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  1. #1
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    Tele Skier Demoing Alpine Mounts - What to Look For

    Asking for a friend who went to the dark side about 30 years ago.

    Demoing a variety of Tele skis is not very easy these days, and I suggested that he demo some good alpine boots to expand the possibilities in skis. The problem of course, is translating the behavior of a ski from Alpine to Tele mount.

    My sense is that less traditional mounts would work well - not necessarily progressive/jibby skis, but perhaps a bit more forward than the most traditional of skis. OTOH, I've noted that @dschane loves Praxis Rx's and Down skis on his NTN rig - skis which tend to like to be driven from the front of the boot, so there's that.

    My secret hope is that once my buddy locks his heels back down, he'll wonder what he's been doing all these years, but that's a whole 'nuther story ;-)

    So, other than red, what say yee?

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
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  2. #2
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    Most tele skiers are used to a more rearward mount on the ski, as tele skis historically had more rearward mounting points and it's not uncommon to mount skis 1-2cm back from the recommended line when mounting for tele. That said it depends a lot on his style and what sort of gear he's using. You say NTN, but is he using a soft 3 buckle boot like the old Scarpa TX or a tall stiff one like the TX Comp? Is he using Freedom or Freeride bindings and with what springs and preload?

    Just like in alpine there are tele skiers that prefer a more upright, centered, neutral stance and others that prefer a more driving stance. Ski preferences will more or less follow that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  3. #3
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    Not that sure what you are getting at ^^ cuz when you demo an alpine ski you gotta fix yer heals

    when I telied I never used an actual tele ski they were all alpine skis,

    IME becuz you will have less control with a tele boot choose on the shorter side,

    ferinstance I would use a 185 in a fixed heel but I would choose 180 for tele
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  4. #4
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    I always just used skis that I would use alpine and never mounted back because of tele mount. That shits nonsense!

  5. #5
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    I don't remember tele boots being marked for boot center so I would just measure 1/2 way between the front n back of the shell, mark that as boot center and mount at ski center

    I only drink coffee while mounting fixed heels, cuz it takes long enough I will get too fucked up on booze to finish a precise job

    Drinking while mounting tele is no problem, cuz its only 4 screws and if I fucked it up ... how would I know ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  6. #6
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    Tele mounts have always been voodoo for me. I would usually mark lines for balance point, cord center +1 and recommended. Then I would look at the ski and see which "looked" the best or pick a new line somewhere in the range. In conclusion, tele skiers are hippies and shouldn't care. Mount point is going to be inconsequential until they figure out there really is a difference between telepine and actually having heels locked down.

  7. #7
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    Boot center at ski center, drill n mount the binding by one hole only/ clip the boot in/center the heel / drill the other 3 holes can all be done in < 2 beers

    It ^^works fine until you run out of dope and realize how much tele sucks
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    I always just used skis that I would use alpine and never mounted back because of tele mount. That shits nonsense!
    This.
    And I guess that I just don't know

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Not that sure what you are getting at ^^ cuz when you demo an alpine ski you gotta fix yer heals...
    That's my point. How would someone who knows how to turn an alpine mounted ski translate his observations (preferences) to a tele mount on the same ski?

    So, the question remains ... if he demos alpine, is there a meaningful way of determining if he'll like the same ski when mounted for tele? What I'm hearing is that he'll likely prefer the same ski, and it boils down to a question of mount point.

    ---

    One thought I had was that for the 10-15% of the times he turns parallel on teles, a centered type of ski would be more effective, since you can't drive the ski with your shins. Of course, the game changes when you drop a knee so all bets are off.

    It sounds like a crapshoot. Here he is - demoing some NTNs (22 Outlaws), TX Pros, and Rustler 10s:



    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 01-22-2020 at 05:46 PM.
    Galibier Design
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  10. #10
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    FWIW, I ski both tele and alpine (mostly tele until recently) and what I like for alpine mounted skis I like for tele. I guess the one caveat is if the ski feels a little too stiff on alpine, avoid it for tele.
    And I guess that I just don't know

  11. #11
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    You can drive a ski with your shins in parallel turns on tele gear, you do it by flexing your ankle. No you can't drive it as hard, yes you can drive from the shins.

    Nearly always, if you like a ski on alpine, you'll like a ski tele. The exception is if the ski is at the upper end of your ability to effectively drive it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  12. #12
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    The general rule these days is to just follow the alpine mount recommendation. Mounting a cm or two rearward helps keep the uphill ski tip from diving in powder, but these days skis are so fat and rockered that it usually doesn't matter.

    That being said there are limitations to how far forward you want to go. I ski the Deathwish at -7 when it has a reccomended mount of -5. I went with this because a) they are my powder skis and I don't want that tip diving b) because moment said some tele athletes like their deathwishes mounted that way, and c) because I ski the pb&js mounted at -4cm from center and they suck in powder. Not 30 minutes ago I caught the opening of some new terrain here in CB, but was on the pb&js because it is rocky AF out there and they are already beat to shit. They had been super fun all morning in the 3 inches of duff over chalk conditions, but when I dove in to week old powder, I stuffed the tips a few times and ended up doing a few tele rolls. The tip of the pb&j is super stiff so combined with the centered mount they don't pop up too well. Leaning back helps but then you can't ski for shit and your ACLs are in harms way. I like to drive my tips hard and I can't do that with the progressive mount on the pb&js. FWIW I mounted them at like -8cm in some old holes for a different binding as an experiment and they skied marginally better in soft snow but way worse everywhere else.

