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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    So what made the East Wall safe just 24 hours later?
    For starters, they weren't shooting a cannon at it any more.
    Although I would guess it had more to do with the fact that they had already done control work and had gotten everything to slide they could. The shot that caused 'the stain' wasn't the only shot.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskeytangofoxtr0t View Post
    Silver Mountain ....
    visit us sometime



    .
    He probably needs a new car.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    So what made the East Wall safe just 24 hours later?

    That's a heavy responsibility to call all clear before they allow us out there.
    98765

    More than 1,000 acres plus our two, main terrain parks are now open. All of The Beavers and Montezuma Bowl are ready for you, as are the Treeline and High Divide terrain parks. The only areas we are waiting on are the East Wall and The Steep Gullies – all of which require hiking. Keep an eye on The Steep Gullies; ski patrol has been hard at work in that terrain and it’s getting close.

  4. #29
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    I recall 5 or so years ago, Feuz Bowl at Kicking Horse went to ground mid season. They were doing some avalanche work nearby and an in bounds bowl that gets totally skier compacted to the point of being moguled to sh*t went to ground! Perhaps someone from the Canadian Rockies thread can fill in the essential details as I am surely not doing the story justice. But it was a serious WTF moment in my mind. Really weird event.

  5. #30
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angle Parking View Post
    I recall 5 or so years ago, Feuz Bowl at Kicking Horse went to ground mid season. They were doing some avalanche work nearby and an in bounds bowl that gets totally skier compacted to the point of being moguled to sh*t went to ground! Perhaps someone from the Canadian Rockies thread can fill in the essential details as I am surely not doing the story justice. But it was a serious WTF moment in my mind. Really weird event.
    2017. This video goes way into it.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  7. #32
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    ^^^ yeah, that's the one. Weird and unnerving.

  8. #33
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    Aug 2006
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    Like ~2006, a bump run at snowbird slid at night (full moon) and the bed surface was a mogul field.

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Oh, and you do, motherfucker?
    Yep.

    "What's an airbag?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  10. #35
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    Dec 2004
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    Do we really need to do this? Ya can't just have a discussion?
    Ooof!

  11. #36
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    Toothless prick.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Toothless
    I have met Bunion and he has superior dentition.

  13. #38
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    I meant the toothless prick Brit. Bunion is American, he has benefitted from fluoridation and proper dental care most of his life.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  14. #39
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    Dec 2008
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    Salida, CO
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    remember when a certain patroller at Loveland strayed under a rope and went for a ride taking out a bunch of cars and the bus that transported skiers to the valley? We had a sign up in patrol to name the new run. My fav was the brown stain in Pip's s shorts : )

  15. #40
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    Jan 2008
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    To Bunion and anyone else who might be knowledgeable--is there nationwide discussion and research on in bounds avalanche control, do resorts talk to each other about it, or is practice primarily determined by each area's particular experience?

  16. #41
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    May 2011
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    No one can say for sure how it translates to post control slides inbounds, but the snowpack in California has absolutely changed and become less stable / reliable in recent years due to changes in climate / weather. A few years ago we had three separate buried hoar layers in the span of a month, which was more than the previous decade combined or something like that. It was no longer a maritime snowpack and more like Colorado. And PWL's have happened several more times since then when it used to be a rare occurrence. Not that it was ever smart policy for backcountry travel, but the concept of the "Tahoe 24 or 48" is officially over, it seems.

    Now, in the case of the slide at Alpine yesterday that wasn't a buried hoar layer but a shitty rain crust. That has always happened in Tahoe although it's probably a safe bet that the frequency of those events has increased in recent years, especially at higher elevations (like at a ski resort). A patroller was killed during control work at Alpine back in 2012 (?) and it was because a ridgeline ripped bigger and higher than they'd ever seen before so his island of safety as per standard procedure was exposed. Possibly an outlier, or possibly a sign of things changing... hard to say.

  17. #42
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    Social media makes it a lot harder for resorts to keep information about inbounds slides under wraps, which is a major contributing factor, IMHO. But I also believe that there is more pressure to(and in turn, more resorts caving to the pressure) to open terrain ASAP instead of giving things a couple of days, and likely a couple rounds of control routes being run through it before they drop the rope. The culture of instant gratification reaps what it sows.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    To Bunion and anyone else who might be knowledgeable--is there nationwide discussion and research on in bounds avalanche control, do resorts talk to each other about it, or is practice primarily determined by each area's particular experience?
    There is a lot of cross pollination through ski patrol exchanges and regional avalanche workshops. The ski areas located near me get together every fall (Big Sky, BB, Y/C & usually Red Lodge, Disco and Teton Pass) for a day of continuing education and discussions. There is the NAF National Avalanche Foundation http://www.avalancheschool.org/ that attempts to bring some standardized training to all ski areas that engage in avalanche mitigation. There are Professional seminars available and the more recent split between Rec and Pro education also attempts to bring areas together.

    After the explosives accident at Big Sky in 96 the NSAA got a board together composed of a lot of very experienced patrollers to formulate an explosives handling SOP.

    With all that said, most ski area programs are a product of their in house experiences.

