Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    United States of Aburdistan
    Posts
    7,281

    Pivots vs Salomon Bindings

    Bought a pair of used skis with Pivots which I’ve never owned. I’m a Super Serious Salomon Sally, love them, so I’m wondering if DIN settings are equivalent across the two. I’m being ultra nerdy I know but I skied Tyrolia bindings for a few years and those damn things popped off when I sneezed too hard. I really had to crank them because I sneeze a lot, and they still popped off anyways.

    Pivots are same-same as Salomon’s or ??

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    on the banks of Fish Creek
    Posts
    7,513
    Yer gonna die....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    8,319
    I was always able to set Looks a bit lower than Salomons.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    17,891
    DIN release torque should be the same across all brands. Assuming your issue with the Tyrolias were pre-releases, that's more of an elastic travel issue. More is better and pivots have lots. FWIW I've been a pivot fanboi (mostly FKS 180, FKS 150, and Look ZR18) for over 15 years and never come out when I shouldn't but do when I should. Usually run them between 10 and 11.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Alta
    Posts
    2,931
    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    I was always able to set Looks a bit lower than Salomons.
    Same ime. New salmons, sth2 style heel I have to run higher. They heel release very easily. I’ve had great luck with din15-18 tyrolia bindings. My second favorite after pivots. Haven’t tried the newer model tyrolias but reviews are good. Back in the day I liked old Salomons. But gave up on them due to the toe piece invariably loosening and the heel wobble


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    United States of Aburdistan
    Posts
    7,281
    Thanks, that helps. Maybe I’ll become a fanboy too. I’ve had two painful low-tide/hardpack pre-releases on my Salomon’s this year, I need a confidence boost.

    And M2711c, I know. you will too at some point.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    13,844
    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    I was always able to set Looks a bit lower than Salomons.
    X3. I also tend to run my solly's higher in the heel than the toe, due to the aforementioned heel prerelease. I've been running looks the same front and rear.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Winthrop, WA.
    Posts
    1,592
    Same here on the heel release. With Sally/Tyrolia they seem to release somewhere in the range of really inconvenient and hazardous......resulting in things like a head first slide for life down icy bumps in Carona Bowl at Stevens a couple years ago. Anymore I'm only on binders with dildo heels; Pivot, SPX, Royal family. Haven't had the dread heel release problem with those and each has it's good points and quirks. As far as DIN goes, I'm comfortable running Looks a full 3+ points lower than Sally/Tryolia in the heel and knowing I'll still get better retention. Look toes also rock. Surprised the SPX doesn't get more love around here, good clamps.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    OR
    Posts
    1,937
    In the minority on the boards, but slight edge to the Salomon STHs/STH2/916s for me over Pivots and Tyrolia AAA

    I ski them all at the same din

    Them 3 of my trusted bindings. They all work fine when adjusted correctly, I just think Pivot brake mechs are underwhelming, a touch harder to set fwd pressure correctly as the tab/line is not the way to do it, and the dild is a bit more fussy to get on off in certain scenarios. I'd happily buy a set of skis with any of the three, but the pivots carry a cool factor price premium IMO that I still can't discern on snow i.e. the elastic travel. I also don't like how tyrolias brakes attach through to the ski instead of the binding, I have broken a metal AFD, plus another set I got second hand had a stripped toe height adj, but things happen and it a solid binding overall. I've never pre-released in Sallys STHs/916s...ever so interesting to hear the JSA reports above

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,887
    Interesting that the consensus so far has been heel pre-release issues are more common on Sally > Look. For me, the only truly ridiculous heel pre-release I've ever had has been with the dildo heeled Axial 2 / SPX 12. Happened twice in the same day landing off the same mini-kicker. Never had a surprise with the Wardens (STH2 heel), or with my Tyrolia Peak 15s for that matter (no screw-through brakes on those, Klauss, and lots of metal).

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    751
    Same experience as Mattig - have had prereleases on Axial 2, but love all the Sallys I’ve skied. Fwiw, I’m small and am generally run my din at 8, so that may impact my experience

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    8,319
    I'll add that when I was younger and skied at my limit more frequently Pivots were clearly better for me. These days my technique is better and ski more smoothly/conservatively and the extra costs of Pivots, along with the lack of adjustment, isn't worth it.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
    Posts
    13,234
    I manage to ski pretty hard and stay in pins
    In and outta bounds
    But I have a trained professional set my gear
    The same one that uses a high dollar binding function test to tell you they almost all test the same when properly adjusted
    Dildos suck but they always test well
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    2,903
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    X3. I also tend to run my solly's higher in the heel than the toe, due to the aforementioned heel prerelease. I've been running looks the same front and rear.
    Was a Sally user for 10 years. Then I got some Pivots.

    I will not be buying any Sallies again...

    Early season, I run my Pivots at 11, and Salomons at 13. Later in the season, bump up Salomons to 15, and forget to bump up my Pivots, but never notice them.

    I have not run them on pow skis yet (due to the presence of Salomon), but hear they are bit harder to step into the heel in deep snow. Makes sense.

    ETA:
    Two other things:
    1 - The mounting pattern of Pivots is smaller than Salomons. As a result, you get more of the natural flex of the skis. Some people say they can feel the difference. I might be confirmation biasing myself into believing the same.
    2 - The release arc / mechanics were explained by an engineer in some other thread here on the boards. Engineer-person made some point about the direction of the release arc, and how that resulted in being able to run a lower DIN while achieving similar retention. Someone smart out there can confirm?
    sproing!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,744
    I'm 230 lbs, ski as hard as anybody and run my pivots at 8. Never have had an unintentional release.

