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  1. #76
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    I should know this but I don't. Is it standard practice everywhere for patrol to listen for beeps on an in-bounds slide?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by beece View Post
    I should know this but I don't. Is it standard practice everywhere for patrol to listen for beeps on an in-bounds slide?
    AFAIK every patrol I've chatted with will do a quick sweep. Source is my SAR experience, troller friends, and talking to random patrollers on the hill.

    Anyone else care to elaborate?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    AFAIK every patrol I've chatted with will do a quick sweep. Source is my SAR experience, troller friends, and talking to random patrollers on the hill.

    Anyone else care to elaborate?
    Your initial rescue 'strike' team is going to have a person doing a beacon search and someone is going to start a Recco search when the unit get there, along with searching for obvious visual clues. While this is going on you can start rescuers that are showing up with probing areas of high probability (trees, roll overs, toe of debris) while you get organized into probe lines/get the dogs into the area.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    The thread below posted a copy of a letter from one of the persons that was rescued from the avalanche.

    http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewt...174970#1174970

    01/07/2020
    Personal Summery by Bill Fuzak
    Avalanche burial at Silver Mountain Ski Area / Wardner Traverse / 16 to 1 run
    On Tuesday Jan 7, 2020 around 11 AM I was involved in and consequently fully buried for approximately 50 minutes in an inbounds avalanche at Silver Mountain Ski and Snowboard Park. The avalanche occurred in a recently opened part of the ski area where over 20 inches of new snow had fallen in two days.
    I was part of a group of 10+ skiers and boarders that had entered the Wardner Traverse area and started setting a ski packed path on the Traverse. We had been waiting for the rope to drop for the area and entered the traverse only after the closed sign had been removed and with a Silver Mountain Ski Patrol member giving the verbal ok to “start cutting the traverse ourselves or wait for a Ski Patroller to break trail on the traverse”. I personally heard the conversation with the 3 lead skiers and the patroller as I was the 4th person going out onto the newly cut traverse. Our understanding was avalanche mitigation with explosive charges had been completed off the top of Wardner Peak before skiers and boarders entered the then uncut traverse.
    The going was slow and all but 6 or 7 riders of the original group dropped into glades prior to reaching the run named 16 to 1. The three lead skiers dropped in to ski the fresh snow about a third of the way across 16 to1. The rest of us, appx 4 or 5 people, dropped in closer to the tree edge. After only one or two turns the snow started to fracture above us as well as below us and the slide started to propagate and accelerate. I heard a female voice over my right shoulder, I think it was Rebecca, say calmly that “it’s giving way, try to stay on top”. I lost my left ski almost immediately and fell backwards while trying to release my right ski to no avail. A few seconds later while swimming to try and stay on top of the slide it slowed and pulled me down completely under the snow. As the moving snow ground to a halt and compressed around me I started punching upwards with my right fist to create an air hole above me. I was able to successfully reach the surface with my right fist and then started creating space around my mouth and face to get air. When I had air flowing unobstructed into the hole I had created I started waving my gloved hand out the air hole hoping someone would see me. I also shouted for help for several seconds before calming down. I was glad to have air and thought I had a good chance to be rescued.
    Within seconds, another, more powerful slide hit and buried my breathing hole under what felt like feet of snow. I heard and felt the snow compress around me and I was unable to move anything but my right hand to clear my face and mouth. At this point I tried to calm my breathing and conserve air. I don’t know how long I stayed conscious after that. I had already relegated myself to the inevitable as I knew the air would not last long. I was in no pain and knew I wasn’t injured. I’m really surprised how calm I felt but knew there was nothing I could do but wait and pray.
    The first thing I remember when coming back to consciousness was a group of rescuers cheering that a survivor had been located, me. I cannot express the surprise and relief I felt to hear and see other people digging me out. Ski patroller Bill held my hand and helped keep me calm as he and the others helped dig me out as I was buried upright in the deep snow. Apparently, my lips were blue when they unburied me and I was initially unconscious. My hands and feet were extremely cold but I was uninjured, breathing and moving well. I was elated to still be “here”. I was more than ready to get out of my encasement, afraid that a 3rd slide would bury me again. Bill asked me about other members of the party I was aware of. I thought there were at least 3 others buried in my general vicinity. I believe Ski Patroller Maya Pardue found me with her probe then other volunteers came over to help dig me out. Maya, thanks for sticking to it, finding me and consequently saving my life. I am eternally grateful to you and your group of patrollers.
    During and after extrication Patroller Bill checked me over and concluded I was not severely injured. I was able to walk and with help load into a toboggan attached to a snowmobile. A snowmobile driver and Ski Patroller Bill transported me down to the snow cat maintenance facility to be checked out by local medical professionals and warmed up. I sat with and spoke with another rescued local skier named Ken who had also been buried for 50 minutes. He also survived by creating an air space and through the incredible efforts of Ski Patrol and other volunteers on scene. I was interviewed extensively by the Sheriff as well as the head of Silver Mountain Ski Patrol in the Ski patrol office.
    I cannot give enough thanks and compliments for the effort shown by the Silver Mountain Ski Patrol, Search and Rescue volunteers as well as other skiers and riders that played a role in saving my life and the other riders lives. My family especially wants to thank them all for saving us. My heart goes out to the families of the two riders that did not survive.
    Sincerely,
    Bill Fuzak
    maggs…

