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Thread: Avalanche Books
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01-09-2020, 05:40 PM #26Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Interesting observation -- thanks for sharing that perspective.
I haven't read the book front-to-back thoroughly since, hmm, whenever the first edition came out.
That first reading motivated me in part to take my Level 2, and then also Level 3.
Tremper made snow science seem so exciting in that first edition!
But ultimately from a individual decisionmaking perspective, I came to agree with your takeaway.
And the focus of formal avy instruction has been increasingly on terrain selection (which is why L1 courses out here rarely really get beyond the Awareness-course level) and human factors, especially with an emphasis on tour planning. (The changes over the years in the AIARE field book are a key manifestation of these changes.)
Quick q though: did you read the new[-ish] 3rd edition of the book that came out in 2018?
(I haven't had the chance yet to compare it to the first two editions.)Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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01-09-2020, 05:50 PM #27Registered User
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Field Guide to Snow Crystals by E.R. LaChappelle
The Snowflake by K. Libbrecht
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01-09-2020, 06:48 PM #28Gel-powered Tech bindings
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I have this old list of additional educational resources:
https://avycourse.blogspot.com/2010/...resources.htmlMo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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01-10-2020, 10:42 PM #29Registered User
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Oops, I guess I read the 2nd edition. But yeah, it seems to me that snow science and weather-based approaches are valuable and useful for professional avalanche forecasting, but not so much for individuals. As Tremper mentions, if you miss a day or two of monitoring conditions then the snowpack is now an unknown variable. As a layman who is trying to monitor conditions and go up on the weekend, it's just not realistic to be in tune to the degree necessary. The extreme example of the sky clearing up for a matter of hours overnight and surface hoar forming is mentioned in the book. And the more I read, the more the idea of a "representative snow pit" seems like a dangerous myth.
The snow science is actually very exciting though! I was flirting with a pet project idea of making a neural network-based predictor for snow stability with input from weather stations and ski patrol data. It would be based on a single mountain resort because there seemed to be good access to continuous quality weather data, results from controlled slide action in given runs with well documented aspects and slope angles, etc. Similar to the snow pit, even if it worked pretty well it would a dangerous tool. I still think there's plenty of merit to snow science and that kind of tool would be useful if it had access to enormous amounts of data.
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01-12-2020, 08:12 PM #30Gel-powered Tech bindings
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I remember that passage very well!
I found that statement when I first read it to be both motivating and daunting.
But after I went through the experience of skiing extensively in three different regions (Mt W, Tahoe, Eastern Sierra) that went from non-traditional avy bulletins to standard (I'll leave out the details unless anyone is curious), I found Tremper's statement kind of odd since a standard avy bulletin should be providing those updates for you.
(I still experience it in the PNW in late spring and early summer, but pretty simply to monitor conditions for any new snow, which is really all that matters by then.)
I've always wondering whether something like that was possible!
With enough resources, certainly would be, just like meteorological models.
I mean, an avalanche danger rose should be trivial to general as compared to a NOAA hourly weather graph.
Even at a more casual level, a simple model would be helpful for a professional avy forecaster to review, call b.s. on some findings, but then think through exactly *why* the model is wrong, exactly *what* factors it is missing, etc.
Or with the weather, multiple models would be run, then the fx'er would choose the model that seems to provide the best fit for the current patterns.Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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01-15-2020, 01:15 AM #31
Wall of White by Jennifer Woodlief, about the 1982 Alpine Meadows avalanche that killed 7 people in a base building and the parking lot. Anna Conrad survived being buried for 5 days in a space under a tipped over locker.
Buried, by Ken Wylie, about the 2003 Revelstoke avalanche. Wylie was the assistant guide of the group. We lost a good friend in that slide.
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01-15-2020, 04:03 PM #32
There's a woman who lives in Nevada City who was in that group. She's a hospice nurse and took care of my grandpa when he died in 2015. We chatted about it a bit when she was there checking on him. Can't remember the name. Super great woman (as most hospice people are).
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01-15-2020, 11:42 PM #33
i spoke to her ^^ a few years ago. That incident weighs heavy on her. I'm guessing old goat may know her.
I've talked to two that patrolled alpine meadows on that fateful day. One, who was lead instructor of an avi class that I took, did not want to talk about the alpine meadowd incident. The other will very openly discuss it. The second says that he will never forget the feeling of when a probe gets a positive strike.
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01-16-2020, 09:02 AM #34
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01-16-2020, 06:41 PM #35
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01-24-2020, 11:14 AM #36Registered User
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Ended up ordering Snow Sense and Avalanche Essentials. Seems like popular choices and a good starting spot. Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll keep referring back to this on future reads.
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01-26-2020, 10:36 PM #37
This is being worked on: https://arc.lib.montana.edu/snow-sci...em.php?id=2448
and https://arc.lib.montana.edu/snow-sci...em.php?id=2722
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01-27-2020, 02:08 PM #38Registered User
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Different from a book but I'm quietly going to mention the swiss SLF site - https://www.slf.ch/en/avalanche-bulletin-and-snow-situation/about-the-avalanche-bulletin/interpretation-guide.html - which has a wealth of information on avalanches. Some of it not too easy to navigate around and (obvs) sometimes somewhat Swiss focused. I found it more useful after reading the Tremper book though. I'm sure other examples are available.
I was recommended the Tremper book and read it regularly. As I used to be a geologist there is a lot of cross over in concepts with snow science.
I think the guys above are right though that without full-on tuition the biggest takeaways are to read and work out how the avalanche forecast applies to your plans and then make sure to keep an eye on terrain above and below you. Can I honestly make an assessment of the stability of a slope? No, If it did slide, could I survive? Yes...
This gets easier if you live in resort but the next thing is to work out ways of tracking the snowpack when you're doing your day job. I drive transfers so, for example, Is it still icy n the corner that always melts first, am I being blown off the road to the left or the right - how did that translate into the mountains last time? etc.
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01-29-2020, 05:02 PM #39Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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01-30-2020, 12:54 PM #40Registered User
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I love this book...doesn't get much better for calling out the Mountain Tribe for all their weird ego bullshit.
Autonomy, Mastery, and Purpose in the Avalanche Patch by Brue Kay
https://avalanchepatch.com/
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01-31-2020, 01:59 AM #41
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01-31-2020, 06:36 PM #42
Please don't forget about our erstwhile journal The Avalanche Review.
https://www.americanavalancheassociation.org/tar
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02-01-2020, 07:59 AM #43
^^^ Some of the best current affairs on the subject available.
I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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09-19-2020, 02:42 AM #44
Avalanche Books
here’s a copy for about $80 shipped to US from the UK
https://biblio.com.au/book/avalanche...m/d/1028852108
this is another one you want
Last edited by ~mikey b; 09-29-2020 at 02:25 PM.
I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.
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09-19-2020, 08:10 AM #45
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09-19-2020, 08:55 AM #46Registered User
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These are the two best "text books," on snow and avalanches.
"True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"
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09-29-2020, 02:26 PM #47
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09-29-2020, 03:10 PM #48
and I came across this - not so easy to find
Atwater's USDA FS Avalanche Handbook
I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.
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10-13-2020, 02:12 PM #49
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10-14-2020, 06:23 PM #50
Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain
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