Release Test of popular touring bindings by outdoorguide.ch (german)

[Heino77]

This was posted today in our local community: https://www.alpenverein.de/chameleon...ngen_30715.pdf

Don't worry it's not an iranian video which makes you divorce your wife.

Maybe someone can make use of it. It is german only at the moment. When the interest is high enough I would translate all of it.

Outdoorguide.ch tested popular touring bindings and frame bindings according to the release pressure requested against the adjusted Z-value.

"Sichtfenstereinstellung: größtegemessene Abweichung vom tatsächlichen Wert beiDrehsturz (in %). 2)"
This means "biggest measured difference from adjusted value in a pivot release in %.

On the bottom of this diagram you find the various adjusted z-values.
The green, yellow and orange (BAD) bars indicate how much more pressure from the machine was requested to trigger a release.
For instance the ATK Freeraider needs a lot more force to release than its adjusted z-value.


"Abweichung vommaschinell eingestellten Z-Wert 3) - Rücklage, Vorlage"

With this diagramm they want to show how much more pressure is requested when you are backseating or have a too high angle forward.
Naturally bindings where only the heel releases perform worse in this test especially in releases which are caused by backseat crashes.

"Maximale Abweichung vom maschinell eingestelltenZ-Wert (8,5) beimDrehsturz innerhalb25 Auslösungen 4)"

This is a average machine tested value of 25 releases from a adjusted Z-value if 8,5.
First bar is pivot fall left. Second bar pivot fall right and the last one is vertical fall.

"Benötigte Energie(„Schlag/Stoß“) füreine (Fehl-)Auslösung 5)"

The last bars show us how much force is needed for a prerelease.



If there is anything else you want to have translated just let me know.
Sorry for bad english - it's not my mother tongue and I fabricated this pamphlet in my lunch break.

[frorider]

Thx for posting that.

As a Vipec, Alpinist, Kingpin, and Ion owner the Vipecs have really been my overall favorite & this article reinforces that...

[smooth operator]

So if I understand correctly from quickly skimming through the table, the freeraider' s lateral release is way too strong, i.e. one would do good to tone that one down a bit?
Will read the whole thing later today. Thanks for sharing!

[waxoff]

Great input!

My memory slips though, which of the tested bindings are certified against the DIN norm for release? Please refresh me.

[telemon10]

Interesting stuff. My simplistic take on the big picture is; Shift is overall winner (all green scores), Tecton is second (all green, 1 yellow), followed by Dynafit Rotation and Vipec (all green, 2 yellow). The rest suck . Glad I have Tectons and that I got my daughter Shifts.

Thanks for interpreting!

[Heino77]

Take this article with a grain of salt.
German community disagrees partly with the test results. So does ATK.

Of this test only G3 Ion and ATK Freeraider are not TÜV certified.

This is ATKs official statement:

http://kundalini.ch/wp-content/uploa...B-TEST_eng.pdf

[plugboots]

In my 2 datapoints with ATK raider 2.0, the settings more mimic actual DIN release, and our Dynafits need to be set higher to mimic DIN.

[ExPowderSnob]

a link to the website that the pdf is from... Chrome can translate pretty decently:

https://www.outdoor-guide.ch/test/te...urenbindungen/

[telemon10]

Take this article with a grain of salt.
German community disagrees partly with the test results. So does ATK.

Of this test only G3 Ion and ATK Freeraider are not TÜV certified.

This is ATKs official statement:

http://kundalini.ch/wp-content/uploa...B-TEST_eng.pdf

Kind of a lame statement if you ask me....they say that the test "presents several inaccuracies" and "some aspects are completely wrong", but don't offer any info about where the inaccuracies lie or what aspects are totally wrong. Nor do they provide any data to back up their claims other than to say they are the best.

[smooth operator]

Kind of a lame statement if you ask me....they say that the test "presents several inaccuracies" and "some aspects are completely wrong", but don't offer any info about where the inaccuracies lie or what aspects are totally wrong. Nor do they provide any data to back up their claims other than to say they are the best.

My take as well.
I interpreted the results as 'put the lateral release on your ATK a notch lower and you'll be fine' . But I am an ATK fanboy and may be biased as such.

[skifishbum]

i don't sprechen ze duetch
can anyone tell me what machine they used
cause if it is a hand held VT calibrator
them numbers don't mean shit

[Heino77]

i don't sprechen ze duetch
can anyone tell me what machine they used
cause if it is a hand held VT calibrator
them numbers don't mean shit

It seems they used test machines for alpine bindings though because in another statement from a guy who spoke with ATK they claim that the bindings need be tested with a machine for pinbindings (where is the difference though)?


