Results 126 to 150 of 150
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01-17-2020, 08:02 AM #126
Speaking from personal experience I don't think the you tube comes even close to the gruesomeness of an actual body recovery. I've witnessed my fair share. As far as the monday morning quarterbacking goes, high risk sports involves consequence. The perils and pitfalls of mitigation I thought were addressed well by others in this thread. My girlfriend is fond of saying: " The avalanche doesn't know that you're an expert." Have fun, be careful, use your backcountry strategy when skiing rope drops. The ravages of time will destroy us all. Today is a gift, especially when it involves double figures of snowfall.
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01-17-2020, 07:20 PM #127
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01-17-2020, 07:49 PM #128Registered User
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01-22-2020, 11:29 PM #129Registered User
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Originally Posted by GoldMember
I also spent ten years and some change working on that mtn, doing everything from running a Cat, throwing bombs, to the hill management. I have never seen Warner slide that big, ever when the area was open to the public. I have seen pictures of Warner Peak and Kellogg Peak sliding from the summit into the town of Wardner with a number of fatalities. All 3500' of the two major slide paths during the late 1880s and early 1900s. So we all knew it had happened. And we knew it could happen again if one was inattentive. It would seem the current and suspect hoar frost layer this year was pretty well known in the Panhandle snowpack. More important to me looking at the cause of these slides was the storm event and resulting wind load.
I've been trying to collect data on this slide that seems to be scarce in detail from my perspective. TGR is the only place I have read that day of the accident was also first day of the season Wardner was open.
For the Pros that do this chit daily it aint rocket science. You dig snow pits for a reason, you bomb , ski cut as required and when it doubt about conditions, specific areas get shut down for 24/48 hrs. Warner being closed after a big storm for 24 to 48 hrs was a common practice back in the day. And people bitched. I suspect there will be a lot less bitching now if that decision is made. Having been there and actually done that in this instance I have a lot of questions about what specifically was done for control work in the 12 hrs prior to this slide.
Truly my heart goes out to the victims, the families and all the Silver's crew that were involved. But I aint swallowing this was a "freak" incident. No question Silver has dangerous terrain. The ski area and that specific run have been open since 1969. 16:1 ( the run that slid ) likely sees more traffic now than it ever has in the past 50 years.
The lessons here are too numerous to list.
But there are lessons, for the skiing public on any mountain with a serious avi hazard, and the mountain's management.Last edited by Dane1; 01-23-2020 at 06:29 PM.
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01-23-2020, 09:55 AM #130Registered User
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Well put, Dane. I have been involved in emergency services in the past, and had the unfortunate experience of being close to two employee fatalities. Mourning the loss is absolutely acceptable, but so is investigation of decision-making and policy following those incidents.
Chocking things up to bad luck serves the families and loved ones and the rest of us that justify our risks skiing this terrain, but it doesn’t serve anyone going forward when it comes to risk mitigation.
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01-23-2020, 11:24 AM #131Registered User
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01-23-2020, 12:13 PM #132
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01-23-2020, 01:14 PM #133
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01-23-2020, 08:58 PM #134“I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”
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01-23-2020, 09:47 PM #135I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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01-23-2020, 11:54 PM #136
That would be a pretty legit experiment to conduct. A well-trained dog versus an experienced human in an avvy field would make for some interesting tests.
But my hot take is that while competing in a controlled environment would produce close times, the stress of being in a such a situation gives the dog an edge.
I mean, while a human has a range of emotions to deal with, the only things going through the dog's mind are "Oh boy! Snow and people! I'm excited! What's this- Something to smell? Okay let me follow my nose!".
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01-24-2020, 01:09 AM #137
Silver Mt, ID 1/7/2020 Two Fatalities
Most recreational backcountry users tend to overestimate their abilities and skill sets in this area, it takes time and practice to be proficient which few follow up on after their one day classes covering companion rescue instead they seem to argue about shit like which pocket makes them faster. I’ve seen dogs clear a 100m x 100m site with 2 live burials and 3 articles of clothing in less than ten minutes. The people are in holes 2m deep and the clothing articles are used to simulate deeper burials of a person without a transceiver. Good luck to anyone that is faster
“I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”
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01-24-2020, 02:03 AM #138Registered User
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Yeah, but how long to get a dog on scene?
Especially in a Backcountry / recreational rescue scenario. It's just body recovery usually at that point.
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01-24-2020, 06:43 AM #139
I was more focused on an in bounds scenario.
There are times where a dog is readily available, and other times when 5-10 minutes may elapse before on scene while a trained professional or 2 may already be on scene.
I have little doubt from my experiences that if a human and a dog at started at the same time the dog will be faster.I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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01-24-2020, 07:31 AM #140Registered User
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01-24-2020, 11:00 AM #141
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01-24-2020, 11:24 AM #142
It depends on the dog.
I've been on slides where the dog made the find, and quickly. Although, on those there was no recco.
I've been on slides where the dogs couldn't make the find and it was the recco that finally made it.
I'll take the best dog + handler over a recco run by an average tech, but I'll take the best tech with the recco over an average dog.Originally Posted by blurred
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01-24-2020, 11:39 AM #143
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01-24-2020, 03:46 PM #144
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01-24-2020, 04:01 PM #145
Patrol will do a beacon search everytime and will be the first thing they do as part of their immediate search. Even if they are told no one is wearing a beacon.
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01-24-2020, 04:07 PM #146
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01-24-2020, 05:31 PM #147
Love me some dog, but that little fella ain't getting to me until it's too late in all likelyhood where I ski.
Never knew they were so much faster than a person with a beacon though. That's cool.“I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country
www.mymountaincoop.ca
This is OUR mountain - come join us!
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01-24-2020, 09:11 PM #148“I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”
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02-03-2020, 11:19 PM #149Registered User
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Has there been a report released for this yet?
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02-04-2020, 06:05 AM #150Registered User
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There are some details on CAIC report but it is just preliminary. I do not expect a full report to end up being published since it happened within a private ski area. The Taos avalanche from last year has even less information on the CAIC report.
https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/a...=731&accfm=rep
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