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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by waxman View Post
    don't get me wrong Revy is great but has it made actual money from skiing yet? seems to be a lot of passholders and then some tourists on any given day
    The accounts are a closed book so your guess is as good as mine or anyone else who isn't management. That said, the Gagliardis are investing in Squamish and Grouse so they seem to think they can make money from ski areas.

    Whether that has any relevance to another speculative Oberti dream in search of an investor with very deep pockets is moot.

  2. #27
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    I'm pretty sure the Gaglardis are making money off RMR. If they aren't, then they see it as a good place to spend corporate money for tax avoidance purposes, because they're building a major new hotel here this summer. I think the ski hill is doing fine, but the real money will be in pulling people off the Trans-Canada Highway in summer. There are thousands of tourists driving by Revelstoke every day, so getting them to come in and spend $70 CDN to go up the gondola, ride the coaster, and do the ropes course is where they'll make big bucks. Get them into the restaurant after and coax them into the new hotel and you've got gravy on top. Revelstoke is still mostly an overnight destination for road trippers in the summer, but with Banff and Whistler getting busier and busier and the town maturing as a tourist destination, that will change.

    Regarding Valemount, it makes far more sense than Jumbo, mainly because it's right off a major highway and close to Jasper. As a summer sightseeing option, a gondola that gets you good views of the surrounding mountains and glaciers makes sense. As a winter destination, it's no harder to get to than Revy, but it lacks serious infrastructure to support a destination resort. Revelstoke a decade ago was pretty quiet, but it had far more in terms of hotels and restaurants than Valemount. Revy is also a much more charming town than Valemount, which has helped a lot in its development.

  3. #28
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    Not that it is a good idea, but doesn't this just mean that future development will be controlled by the first nations band(s)
    in the area?

    What if they deem it a worthwhile risk and apply to go ahead?
    I can't see the courts not letting them.

    There are lots of cases where the 'First Nations determination' succeeds all other roadblocks,
    even only as a matter of restoring historical wrongs.

    Just because native groups oppose a venture on environmental, spiritual, or territorial rights,
    doesn't mean that money won't talk. Just look at the bands opposing, and bands wanting, the pipelines.
    [KURTZ] Hinterstoisser, you heavy bastard.
    [HINTERSTOISSER] You need to do more push-ups, Kurtz.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Not that it is a good idea, but doesn't this just mean that future development will be controlled by the first nations band(s)
    in the area?

    What if they deem it a worthwhile risk and apply to go ahead?
    I can't see the courts not letting them.

    There are lots of cases where the 'First Nations determination' succeeds all other roadblocks,
    even only as a matter of restoring historical wrongs.

    Just because native groups oppose a venture on environmental, spiritual, or territorial rights,
    doesn't mean that money won't talk. Just look at the bands opposing, and bands wanting, the pipelines.
    The FN have argued this is sacred ground, home of the grizzly bear spirit. It would be a complete reverse of their argument to stop the development by JGR.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pano-dude View Post
    Worst part of the new Jumbo is it will be non motorized since the Nature conservancy is involved.
    Bye bye ski touring, and I wonder what will happen with RK heli? I am guessing First Nations will push them out too.
    Would have been better off with JGR IMO.


    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    From the press releases: “initial ideas for the protected area don’t include changes in existing access to the area, but the Ktunaxa don’t want to see any permanent housing built and want to ensure that enough land is protected to maintain undisturbed and uninterrupted wildlife corridors”.

    As I understand it the Ktnuaxa simply used other people’s money to purchase the essentially worthless Jumbo tenure for cheap. That tenure remains subordinate to all pre-existing tenures (Forestry, mining, heli-skiing, and perhaps commercial snowmobile touring), and won’t necessarily limit public access. Just no ski resort development.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pano-dude View Post
    The FN have argued this is sacred ground, home of the grizzly bear spirit. It would be a complete reverse of their argument to stop the development by JGR.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Agreed. It would be a complete reversal.
    So I wouldn't expect something like that soon.
    In a few years ... unexpected regional job losses and interested investors.
    The funds could be used by the band(s) for their conservation efforts.
    Surely the Spirits won't mind recreational funds to advance Grizzly populations in the wider area!
    I don't care for the politics of it all, but the area is probably going to be 'protected' like much of BC, and that doesn't mean much probably.
    Color me skeptical about 'environmental' motivations.
    [KURTZ] Hinterstoisser, you heavy bastard.
    [HINTERSTOISSER] You need to do more push-ups, Kurtz.

