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  1. #1
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    Dec 2017
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    Jumbo dead, good for Valemount?

    With the final nail in the coffin of Jumbo, I hope this is a catalyst for Valemount to finally get enough investment and attention to start development.

    Every year they push back their intended opening date by another year or two. And we've heard almost nothing since the 2018 announcement it would open in late 2020 or early 2021.

    I would hope the investors in Jumbo, designed by the same architect as Valemount will put their money towards the more realistic, feasible, supported project.

    Jumbo was such a colossal dumb idea to begin with that seemed to attract a lot of investors regardless.. Yet there seems to be an ongoing reluctance to investment in Valemount.

  2. #2
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    Cause it's a dumb idea.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulharin View Post
    With the final nail in the coffin of Jumbo, I hope this is a catalyst for Valemount to finally get enough investment and attention to start development.

    Every year they push back their intended opening date by another year or two. And we've heard almost nothing since the 2018 announcement it would open in late 2020 or early 2021.

    I would hope the investors in Jumbo, designed by the same architect as Valemount will put their money towards the more realistic, feasible, supported project.

    Jumbo was such a colossal dumb idea to begin with that seemed to attract a lot of investors regardless.. Yet there seems to be an ongoing reluctance to investment in Valemount.
    At this point, kinda looking like another pipe dream/white elephant but damn, I hope it happens. Sure do appreciate what our local little hills have to offer but, life is short....to have a real, big vert resort with lifts that ascend faster than jogging speed closer to home would be oh so very nice.
    Master of mediocrity.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    At this point, kinda looking like another pipe dream/white elephant but damn, I hope it happens. Sure do appreciate what our local little hills have to offer but, life is short....to have a real, big vert resort with lifts that ascend faster than jogging speed closer to home would be oh so very nice.
    Oh, I hear ya buddy. It's just that I fail to see a feasible business case for this therefore I think it's a dumb idea.
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
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  5. #5
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    Funny people calling it a dumb idea and a bad business case.... Everyone said the same thing about Revelstoke 15 years ago and how did that turn out? Hype, marketing, snow, vert, and terrain brings people from all over the world to Revy today. People drive from Edmonton, the eastern provinces and throughout the US... 2.5 hours from the nearest significant airport. In winter it's 5 hours from Calgary, 7 from Vancouver. Not to mention highway closures due to accidents and avalanche control multiple times a week. And yet people still drive here passed multiple major ski resorts.

    How much sense did RMR make? Valemount is not so different. People will drive from Edmonton, Kamloops and Prince George. Marmot Basin manages to do fine and they get barely get any snow and are unable to expand due to the Park.

    And how did Jumbo make more sense? Drive passed Panorama for an hour and a half into the middle of nowhere along a stretch of road that would have required more avy control then HWY 1 through Rogers Pass, and Eagles Pass combined.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulharin View Post
    Funny people calling it a dumb idea and a bad business case.... Everyone said the same thing about Revelstoke 15 years ago and how did that turn out?.
    The original developer went bankrupt.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shredhead View Post
    The original developer went bankrupt.
    Opening was in 2007/2008 which was also the start of a global economic recession. Real estate crashed in the years that followed.

  8. #8
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    Do you own a property in Valemount? The only people that think this will go bet on real estate and are still hoping they can sell. Sit on your investment rent to the Transmountain crews for two years and keep your hope going.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulharin View Post
    I would hope the investors in Jumbo, designed by the same architect as Valemount will put their money towards the more realistic, feasible, supported project.

    Jumbo was such a colossal dumb idea to begin with that seemed to attract a lot of investors regardless.
    Err. what investors in Jumbo? Last I heard about investors was he was trying to get Compagnie des Alps to buy in - then it all went VERY quiet. I'm pretty sure that what really killed Jumbo wasn't the opposition - it was the lack of any substantial investor willing to buy in. Why? Well the opposition didn't help but IMHO far more important is it would have been yet another interior BC resort a long way from anywhere with poor road access and hours from a major airport or conurbation. And as for the hyped summer skiing that hadn't a cat in hells chance of turning a profit in interior BC.

    Is Valemount a better investment? Perhaps marginally.

  10. #10
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    In my time on this planet, the world has more than doubled its population; I may live to see it reach 10billion. What used to be little community-owned/supported ski hills have turned into resorts catering to international clientele.
    When I was my daughter's age, I struggled to walk in my father's footsteps due to the amount of snow that fell almost every winter in the lower Fraser Valley. Now a good snowfall of 50cm once a decade shuts down the upper Fraser Valley that used to regularly see drifts and banks of snow that reached the roofs when I was a kid.
    Is Valemount a good investment? Maybe not within the next decade, but if population and climate trends continue, and local and international desire for skiing remains proportional, then VGDR will happen. Just down the road, ol' Mike does just fine, even if he counts his turns instead of runs these days. With the canfor Vavenby mill closed, he is now the single biggest employer in the N.Thompson valley.
    I would be happy to semi-retire in the Robson Valley in 10 or 15yrs although I'm more of a Dunster than Valemount kind of guy. Hwy 5 and 16 have their moments, but no avy issues like hwy 1. And the snow quality is superb. I'm not a trip report/photog kind of guy, but the conditions in the premier and surrounding ranges is amazing right now. Like can't sled access with 600cc and less than a 164" track kind of deep snow. It was a tad cold last week, but still warmer than the coldest day I ever worked in the woods!

