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  1. #1
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    Pivots vs Salomon Bindings

    Bought a pair of used skis with Pivots which Iíve never owned. Iím a Super Serious Salomon Sally, love them, so Iím wondering if DIN settings are equivalent across the two. Iím being ultra nerdy I know but I skied Tyrolia bindings for a few years and those damn things popped off when I sneezed too hard. I really had to crank them because I sneeze a lot, and they still popped off anyways.

    Pivots are same-same as Salomonís or ??

  2. #2
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    Yer gonna die....

  3. #3
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    I was always able to set Looks a bit lower than Salomons.

  4. #4
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    DIN release torque should be the same across all brands. Assuming your issue with the Tyrolias were pre-releases, that's more of an elastic travel issue. More is better and pivots have lots. FWIW I've been a pivot fanboi (mostly FKS 180, FKS 150, and Look ZR18) for over 15 years and never come out when I shouldn't but do when I should. Usually run them between 10 and 11.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    I was always able to set Looks a bit lower than Salomons.
    Same ime. New salmons, sth2 style heel I have to run higher. They heel release very easily. Iíve had great luck with din15-18 tyrolia bindings. My second favorite after pivots. Havenít tried the newer model tyrolias but reviews are good. Back in the day I liked old Salomons. But gave up on them due to the toe piece invariably loosening and the heel wobble


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  6. #6
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    Aug 2007
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    Thanks, that helps. Maybe I’ll become a fanboy too. I’ve had two painful low-tide/hardpack pre-releases on my Salomon’s this year, I need a confidence boost.

    And M2711c, I know. you will too at some point.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    I was always able to set Looks a bit lower than Salomons.
    X3. I also tend to run my solly's higher in the heel than the toe, due to the aforementioned heel prerelease. I've been running looks the same front and rear.

  8. #8
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    Same here on the heel release. With Sally/Tyrolia they seem to release somewhere in the range of really inconvenient and hazardous......resulting in things like a head first slide for life down icy bumps in Carona Bowl at Stevens a couple years ago. Anymore I'm only on binders with dildo heels; Pivot, SPX, Royal family. Haven't had the dread heel release problem with those and each has it's good points and quirks. As far as DIN goes, I'm comfortable running Looks a full 3+ points lower than Sally/Tryolia in the heel and knowing I'll still get better retention. Look toes also rock. Surprised the SPX doesn't get more love around here, good clamps.

  9. #9
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    In the minority on the boards, but slight edge to the Salomon STHs/STH2/916s for me over Pivots and Tyrolia AAA

    I ski them all at the same din

    Them 3 of my trusted bindings. They all work fine when adjusted correctly, I just think Pivot brake mechs are underwhelming, a touch harder to set fwd pressure correctly as the tab/line is not the way to do it, and the dild is a bit more fussy to get on off in certain scenarios. I'd happily buy a set of skis with any of the three, but the pivots carry a cool factor price premium IMO that I still can't discern on snow i.e. the elastic travel. I also don't like how tyrolias brakes attach through to the ski instead of the binding, I have broken a metal AFD, plus another set I got second hand had a stripped toe height adj, but things happen and it a solid binding overall. I've never pre-released in Sallys STHs/916s...ever so interesting to hear the JSA reports above

  10. #10
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    Nov 2014
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    Interesting that the consensus so far has been heel pre-release issues are more common on Sally > Look. For me, the only truly ridiculous heel pre-release I've ever had has been with the dildo heeled Axial 2 / SPX 12. Happened twice in the same day landing off the same mini-kicker. Never had a surprise with the Wardens (STH2 heel), or with my Tyrolia Peak 15s for that matter (no screw-through brakes on those, Klauss, and lots of metal).

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    160
    Same experience as Mattig - have had prereleases on Axial 2, but love all the Sallys Iíve skied. Fwiw, Iím small and am generally run my din at 8, so that may impact my experience

  12. #12
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    I'll add that when I was younger and skied at my limit more frequently Pivots were clearly better for me. These days my technique is better and ski more smoothly/conservatively and the extra costs of Pivots, along with the lack of adjustment, isn't worth it.

  13. #13
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    I manage to ski pretty hard and stay in pins
    In and outta bounds
    But I have a trained professional set my gear
    The same one that uses a high dollar binding function test to tell you they almost all test the same when properly adjusted
    Dildos suck but they always test well
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    X3. I also tend to run my solly's higher in the heel than the toe, due to the aforementioned heel prerelease. I've been running looks the same front and rear.
    Was a Sally user for 10 years. Then I got some Pivots.

    I will not be buying any Sallies again...

    Early season, I run my Pivots at 11, and Salomons at 13. Later in the season, bump up Salomons to 15, and forget to bump up my Pivots, but never notice them.

    I have not run them on pow skis yet (due to the presence of Salomon), but hear they are bit harder to step into the heel in deep snow. Makes sense.

    ETA:
    Two other things:
    1 - The mounting pattern of Pivots is smaller than Salomons. As a result, you get more of the natural flex of the skis. Some people say they can feel the difference. I might be confirmation biasing myself into believing the same.
    2 - The release arc / mechanics were explained by an engineer in some other thread here on the boards. Engineer-person made some point about the direction of the release arc, and how that resulted in being able to run a lower DIN while achieving similar retention. Someone smart out there can confirm?

  15. #15
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    Oct 2010
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    I'm 230 lbs, ski as hard as anybody and run my pivots at 8. Never have had an unintentional release.