    I wanted to post in this thread because the northern Rockies of USA is treasured country to me :
    I tried to migrate to the region twice thirty years ago. . . and

    since our day at Lost Trail in 2017, I have said(,) If I had skied Lost Trail in 1989-1990, I would have found a way to stay in the region...

    I used to work with a man who skied Jackass in the late 1970s and early 1980s... and

    I considered applying a few years ago, when Silver Mtn. conducted a nationwide Search
    ( Missing from my resume : Snow Safety Mitigation experience )


    my sincere Condolences to those touched by Loss of this incident --

    my solemn, ,,, Relief for the survivors ( Fifty minute burial. as others have said, Not statistically … )

    my sincere [ Thank You ] to All who contributed to the Search and Rescue response ( I don't believe I am still Able to contribute The effort required for this Work
    ( Time marches on... and my health is not healthy )

    in closing, I offer this only as a Request :

    Please , Get Home Safely.

    it looks fun. and it looks great. But If it is not Safe...

    There are too many in these pages and in these endeavors who don't make it home . . .

    Please , Get Home Safely .


    Thank you for this important tread...

    tj
    " ... I will do anything to go Skiing ... There Is no pride ... " (Miriam , 2005-2006 epic)

    Dec21, 2016. LittleBigLost :
    " I think about it everyday. It is my reminder to live life to the fullest. I get up early, go to bed late, 'cuz I got shit to do. Like I said, I'm 61. Not going to wait till I'm 81 to do stuff, ...

    Get out there and do stuff!

    Enjoy life to the fullest!!

    See you on the slopes! "

  5. #80
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    All of you that are aiding and abetting negligence here are despicable. An avalanche of this size, occurring on open terrain of that nature isn't "the raw power of mother nature" it's inexcusable. Full Stop. The snow safety director and patrol director there need to lose their jobs, and should never be able to work in those fields again, anywhere. They fucked up by opening that terrain to the public.

    If you disagree, you're wrong, AND you're welcome to go fuck yourself.

    But sure, go ahead and be corporate apologists, I would expect nothing less from the legions of herpetic sphincters around here.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by rip View Post
    Hard to tell but at about 24 sec it looks like you can see some bombholes from hand charges. Spooky. One hell of a deposition pile, looks like a cat was in pushing on it.