    I say mount on the line unless you have good reason to do otherwise, and anything further forward of -6cm might not be the best choice for all conditions.

  13. #13
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    Also I have never skied alpine so I don't know how the mounting point "translates." I just know what works for me on my tele skis.

  14. #14
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    Some boots(NTN, Black Diamond tele boots) have bc marked, otherwise, measure pin line to heel for 75mm and toe to heel for NTN. Mount same as alpine. Why the fuck people want BOF @ center is beyond me(that's the tele mount voodoo bullshit--dont buy into it)

  15. #15
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    Best guess for feels is to alpine with no shin pressure, like telelell
    But if he’s a deep knee bender he will get tip pressure when tele

    A good ski for alpine is a good ski for tele. For your style.

    As for mount the theory on moving back a cm or two is that your rear tele weight (ball of foot) is closer to boot center.
    Some move back many just mount boot center.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.”
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  16. #16
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    I can't pressure a ski as much on free heels so I just go the next size down

    I have small feet (all the foot binding eh) so my weight was always pretty close to boot center anyway

    I never followed any of them BOF threads cuz they sounded vaguely like trying to program my VCR
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #17
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    for me, unless there's some clear consensus by like-minded alpine or tele skiers, i mount (hand-measured) boot center on the ski's marked (directional) boot center line.

    For me, there is more adaptability in tele turns than alpine turns, in terms of body position. I like to make tele turns in similar speed, turn radius, and situations as i would making alpine turns (with tele bindings or alpine bindings), so i agree with most other posters about using the same ski for either alpine or tele bindings, with a few exceptions.

    -i would not want my tele daily driver to be the same ski that is 100% demanding all the time when skiing with a fixed heel. personally, i would fatigue pretty quickly if i was doing hot laps making tele turns on a ski like that.
    -if i was primarily using it for ski mountaineering on tele, i would not want too a demanding of a ski.
    -it seems that a lot of tele skiers do not like making tele turns on skis with a tail rocker. personally, i like the looseness of the turn with a rockered tail , but many complain about "wheelie" problems, which I believe is a body position problem.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    -i would not want my tele daily driver to be the same ski that is 100% demanding all the time when skiing with a fixed heel. personally, i would fatigue pretty quickly if i was doing hot laps making tele turns on a ski like that.
    -if i was primarily using it for ski mountaineering on tele, i would not want too a demanding of a ski.
    -it seems that a lot of tele skiers do not like making tele turns on skis with a tail rocker. personally, i like the looseness of the turn with a rockered tail , but many complain about "wheelie" problems, which I believe is a body position problem.
    I agree about not wanting too demanding of a ski. It's hard enough doing lunges all day without adding in some monster ski you have to crank around.

    Quasi related to that, I happen to love a bit of tail rocker on my tele skis, for the very reason I stated above. The tail rocker makes them release and slip out more easily, allowing you to ski a bigger stiffer ski without working quite so hard. People who don't like tail rocker on tele a) have never given it an honest try or b) suck at skiing. There is a time and place for every shape of ski so if you prefer flat tails that's fine, but the whole wheelie myth is really prevalent thought that I think prevents tele skiers from trying a lot of awesome skis.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I never followed any of them BOF threads cuz they sounded vaguely like trying to program my VCR
    Lolz

  19. #19
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    Your dick will look bigger
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  20. #20
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    Good luck with that.
    watch out for snakes

  21. #21
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    It's like a T-Tips timewarp nightmare. Ghost of Mitch appears soon.
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  22. #22
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    Dude should probably ski some of his favorite "tele" skis with an alpine mount and boot that most closely reflects his telemark boot and binding.
    Take that data and translate it back to what he likes in a ski for tele on demo day.

  23. #23
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    Great stuff guys. Thanks! I pointed my buddy to this thread.

    It's been so long since I freeheeled (Rottefella Red Chiles, Tua Tele Sauvage) that I had literally no clue.

    Powerful, active binders have clearly resulted convergence as far as ski choice is concerned. I suspected this was the case, but didn't realize how much.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    It's like a T-Tips timewarp nightmare. Ghost of Mitch appears soon.
    No shit! I just developed a fuckin concussion reading through this.

    I usually had a mirror image alpine and tele ski. I was an NTN guy mostly, although I did HH’s as well. Always went boot center on recommended alpine center. Learned to ski the ski, and was never really let down.
    Gravity. It's the law.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    ...The problem of course, is translating the behavior of a ski from Alpine to Tele mount.

    [...]

    My sense is that less traditional mounts would work well - not necessarily progressive/jibby skis, but perhaps a bit more forward than the most traditional of skis. [...]
    For the past decade I've been mounting more-or-less boot center (measured from pinline for 75mm or toe for NTN to heel edge) at recommended 0 or -1. That has worked well for me, I'm a directional aficionado, not too partial to jibby.

    More recently, I've noted that telepariah and hop have advocated a more forward mount, which seems counterintuitive to me, but they have good arguments. Honestly I dunno, it all depends on what feels good and works for the individual "style". If teleskiers weren't a buncha stoopid hippies we'd actually get with the program and use real boots and bindings in any case.

    Rotte NTN Freerides allow you to mount the plate and move the biding on a rail forward and back 1 cm which is nice if you're experimenting. If he's on NTN, have him mount boot center at 0 and shift it forward and back with the rail and see what he likes. Worst case scenario he can remount the plate.

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