  7. #32
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    Word on the street is RMR became profitable in 2014/2015 ... that season was a noticeable increase in visitors and that trend continued in the years that followed. That was also an abysmal snow season for the pacific northwest and RMR was one of the few mountains that was doing alright. The mountain coaster and mountain biking have also brought a lot more summer visitors then they had originally anticipated. They built a new beginner lift last year and have another major lift planned for this year or next.

    Real estate values in town have also had a steady increase of 10-15% a year since 14/15.. Real estate spiked when the resort opened but the recession tanked that in the years that followed.

    Valemount will be more sheltered from the effects of climate change due to higher elevation, further north, and one range further inland... equivalent of the Purcells but further North I guess? If Valemount is skunked due to the effects of climate change then every resort in the selkirks, monashees, purcells or coastal range would be also be dead by then.

    The garabaldi ski resort project though? Prolly not such a great idea longterm.

  8. #33
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    the FN are gona argue over pretty much any ground in BC

    because back in the late 1800's whitey refused to pay land claims

    and now its really complicated/too expensive

    a good example of why you should pay your bills
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulharin View Post
    Valemount will be more sheltered from the effects of climate change due to higher elevation, further north, and one range further inland... equivalent of the Purcells but further North I guess? If Valemount is skunked due to the effects of climate change then every resort in the selkirks, monashees, purcells or coastal range would be also be dead by then.
    If comparing snow and geography, Blue River is like Revelstoke, Valemount is Golden, with the VGDR being a resort located just over on the lee side of Rogers Pass. In the 11yrs I've been working/playing in the N.Thompson valley, most years average above 90% of the expected 'normal' snowpack, more consistent than even the Upper Columbia basin. Mike Wiegele chose the area for his heliski investment 50yrs ago for a reason. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/en...ecast/2019.pdf

    Local 1st Nations is right on board with VGDR. As part of the reconcilliation/consultation, they got a historic settlement repatriated at Tete Juane Cache, and a few hectares of proposed resort village development land. They are in partnership with VARDA (local recreation development association) for most of the bike trails in Valemount.

  10. #35
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    "The company that held the development permits, Glacier Resorts, received an undisclosed payout — at least partly from federal funds — in exchange for relinquishing its interests. The deal was negotiated with the help of the Nature Conservancy of Canada."
    ~news
    [KURTZ] Hinterstoisser, you heavy bastard.
    [HINTERSTOISSER] You need to do more push-ups, Kurtz.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCMtnHound View Post
    If comparing snow and geography, Blue River is like Revelstoke..........
    thread drift but curious....any word on what happened/is happening/what will happen with Weigele's Saddle Mountain project? Back in '95ish when I worked there, there seemed to be big plans. Saw some cut runs on my drives through there over the years, but never investigated further. Was kinda thinkin' he's using it as 'in the back pocket' storm day heliskiing or something?
    Master of mediocrity.

  12. #37
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    A kamloops guy who moved here told me they used to cut ski runs in blue river for the storm days,

    the heli would drop a crew with saws at mid mountain and another one at the top
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    thread drift but curious....any word on what happened/is happening/what will happen with Weigele's Saddle Mountain project? Back in '95ish when I worked there, there seemed to be big plans. Saw some cut runs on my drives through there over the years, but never investigated further. Was kinda thinkin' he's using it as 'in the back pocket' storm day heliskiing or something?
    mike went crazy and forgot about it?

    and his wife stopped ski racing as much (she used it for gate training a few times)


  14. #39
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    The 8 Peaks proposal is still alive, and Mike was ramping it up when the VGDR master plan was approved, but it has quieted down a bit again. The Saddle Mtn Controlled Rec Area is in place, but development is slow with respect to any lift or real estate development. They had a logger up there in 2018 cutting a few new runs, and ya, they currently use the mountain for cat and heli skiing when conditions are poor for flying and avy. The access across the river remains an issue - the existing Smoke Cr FSR isn’t the greatest for significant development, but a new bridge across the N.Thompson at Blue River is a big project. When that gets resolved/finalized, then the Saddle development will start in earnest, but the dollars don’t make sense yet I think.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    mike went crazy and forgot about it?
    I won’t speculate to the stability of his thought process, but I can guarantee that his memory is still as sharp as ever.