    Condolences to all involved.
    I found the cat track through the debris to an extremely odd thing to see.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    All of you that are aiding and abetting negligence here are despicable. An avalanche of this size, occurring on open terrain of that nature isn't "the raw power of mother nature" it's inexcusable. Full Stop. The snow safety director and patrol director there need to lose their jobs, and should never be able to work in those fields again, anywhere. They fucked up by opening that terrain to the public.

    If you disagree, you're wrong, AND you're welcome to go fuck yourself.

    But sure, go ahead and be corporate apologists, I would expect nothing less from the legions of herpetic sphincters around here.
    You need help

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    All of you that are aiding and abetting negligence here are despicable. An avalanche of this size, occurring on open terrain of that nature isn't "the raw power of mother nature" it's inexcusable. Full Stop. The snow safety director and patrol director there need to lose their jobs, and should never be able to work in those fields again, anywhere. They fucked up by opening that terrain to the public.

    If you disagree, you're wrong, AND you're welcome to go fuck yourself.

    But sure, go ahead and be corporate apologists, I would expect nothing less from the legions of herpetic sphincters around here.
    Yeah because your level of expertise means so fucking much.

    Pretty sure the Patrol Dir. and the SS Dir. are one and the same.

    I was offered that job in 2013/14 and turned it down because I did not see myself living in Kellogg.

    As for the rest of your bullshit..............
    Ooof!

  9. #84
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    glademaster, simmer down, as in stop freebasing meth for a few days maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  10. #85
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    you can freebase that stuff? just asking for a friend...

  11. #86
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    Maybe probes not long enough to reach bottom of debris. Scraped off snow with groomer to probe too bottom.
    We're not happy 'til you're not happy.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hey Diddle Diddle View Post
    Maybe probes not long enough to reach bottom of debris. Scraped off snow with groomer to probe too bottom.
    Yup. Current ICAR probing recommendation:
    To minimize search times, maximize survival chances and reduce risk to
    rescuers, it is recommended to apply the following procedure:
    1) With limited resources, in cases with obvious terrain traps and
    around anchored surface clues, spot probe the most likely burial
    areas.
    2) Coarse probe the likely burial areas:
    a. On first passage limit the probing depth to 1,5m.
    b. On second passage, probe with lateral offset and maximum
    probing depth.
    3) Fine probe the entire avalanche debris including the immediately
    adjacent areas to maximum probing depth.
    4) Remove the fine-probed debris to within 1m of the probed depth.
    Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  13. #88
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    Agree on initial probe depth to depth of likely survival. POD (probability of detection) is high but not 100%.

    Scraping off snow with a groomer is not recommended ICAR procedure. I've never heard of such a practice.

    On the off chance someone had a large or connected airspace, it would likely be crushed. A shallower missed body could also be dismembered.

    In the picture it doesn't look like they ran the whole field with the cat, just across one section.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  14. #89
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    The woman who died was a pediatric neurosurgeon.

    RIP. https://komonews.com/news/local/ohsu...daho-avalanche



    Very sad.

  15. #90
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    Glademaster you should live in a bubble


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  16. #91
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    Preliminary report on CAIC says buried surface hoar was the weak layer on which the slab failed.

    https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/a...=731&accfm=rep
    We're not happy 'til you're not happy.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Agree on initial probe depth to depth of likely survival. POD (probability of detection) is high but not 100%.

    Scraping off snow with a groomer is not recommended ICAR procedure. I've never heard of such a practice.

    On the off chance someone had a large or connected airspace, it would likely be crushed. A shallower missed body could also be dismembered.

    In the picture it doesn't look like they ran the whole field with the cat, just across one section.
    I mean removing snow and re-probing, not sure about the cat. I heard she was buried 20 feet deep and located after the Recco hit from the helicopter? That's a lot of digging....
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfotex View Post
    I mean removing snow and re-probing, not sure about the cat. I heard she was buried 20 feet deep and located after the Recco hit from the helicopter? That's a lot of digging....
    Wow! 20ft? Jeez
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Scraping off snow with a groomer is not recommended ICAR procedure. I've never heard of such a practice.