    Jumbo was fucked from the start. But hey, they had a mayor and council!

  11. #11
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    Oberti is a vainglorious moron. There are countless mountains in the Selkirks and Monashees with the reliable snowfall, stable snowpack, and suitable geography (massive 100% skiable terrain accessible from minimal lift infrastructure) to create a ski resort which would would survive climate change longer and deliver a simple and affordable advanced powder skiing experience like no other, but Jumbo definitely wasn’t it, and neither is Valemount. Unfortunately land management in BC is hostage to powerful logging, real-estate development, industrial tourism, and now First Nations interests, and nobody that matters gives a fuck about recreation. I used to draw lines on maps and imagine this’d be my life’s work, but building trails and cabins is actually achievable.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCMtnHound View Post
    In my time on this planet, the world has more than doubled its population; I may live to see it reach 10billion. What used to be little community-owned/supported ski hills have turned into resorts catering to international clientele.
    When I was my daughter's age, I struggled to walk in my father's footsteps due to the amount of snow that fell almost every winter in the lower Fraser Valley. Now a good snowfall of 50cm once a decade shuts down the upper Fraser Valley that used to regularly see drifts and banks of snow that reached the roofs when I was a kid.
    Is Valemount a good investment? Maybe not within the next decade, but if population and climate trends continue, and local and international desire for skiing remains proportional, then VGDR will happen. Just down the road, ol' Mike does just fine, even if he counts his turns instead of runs these days. With the canfor Vavenby mill closed, he is now the single biggest employer in the N.Thompson valley.
    I would be happy to semi-retire in the Robson Valley in 10 or 15yrs although I'm more of a Dunster than Valemount kind of guy. Hwy 5 and 16 have their moments, but no avy issues like hwy 1. And the snow quality is superb. I'm not a trip report/photog kind of guy, but the conditions in the premier and surrounding ranges is amazing right now. Like can't sled access with 600cc and less than a 164" track kind of deep snow. It was a tad cold last week, but still warmer than the coldest day I ever worked in the woods!

    Jumbo was fucked from the start. But hey, they had a mayor and council!
    Good points. I'll add a few more kinda outta the box thinking, far fetched, throwing shit at a wall and see what sticks ideas for a more long term future viability of Valemount.

    1. The skiers' exoskeleton emergence on the scene in 'x' amount of years, bumps the capability of those with cash to extend their day's length of skiing time, amount of days skiing per seasons and adds years if not decades to their skiing life. This may bump that demographic of international clientele with money/does travel overseas to ski and may opt for a resort like Valemount if the entire thing is built to a Whistler standard and has that cachet.

    2. What about, for the medium/longer term, tapping into the burgeoning/booming Chinese ski market? Seems like the growth industry has some legs for the short term at least...will the growth stick or will it fizzle? In any case, if the interest/growth sticks and maintains the present trajectory, one can imagine they eventually might become travelers interested in seeking new experiences abroad...what about planting a seed now...seeking a joint partnership ownership in developing the resort with some Chinese investors and marketing the project to the present gen of Chinese skiers as their premiere exclusive travel destination abroad? Direct flights to the new Dunster International airport.
    Master of mediocrity.

  13. #13
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    The mass market Chinese skier would have close to zero interest in going to Valemount. Guaranteed

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    The mass market Chinese skier would have close to zero interest in going to Valemount. Guaranteed
    needs more canada goose stores?


  15. #15
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    Heh. There are already busloads of asian (and middle east) tourists going by every day traveling between Edmonton to Vancouver, stopping in places like Jasper and Wells Gray. Would they fork out the lift and hotel price to take a gondi ride to the top of Mount Sir Wilfrid Laurier for a selfie? And a few out of the bunch fork out a few dollars more to ski back down? The numbers visiting have increased every year, and many are investing in property along the way. I do not see that trend slowing. 10billion fucking people by 2050. And I find this place crowded enough. A selfish part of me wishes that development in these areas does not occur, but full-time residents are decreasing, and part time recreationalists and retirees are increasing.
    VGDR is supported by local/prov/fed govt, 1st Nations, forestry and mining is slow in the area. The only physical impediment IMO is secure and stable hydro power supply. And investor dollars.