  16. #41
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    Info on Saddle for anyone like myself that had never heard of it.

    https://www.wiegele.com/sites/defaul...e_mountain.pdf

  17. #42
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    I would love more ski hills anywhere and everywhere BUT......(and I state the following in the name of realism and not cynicism) ... there's no way this Valemount thing ever gets off the ground. No way. And the conversation doesn't even need to go as far as First nations or any other considerations. The simple fact of the matter is that there are no skiers. Not in Valemount, not any where near Valemount, not even in the world as a whole to justify a development of this scale. Period.

  18. #43
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    Delete this goddamn thread already. WTF, eat shit and die to whoever started it.

    You are going to singlehandedly ruin that area with this fucking thread, you worthless piece of shit.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    Info on Saddle for anyone like myself that had never heard of it.

    https://www.wiegele.com/sites/defaul...e_mountain.pdf
    Good linkage. Thx. I had heard of the idea but was never aware of it's exact nature.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angle Parking View Post
    I would love more ski hills anywhere and everywhere BUT......(and I state the following in the name of realism and not cynicism) ... there's no way this Valemount thing ever gets off the ground. No way. And the conversation doesn't even need to go as far as First nations or any other considerations. The simple fact of the matter is that there are no skiers. Not in Valemount, not any where near Valemount, not even in the world as a whole to justify a development of this scale. Period.
    I feel the same way about it. It's been almost 10 years since I lived in PG, but from my time in that area, lots of driving back and forth to Jasper and beyond on Hwy-16, I just don't see it making commercial sense. Revelstoke at least has regional population, is on Canada's primary highway, is accessible inside a day from Calgary/Vancouver (large cities with large skiing populations) etc. etc. It's an extra 60-90 minutes to Valemount from Edmonton vs. Banff on much worse roads.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angle Parking View Post
    I would love more ski hills anywhere and everywhere BUT......(and I state the following in the name of realism and not cynicism) ... there's no way this Valemount thing ever gets off the ground. No way. And the conversation doesn't even need to go as far as First nations or any other considerations. The simple fact of the matter is that there are no skiers. Not in Valemount, not any where near Valemount, not even in the world as a whole to justify a development of this scale. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by gramboh View Post
    I feel the same way about it. It's been almost 10 years since I lived in PG, but from my time in that area, lots of driving back and forth to Jasper and beyond on Hwy-16, I just don't see it making commercial sense. Revelstoke at least has regional population, is on Canada's primary highway, is accessible inside a day from Calgary/Vancouver (large cities with large skiing populations) etc. etc. It's an extra 60-90 minutes to Valemount from Edmonton vs. Banff on much worse roads.
    Yeah absolutely. The OP is on glue. Thanks for posting this guys, saved me a shit ton of key strokes. I'll only add that in accessing this proposed resort from fucking anywhere, you drive by other decent ski areas (scads of them coming from Vancouver, shit tons from Calgary, and Jasper from Edmonton (which can hardly be described as having a large ski population anyway).

    I know swissiphic wants it to happen (for his own greedy purposes of skiing big summer lines that aren't a 6 hour approach) but he also at least sees the absolute madness in attempting a construct a large (financially viable) ski resort there. I think this Kulharin dude is just Oberti's alias here.
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
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    This is OUR mountain - come join us!

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Delete this goddamn thread already. WTF, eat shit and die to whoever started it.

    You are going to singlehandedly ruin that area with this fucking thread, you worthless piece of shit.
    Too late, family just cashed out in Whistler and Canmore and used the profits to buy up the rest of the undeveloped land in Valemount and Blue River. Snooze you loose.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiitsbetter View Post
    Too late, family just cashed out in Whistler and Canmore and used the profits to buy up the rest of the undeveloped land in Valemount and Blue River. Snooze you loose.
    That's right, and as far as the Valemount project is concerned, everyone who has in any way invested in this venture is going to lose, big time.

  24. #49
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    whats to the north ... nothing

    it ain't in the middle of nowhere but you can see nowhere from thar
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  25. #50
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    I look at it this way: if sufficient fools invest in the venture, I get another ski resort option closer to home than Revy, and better overall snow potential than Sun Peaks. I may have to share the goods with a few other people.
    If no one invests and nothing gets built, I still get to enjoy the N.Thompson and area via a sled, with far fewer other backcountry users.

    Win/Win for me <shrug>

    But with traditional forestry manufacturing plants centralizing to the larger centres ('loops & PG), the local economy should could use a shot in the arm from something. Small scale or specialized recreation like individual huts/guides or high end Wiegele do very little to sustain the local communities. Issue isn't unique to this valley though.

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