    On the off chance someone had a large or connected airspace, it would likely be crushed. A shallower missed body could also be dismembered.

    In the picture it doesn't look like they ran the whole field with the cat, just across one section.
    Just curious, do you have another method in mind for moving that snow? Nothing is ideal, obviously, but I can't think of anything that would be less likely to crush an air pocket while moving that snow. Spreading the load on the tracks, minimum surface pressure and, of course, speed kind of limits the options, but I'm not sure what you'd rather have on hand.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Just curious, do you have another method in mind for moving that snow? Nothing is ideal, obviously, but I can't think of anything that would be less likely to crush an air pocket while moving that snow. Spreading the load on the tracks, minimum surface pressure and, of course, speed kind of limits the options, but I'm not sure what you'd rather have on hand.
    I misunderstood and thought the other poster was suggesting using this across an entire debris field with an unlocated victim, rather than for a localized 6m burial. What was actually done in this accident I do not know.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    All of you that are aiding and abetting negligence here are despicable. An avalanche of this size, occurring on open terrain of that nature isn't "the raw power of mother nature" it's inexcusable. Full Stop. The snow safety director and patrol director there need to lose their jobs, and should never be able to work in those fields again, anywhere. They fucked up by opening that terrain to the public.

    If you disagree, you're wrong, AND you're welcome to go fuck yourself.

    But sure, go ahead and be corporate apologists, I would expect nothing less from the legions of herpetic sphincters around here.
    Go fuck yourself.

    Bring some stoke or GTFO

    IMHO

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    The woman who died was a pediatric neurosurgeon.

    RIP. https://komonews.com/news/local/ohsu...daho-avalanche



    Very sad.
    Fack. Karma fail.
    How many lives would she have saved had she lived. Ugh
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.”
    Hunter S. Thompson

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    Fack. Karma fail.
    How many lives would she have saved had she lived. Ugh
    It always bugs the shit out of me when people value human life by their profession.

    It is a dead young woman. It is a fatality.

    You were a firefighter, you were pregnant, you were on patrol, you just got your shit together, you are in the army, you were mother teresa, ghandi.

    You died. You are a human. We all are.

  24. #99
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    The circumstances for all involved are horrendous and any loss of life is tragic.

    Vibes to the friends and loved ones that did not survive. Grateful that the warrior who was wielding these battle axes is still with us.
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by pipedream View Post
    One would think that a major slab like this would be sussed-out with a big enough charge. But the question is the placement and size of that charge. There are important lessons to be learned here on the hazard reduction side, too.
    Not always. And not every resort runs a bomb trolley over sketch slopes. There could be a convex under the snow that doesn't show with a bombhole right next to it that doesn't break until a skier's weight is on it in just the right place. Just like 200 skiers could have skied the slope and tracked the fuck out of it before it decided to break. There aren't any guarantees that bombing will do it and even if patrol knows where they should bomb based on the windload, the wind could have shifted during the night to load another aspect.

    I've had patrol buddies get buried after we bombed the shit out of a slope and then went in to ski cut it as a double precaution. I was once sent to ski cut a big bowl that had about seven feet of fresh and had been bombed all the way across the top as far down as a hand charge could be thrown. I cut it back and forth, then skied out and stopped at the bottom to look back up, only to hear what sounded like a stick of dynamite, watched it crack across the top, and the snow under my skis dropped a foot as it all settled in one big whumph! With no way out and standing in a terrain trap, I was pretty certain they would find me in the spring 50 feet deep as I almost shit myself. These things happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by fastfroggy View Post
    how prevalent are recco detectors? do all resorts, even smaller ones, own one or more?
    I think most people consider Recco a body retrieval tool due to it's bulkiness over transceivers . But I think I heard of someone in Europe being found alive with one, probably because first on scene in the Alps is often a heli that can do Recco recon.

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