  16. #16
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    Jumbo dead, good for Valemount?

    Delete post. Threadjack
    Last edited by dufferdan; 01-20-2020 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Delete post. Threadjack
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    The mass market Chinese skier would have close to zero interest in going to Valemount. Guaranteed
    thread drift but curious... Lee, what's your opinion on the Chinese domestic ski industry boom/growth? Do you think it's a fad or is it real for the long term?
    Master of mediocrity.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    thread drift but curious... Lee, what's your opinion on the Chinese domestic ski industry boom/growth? Do you think it's a fad or is it real for the long term?
    My people are interested in brand names, dim sum and money-laundering. The domestic Chinese ski industry is a short - term fad. There is and will be zero staying power in this.

    But of course gwei lo tourism talking heads can babble on all they want about the growing Chinese market. It will take targeted sophistication to capture that. Canada's tourism marketing "professionals" don't have that. The Swiss will probably win whatever Chinese skiing consumers that actually are sticky and long-term

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    My people are interested in brand names, dim sum and money-laundering. The domestic Chinese ski industry is a short - term fad. There is and will be zero staying power in this.

    But of course gwei lo tourism talking heads can babble on all they want about the growing Chinese market. It will take targeted sophistication to capture that. Canada's tourism marketing "professionals" don't have that. The Swiss will probably win whatever Chinese skiing consumers that actually are sticky and long-term
    Thanks Lee. Appreciate the credible opinion.
    Master of mediocrity.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulharin View Post
    Funny people calling it a dumb idea and a bad business case.... Everyone said the same thing about Revelstoke 15 years ago and how did that turn out? Hype, marketing, snow, vert, and terrain brings people from all over the world to Revy today. People drive from Edmonton, the eastern provinces and throughout the US... 2.5 hours from the nearest significant airport. In winter it's 5 hours from Calgary, 7 from Vancouver. Not to mention highway closures due to accidents and avalanche control multiple times a week. And yet people still drive here passed multiple major ski resorts.

    How much sense did RMR make? Valemount is not so different. People will drive from Edmonton, Kamloops and Prince George. Marmot Basin manages to do fine and they get barely get any snow and are unable to expand due to the Park.

    And how did Jumbo make more sense? Drive passed Panorama for an hour and a half into the middle of nowhere along a stretch of road that would have required more avy control then HWY 1 through Rogers Pass, and Eagles Pass combined.
    don't get me wrong Revy is great but has it made actual money from skiing yet? seems to be a lot of passholders and then some tourists on any given day
    what's orange and looks good on hippies?

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    If I had a dollar for every time capitalism was blamed for problems caused by the government I'd be a rich fat film maker in a baseball hat.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    My people are interested in brand names, dim sum and money-laundering. The domestic Chinese ski industry is a short - term fad. There is and will be zero staying power in this.

    But of course gwei lo tourism talking heads can babble on all they want about the growing Chinese market. It will take targeted sophistication to capture that. Canada's tourism marketing "professionals" don't have that. The Swiss will probably win whatever Chinese skiing consumers that actually are sticky and long-term
    This , they just want to take some selfie's and go fo dim sum
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #22
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    A friend of mine in Dunster tells me land is being aquired by the Guggehiem foundation, she doesn't know why

    Valemont had some awesome MTN biking, a good craft brew and food truck definitely check it out

    Hung out for 6days at Robson Valley Music fest in Dunster, good times .

    I been running around that area for the last 25yars and if there is any way to support a ski area ... I can't see it
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #23
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    [QUOTE=XXX-er;5868116]A friend of mine in Dunster tells me land is being aquired by the Guggehiem foundation, she doesn't know why

    Valemont had some awesome MTN biking, a good craft brew and food truck definitely check it out

    Hung out for 6days at Robson Valley Music fest in Dunster, good times .

    I been running around that area for the last 25yars and if there is any way to support a ski area ... I can't see it[/QUOTE

    Large parcel land acquisition is nothing new, especially in temperate climates with secure water supply. Those same billionaires have been trying to purchase huge tracts of crown land in BC for years, thankfully with very limited success - we can largely thank unresolved 1st Nations treaty processes for that. Politicians couldn't give a shit about the lock-up of remote rural farmland as long as the tax is paid. https://thetyee.ca/News/2014/07/09/P...mland-Edition/

  24. #24
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    I used to fix the bank in McBride and the admin btold me there are the normal folks, the not so normals and also menonites so there is and has always been a rich history of phreaks around Dunster also the loan officer told us it was one of the most profitable branches in Canada.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  25. #25
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    Worst part of the new Jumbo is it will be non motorized since the Nature conservancy is involved.
    Bye bye ski touring, and I wonder what will happen with RK heli? I am guessing First Nations will push them out too.
    Would have been better off with JGR IMO.


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