SO HABEN WIR GETESTET

LABORTEST

Entscheidend für die Sicherheit, die Skibindungen bieten, ist ein kalkulierbares und zuverlässiges Auslöseverhalten, sobald es zu Belastungen kommt, die zu Verletzungen führen können. Deshalb wurden eingangs alle Bindungen mit dem Bindungsprüfgerät Safetronic von Wintersteiger überprüft. Dieses Gerät wird auch zur Bindungseinstellung im Sportfachhandel verwendet. Alle Tests wurden mit einem einheitlichen Skimodell (K2 Wayback 96, Länge 177 cm) und Schuhmodell (Scarpa Maestrale RS, Sohlenlänge 314 mm) durchgeführt.


Thats how we tested
LABORATORY TEST
The safety offered by ski bindings depends on a calculable and reliable release behavior as soon as loads occur that could lead to injuries. For this reason, all bindings were initially tested with the Wintersteiger Safetronic binding tester. This device is also used to adjust bindings in specialist sports retailers. All tests were carried out with a uniform ski model (K2 Wayback 96, length 177 cm) and boot model (Scarpa Maestrale RS, sole length 314 mm).

Kind of a lame statement if you ask me....they say that the test "presents several inaccuracies" and "some aspects are completely wrong", but don't offer any info about where the inaccuracies lie or what aspects are totally wrong. Nor do they provide any data to back up their claims other than to say they are the best.

My thoughts exactly. I also looked on their homepage for test results but nothing to be found. I don't want to initiate a torch hunt though.

[skifishbum]

The difference in how our Montana machine tests pin bindings is it pushes to release
Vrs returning to center and is a separate program on the machine
The VT caliper makes a hell of a keg tap
Little else

[kid-kapow]

Agreed - ATK's statement is utterly nonsensical. I find it baffling that one of their engineers could not write a succint reply based on actual data, instead of "the referenced test is shit, our motto is build the best and safest binding, and since we sell a lot - we must be right". Not impressed.

ATKs build quality though - that is impressive. Gems, that are hopefully a bit more predictable than what the test seems to indicate.

[Heino77]

The difference in how our Montana machine tests pin bindings is it pushes to release
Vrs returning to center and is a separate program on the machine
The VT caliper makes a hell of a keg tap
Little else

I'm very interested in the mechanical point of view of binding test machines.
It seems to me that Montana simulates a real foot where as the Wintersteiger only applies outside pressure until the wings of alpine bindings release.
I can see the issue here with pin bindings since they don't work the same way.
It would be interesting to have the same bindings tested on a Montana to actually see the difference but just wishful thinking.
Maybe TGR funds such a comparison?

It appears to me that they also used different methods for pivotal release in backseat and high forward angle:

The lateral release value was then measured at least three times and the average value was calculated. The sole and the binding were made wet with each release. The test was carried out at TÜV Süd Product Service GmbH in Garching under the supervision of Thomas Maier. The test setup complies with the specifications of the DIN ISO 13992 standard, but the actual procedure was modified and therefore does not comply with the standard test. The appropriate steel support for adaptation to the test device was mounted on the test sole.

[CaliBrit]

I'm very interested in the mechanical point of view of binding test machines.
It seems to me that Montana simulates a real foot where as the Wintersteiger only applies outside pressure until the wings of alpine bindings release.
I can see the issue here with pin bindings since they don't work the same way.
It would be interesting to have the same bindings tested on a Montana to actually see the difference but just wishful thinking.
Maybe TGR funds such a comparison?

It appears to me that they also used different methods for pivotal release in backseat and high forward angle:

The lateral release value was then measured at least three times and the average value was calculated. The sole and the binding were made wet with each release. The test was carried out at TÜV Süd Product Service GmbH in Garching under the supervision of Thomas Maier. The test setup complies with the specifications of the DIN ISO 13992 standard, but the actual procedure was modified and therefore does not comply with the standard test. The appropriate steel support for adaptation to the test device was mounted on the test sole.

It would seem if the machine is not suitable to test tech toes then all the results are garbage right?

[macon]

It would seem if the machine is not suitable to test tech toes then all the results are garbage right?

I don't know much about these two test setups but if that's truly the case then yeah I'd personally have a hard time accepting this test as valid.

The fact that this took place in a TUV facility inspires confidence... but I also imagine a test setup would be different between alpine and pin bindings.

Then again, I don't read German so I can't actually understand what the hell actually happened in this test.

[stuckathuntermtn]

What are the 3 bars? Forward, twist,...? There are multiple tries in multiple directions, is that what it shows?

[galibier_numero_un]

You guys DO realize that the numbers on tech bindings are RVs and not DIN settings (with few exceptions), right?

... Thom