before peer review and publication. There are places where you can look up the design of clinical studies--I used to know where that was but I'm sure anyone with moderate search skills and time on their hands (most of us qualify for the latter) can find it.

    Here is one small study that seems to show some benefit. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....22.20040758v2

    If one opens the study results prematurely there is a danger of Type II error--that the study will miss a benefit of the treatment that would have been discovered if more patients had been studied. It could very well be that HCQ shortens the disease by a small but measureable amount or even reduces the progression to intubation or death by a small percentage--getting results like that could take quite a while and a lot of patients. What everyone is hoping for--a dramatic reduction in respiratory failure and death--should be apparent very quickly, but based on our record of treating viral diseases I think that's unlikely.

    One thing to look for is whether results are reported as absolute or relative risk reduction. If a treatment improves survival from 1% to 2% that's is often expressed as a 100% improvement, or a doubling of survival, which is technically accurate but very misleading in that it hides the fact that the treatment helped 1% of the patients it was given to. You can find the actual figures if you read the paper; if you only read the press release you will get the falsely optimistic relative risk reduction. If the press release said the treatment reduced mortality from 99% to 98% no one would read it.
    Thanks... that's enlightening. Great to have a resident MD on the forum (or retired)
    Screw the net, Surf the backcountry!

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