    In my experiences at 5 different Class-A areas I saw relatively little pressure from management above the patrol to "get terrain open". I did see it once in 86 at Park City during a bad el Nino cycle when the SS Dir. held his ground and kept Thaynes Canyon closed for 3 days during a huge precip. event. In the end the skies cleared, he did a route on the ridge line between Thaynes and White Pine and took out the power line that ran up the canyon. He made the right call.

    Most pressure to "Get Terrain Open" is internal. Patrols are geared toward that goal and that is how they are able to justify their budgets and reason for being. I have noticed this year that the area I recreational ski at is being a lot more conservative about terrain openings. They have had a lot of deep slab activity on a just above the ground layer of ice from rain events in late October/early November and the overall snow pack structure is just plain shitty. I appreciate their approach.

    What makes it difficult for the patrols is that it is much safer to get on new snow ASAP, get the terrain open and skied than it is to sit on it an let it settle etc. It isn't about "instant gratification", no matter what some experts may think.
    Ooof!

  19. #44
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    May 2006
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    west tetons
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    Here's an article on the topic of In-bounds avalanches that we had in The Avalanche Review 10 years ago:Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    There is a lot of cross pollination through ski patrol exchanges and regional avalanche workshops. The ski areas located near me get together every fall (Big Sky, BB, Y/C & usually Red Lodge, Disco and Teton Pass) for a day of continuing education and discussions. There is the NAF National Avalanche Foundation http://www.avalancheschool.org/ that attempts to bring some standardized training to all ski areas that engage in avalanche mitigation. There are Professional seminars available and the more recent split between Rec and Pro education also attempts to bring areas together.

    After the explosives accident at Big Sky in 96 the NSAA got a board together composed of a lot of very experienced patrollers to formulate an explosives handling SOP.

    With all that said, most ski area programs are a product of their in house experiences.

    In my experiences at 5 different Class-A areas I saw relatively little pressure from management above the patrol to "get terrain open". I did see it once in 86 at Park City during a bad el Nino cycle when the SS Dir. held his ground and kept Thaynes Canyon closed for 3 days during a huge precip. event. In the end the skies cleared, he did a route on the ridge line between Thaynes and White Pine and took out the power line that ran up the canyon. He made the right call.

    Most pressure to "Get Terrain Open" is internal. Patrols are geared toward that goal and that is how they are able to justify their budgets and reason for being. I have noticed this year that the area I recreational ski at is being a lot more conservative about terrain openings. They have had a lot of deep slab activity on a just above the ground layer of ice from rain events in late October/early November and the overall snow pack structure is just plain shitty. I appreciate their approach.

    What makes it difficult for the patrols is that it is much safer to get on new snow ASAP, get the terrain open and skied than it is to sit on it an let it settle etc. It isn't about "instant gratification", no matter what some experts may think.
    Thanks for the post.
    My kids and I all bought Erika Pankow Scholarship Foundation Big Sky T shirts when we were there. Sad story. (Aren't they all.)

    There was an article in Powder years ago (well after the 93 slide) about snow safety at Alta and Alpine (the picture of patrollers on top of Beaver with an enormous cornice is a classic). There is a scene described when the mountain manager comes into the patrol shack, looks at the list of shots planned for the morning and tells the patrol director that it was too much--as in spending too much on explosives.. I'm something like that is rare, and maybe they were pulling the reporter's leg.

  21. #46
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    PRB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post

    What makes it difficult for the patrols is that it is much safer to get on new snow ASAP, get the terrain open and skied than it is to sit on it an let it settle etc. It isn't about "instant gratification", no matter what some experts may think.
    Really interesting, hadn't thought about that.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  22. #47
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    Jan 2008
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    I was skiing at Squaw on a storm day when they were having trouble getting KT controlled. The finally decided not to open it because it had taken too long since they bombed their first routes without skiers on them. They explained that once they get skiers on a slope that keeps the slope stable even if the snow keeps coming down. (Not always--the guy who was killed near the top of Poulsen's a few years ago was skiing there near the end of a storm day and a lot of people had skied that slope all day.)

  23. #48
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    Jun 2008
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    Big Sky
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    Is it just me, or are we seeing more inbound avalanches?

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    They explained that once they get skiers on a slope that keeps the slope stable even if the snow keeps coming down.)
    During storms in progress skier traffic can keep new snow hazards from forming but thatís not necessarily the case with persistent instabilities deeper in the snowpack.


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  24. #49
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    Sandy
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    Quote Originally Posted by regct View Post
    During storms in progress skier traffic can keep new snow hazards from forming but thatís not necessarily the case with persistent instabilities deeper in the snowpack.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    And by getting terrain open early in the season and/or boot/ski packing, persistant instabilities can be mitigated or prevented.

  25. #50
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    Dec 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    I meant the toothless prick Brit. Bunion is American, he has benefitted from fluoridation and proper dental care most of his life.
    Where's your in desperate need of 3rd world dental surgery tourism research thread when we need it? Clown.

    Skiing was fun today.

    You clean the fridge? Shave your legs? Read up on avalanches in latest edition of conde nast travel magazine?



    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

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