    11 sounds crazy to me.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    Same here on the heel release. With Sally/Tyrolia they seem to release somewhere in the range of really inconvenient and hazardous......resulting in things like a head first slide for life down icy bumps in Carona Bowl at Stevens a couple years ago. Anymore I'm only on binders with dildo heels; Pivot, SPX, Royal family. Haven't had the dread heel release problem with those and each has it's good points and quirks. As far as DIN goes, I'm comfortable running Looks a full 3+ points lower than Sally/Tryolia in the heel and knowing I'll still get better retention. Look toes also rock. Surprised the SPX doesn't get more love around here, good clamps.
    Ditto. My wife and daughter are in boots 1 mondo size apart, as are my son and I. Ever since Look moved from the PX to the SPX we've been in the SPXs - that way we can move the bindings enough to accommodate for the different BSLs and share skis (not possible with Pivot.) Also you'd be surprised how many shops still screw up a pivot install. The SPXs added more elastic travel (now more than the Sollys) which is nice for a variety of reasons, and I can run SPXs lower without prerelease, allowing me to get in under the 12 DIN limit. I'm big on the SPX. Only downside is getting in in deep snow, and I've never not been able to do it, so who cares?

    Oh yeah - the other downside is that replacement brakes cost a lot.

  17. #17
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    ^ BSL plays in, too, remember.

    Re. heel release... lore is that the dildo has to rotate through a larger included angle before letting go of the boot. Small sharp "recoverable" hits result in the boot returning to the ski instead of releasing, thus the claim of Elastic Travel.

    Signed,
    Pivot Fanboiiii
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  18. #18
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    Sep 2018
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    Found the elasticity numbers in an old thread and added Jesters and Tyrolia:

    Salomon STH:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 52 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm


    Pivot:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 28 mm


    Look SPX:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 27 mm


    Marker Jester:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 30 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm


    Tyrolia Attack:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 30 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm




    disclaimer: those Look numbers are current I believe, but I think the STH, Jester and Attack numbers are a couple years old. I don't think they have changed, but I can't swear that's true...

  19. #19
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tortoise View Post
    I'm 230 lbs, ski as hard as anybody and run my pivots at 8. Never have had an unintentional release.

    11 sounds crazy to me.
    Bsl matters. Short boot = higher din

  20. #20
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Bsl matters. Short boot = higher din
    True, I guess I just assumed everyone wore a 27.5.

  21. #21
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    Sep 2018
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    Due to the title of this thread, this will undoubtedly become one of the first Google searches to pop up whenever Jerry types in pivots vs soloman bindings. Due to the fact that this thread will become somewhat of a reference let's try not to lead anyone astray.

    Sent from my I3123 using Tapatalk

  22. #22
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    Jan 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by beece View Post
    Ditto. My wife and daughter are in boots 1 mondo size apart, as are my son and I. Ever since Look moved from the PX to the SPX we've been in the SPXs - that way we can move the bindings enough to accommodate for the different BSLs and share skis (not possible with Pivot.) Also you'd be surprised how many shops still screw up a pivot install. The SPXs added more elastic travel (now more than the Sollys) which is nice for a variety of reasons, and I can run SPXs lower without prerelease, allowing me to get in under the 12 DIN limit. I'm big on the SPX. Only downside is getting in in deep snow, and I've never not been able to do it, so who cares?

    Oh yeah - the other downside is that replacement brakes cost a lot.
    Yeah, that too.

    This has been very interesting hearing everyone's experiences with Sally's and Pivots, pro and con or both. Fortunately, we have options and get to use what we want based on our own experiences. I'd be interested to see if there is any correlation to height, weight, or skiing style and releases from Sally or Pivot heels.

  23. #23
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattig View Post
    Interesting that the consensus so far has been heel pre-release issues are more common on Sally > Look. For me, the only truly ridiculous heel pre-release I've ever had has been with the dildo heeled Axial 2 / SPX 12. Happened twice in the same day landing off the same mini-kicker.
    SPX/Axial bindings don't really apply to this conversation. IME they are VERY sensitive to the forward pressure adjustment and must be set correctly or any aggressive skier WILL walk out of them. The turntable FKS/Pivot design has much better heel retention.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Salomons to 15
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tortoise View Post
    I'm 230 lbs, ski as hard as anybody and run my pivots at 8. Never have had an unintentional release.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by klauss View Post
    In the minority on the boards, but slight edge to the Salomon STHs/STH2/916s for me over Pivots and Tyrolia AAA

    I ski them all at the same din

    Them 3 of my trusted bindings. They all work fine when adjusted correctly, I just think Pivot brake mechs are underwhelming, a touch harder to set fwd pressure correctly as the tab/line is not the way to do it, and the dild is a bit more fussy to get on off in certain scenarios. I'd happily buy a set of skis with any of the three, but the pivots carry a cool factor price premium IMO that I still can't discern on snow i.e. the elastic travel. I also don't like how tyrolias brakes attach through to the ski instead of the binding, I have broken a metal AFD, plus another set I got second hand had a stripped toe height adj, but things happen and it a solid binding overall. I've never pre-released in Sallys STHs/916s...ever so interesting to hear the JSA reports above
    In your club. Sallie through and through. Skied a few others and never had issues, just like Sallie. I prefer older models too. I too never felt the difference in a look pseries. Cool factor for sure.

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