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Thread: Miniaturizing beacon technology
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01-12-2020, 11:20 PM #26
To invest in an active easier-to-detect recco tab does little to the solve the original question. What is the point? It still cannot be used for companion rescue, which is the entire purpose of the avalanche transceiver.
The current recco system work adequately once deployed. The rumor is that the 3rd Silver victim was found buried at 6m which has a survival probability approaching 0% under any circumstance. That they were found by a (special) helicopter recco detector on day 2, after handheld detectors had already been used to sweep the field... it most likely indicates that the victim was not wearing a RECCO reflector at all, but that the advanced detector was sensitive enough to detect a consumer electronic device (which you can sometimes do with a handheld detector).
But I am not certain about whether the victim had a recco tab.... I don't have that kind of information. Another possibility is that the victim was wearing a tab that was shielded (perhaps an active tab would help here, but wearing 2 passive tabs is an easier failsafe).Originally Posted by blurred
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01-12-2020, 11:23 PM #27Registered User
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You raise a great point with having to design backwards compatibility holding back development. Very true. Making old transceivers obsolete has only really happened once, moving from 2.275khz to 457. Still i think if only 50,000 units ( I believe that was the number used in an Avsar course I took last year, but it could be a few 10k more) are sold world wide by all manufactures combined there is just limited profit that can be made.
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01-12-2020, 11:57 PM #28
These things seem somewhat at odds with each other: the first seems valid enough, but it's hard to imagine the current system being adequate in the context of the original question, since it is exceedingly rare that it saves a life. Adequate for body recovery at minimal cost, ok, but not adequate for the OP purposes.
The Backup seems to represent a much better answer in any case.
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01-13-2020, 08:43 AM #29
Sounds like Silver Mtn. doesn't own a Recco detector:
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...alanche-victi/Last edited by sfotex; 01-13-2020 at 09:34 AM.
When life gives you haters, make haterade.
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01-13-2020, 08:57 AM #30
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01-13-2020, 10:42 AM #31Well maybe I'm the faggot America
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda
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01-13-2020, 10:49 AM #32
Mini personal locator beacons. It'll happen. My father in law told me we would have cars that drive themselves. 40 years ago.
A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.
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01-13-2020, 11:27 AM #33
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01-13-2020, 01:00 PM #34
That's what I predict. Middle of the forehead implant so it's obvious. Like a license plate. 2040.
A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.
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01-13-2020, 05:17 PM #35
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01-13-2020, 10:16 PM #36
^^^ this.
That's a great idea. Not a companion rescue setup but for some people, they really only want to be able to be found in the slackcountry when skiing without a backpack and avy gear.
And further to the active patch antenna idea, I don't see why the system has to be fixed in a single unit.
They come with a three point strap, why not have an antenna built into the strap? Or perhaps a unit that does duty as Transmit and a second unit, that does duty as Search.
If the box is too big and not ergonomic, and limited in some way,
think outside the box.OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman Big Billie Eilish fan.
But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er
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01-13-2020, 10:20 PM #37OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman Big Billie Eilish fan.
But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er
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01-13-2020, 11:20 PM #38
Are you suggesting that there are people who understand the avalanche danger, want to ski avalanche terrain, but don't want companion rescue capability? And that the industry should enable such selfish irresponsible desires by making a new product?
Pieps and RECCO have specifically said that is not their intent.
No company could develop such a product in good conscience with that intent.
What is wrong with you dude? Shove that idea of the "slackcountry" right back in the pit where you found it.
If you want a location device for the backcountry that is going to have a super low save rate because it relies on the longer response time of organized rescue, well the options are out there already.Originally Posted by blurred
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01-13-2020, 11:41 PM #39
I wouldn't bother arguing or addressing PG.
He seems like the type of guy who thinks the stuff they use to solve crimes on those CSI shows is real.
The opposite of miniaturizing is the way to go. The opposite of send/reflect only is the way to go.
IMHO, one potential method for improving would be to build multiple arrays of very strong send / return antennas into a base layer shirt and long johns. It would fuck up the antenna alignment, but with more antennae, a stronger signal, and longer reach, it may overcome that. Obviously I haven't tested this.
You'd still need to power the system and have some type of search interface. But you'd likely be able to run a variety (and especially longer wave length) of frequencies for faster area searches and more accuracy for deeper burials, which could save valuable time. Automatic switching between frequencies and antennae alignments depending on orientation could help as searchers approached.
Just a back of the napkin idea I've had for a while. Obviously a problem with electronics and multiple antennae arrays in inherently damp, washable, foldable environs, but more plausible in terms of physics than shrinking a fully functional send return search system transmitting and receiving at a useful frequency (ie. with the necessary antennae) into a recco tag.
Trademarked. Boiler plate, boiler plate.Last edited by reckless toboggan; 01-14-2020 at 12:17 AM.
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01-14-2020, 07:02 AM #40User
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01-14-2020, 01:09 PM #41
I think there is a legit argument for selling mini transmitters.
Assuming they are for inbounds only tourists.
More folks are getting in the habit of beeping inbounds on big pow days.
Obviously it would suck wearing a transmitter and being unable to search if something went. But the folks that bought these wouldn’t want to train or learn to search anyways.. . .
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01-14-2020, 01:13 PM #42
Having a bunch of gapers that don't know anything about companion rescue milling around/losing their shit while wearing transmit only beacons would be my worst nightmare if trying to do a beacon search.
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01-14-2020, 01:14 PM #43
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01-14-2020, 03:35 PM #44"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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01-14-2020, 03:47 PM #45
Last edited by Summit; 01-14-2020 at 04:26 PM.
Originally Posted by blurred
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01-14-2020, 03:59 PM #46"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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01-14-2020, 04:39 PM #47
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01-14-2020, 04:42 PM #48
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01-14-2020, 04:52 PM #49Registered User
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01-14-2020, 04:57 PM #50
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