    11 sounds crazy to me.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    6,643
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    Same here on the heel release. With Sally/Tyrolia they seem to release somewhere in the range of really inconvenient and hazardous......resulting in things like a head first slide for life down icy bumps in Carona Bowl at Stevens a couple years ago. Anymore I'm only on binders with dildo heels; Pivot, SPX, Royal family. Haven't had the dread heel release problem with those and each has it's good points and quirks. As far as DIN goes, I'm comfortable running Looks a full 3+ points lower than Sally/Tryolia in the heel and knowing I'll still get better retention. Look toes also rock. Surprised the SPX doesn't get more love around here, good clamps.
    Ditto. My wife and daughter are in boots 1 mondo size apart, as are my son and I. Ever since Look moved from the PX to the SPX we've been in the SPXs - that way we can move the bindings enough to accommodate for the different BSLs and share skis (not possible with Pivot.) Also you'd be surprised how many shops still screw up a pivot install. The SPXs added more elastic travel (now more than the Sollys) which is nice for a variety of reasons, and I can run SPXs lower without prerelease, allowing me to get in under the 12 DIN limit. I'm big on the SPX. Only downside is getting in in deep snow, and I've never not been able to do it, so who cares?

    Oh yeah - the other downside is that replacement brakes cost a lot.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW -> MSO
    Posts
    7,889
    ^ BSL plays in, too, remember.

    Re. heel release... lore is that the dildo has to rotate through a larger included angle before letting go of the boot. Small sharp "recoverable" hits result in the boot returning to the ski instead of releasing, thus the claim of Elastic Travel.

    Signed,
    Pivot Fanboiiii

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    6,643
    Found the elasticity numbers in an old thread and added Jesters and Tyrolia:

    Salomon STH:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 52 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm


    Pivot:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 28 mm


    Look SPX:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 27 mm


    Marker Jester:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 30 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm


    Tyrolia Attack:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 30 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm




    disclaimer: those Look numbers are current I believe, but I think the STH, Jester and Attack numbers are a couple years old. I don't think they have changed, but I can't swear that's true...

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    13,844
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tortoise View Post
    I'm 230 lbs, ski as hard as anybody and run my pivots at 8. Never have had an unintentional release.

    11 sounds crazy to me.
    Bsl matters. Short boot = higher din

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,744
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Bsl matters. Short boot = higher din
    True, I guess I just assumed everyone wore a 27.5.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    2,668
    Due to the title of this thread, this will undoubtedly become one of the first Google searches to pop up whenever Jerry types in pivots vs soloman bindings. Due to the fact that this thread will become somewhat of a reference let's try not to lead anyone astray.

    Sent from my I3123 using Tapatalk

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Winthrop, WA.
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by beece View Post
    Ditto. My wife and daughter are in boots 1 mondo size apart, as are my son and I. Ever since Look moved from the PX to the SPX we've been in the SPXs - that way we can move the bindings enough to accommodate for the different BSLs and share skis (not possible with Pivot.) Also you'd be surprised how many shops still screw up a pivot install. The SPXs added more elastic travel (now more than the Sollys) which is nice for a variety of reasons, and I can run SPXs lower without prerelease, allowing me to get in under the 12 DIN limit. I'm big on the SPX. Only downside is getting in in deep snow, and I've never not been able to do it, so who cares?

    Oh yeah - the other downside is that replacement brakes cost a lot.
    Yeah, that too.

    This has been very interesting hearing everyone's experiences with Sally's and Pivots, pro and con or both. Fortunately, we have options and get to use what we want based on our own experiences. I'd be interested to see if there is any correlation to height, weight, or skiing style and releases from Sally or Pivot heels.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NCW
    Posts
    4,577
    Quote Originally Posted by mattig View Post
    Interesting that the consensus so far has been heel pre-release issues are more common on Sally > Look. For me, the only truly ridiculous heel pre-release I've ever had has been with the dildo heeled Axial 2 / SPX 12. Happened twice in the same day landing off the same mini-kicker.
    SPX/Axial bindings don't really apply to this conversation. IME they are VERY sensitive to the forward pressure adjustment and must be set correctly or any aggressive skier WILL walk out of them. The turntable FKS/Pivot design has much better heel retention.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    OR
    Posts
    1,937
    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Salomons to 15
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tortoise View Post
    I'm 230 lbs, ski as hard as anybody and run my pivots at 8. Never have had an unintentional release.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    14,410
    Quote Originally Posted by klauss View Post
    In the minority on the boards, but slight edge to the Salomon STHs/STH2/916s for me over Pivots and Tyrolia AAA

    I ski them all at the same din

    Them 3 of my trusted bindings. They all work fine when adjusted correctly, I just think Pivot brake mechs are underwhelming, a touch harder to set fwd pressure correctly as the tab/line is not the way to do it, and the dild is a bit more fussy to get on off in certain scenarios. I'd happily buy a set of skis with any of the three, but the pivots carry a cool factor price premium IMO that I still can't discern on snow i.e. the elastic travel. I also don't like how tyrolias brakes attach through to the ski instead of the binding, I have broken a metal AFD, plus another set I got second hand had a stripped toe height adj, but things happen and it a solid binding overall. I've never pre-released in Sallys STHs/916s...ever so interesting to hear the JSA reports above
    In your club. Sallie through and through. Skied a few others and never had issues, just like Sallie. I prefer older models too. I too never felt the difference in a look pseries. Cool factor for sure.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •