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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Unicorn touring ski

    So,
    I'm a bit frustrated with available touring ski options. While touring skis have gotten to the point of having great performance and flex characteristics for their often unbelievable weight, the camber profiles of sub 105 waisted skis are really lagging behind their alpine counterparts. I live in Western Wyoming, and while we often get powder that makes it worth skiing my VTA 108s, we just as often have to deal with crusts, hardback, and variable snow. I'd really like a 95-98mm waisted ski, with tip rocker and a relatively flat camber/subtle reverse. I think this would still skin well, and would allow these skis to perform better in the variable conditions often encountered while touring. Anyone aware of such a ski in the 1300-1500gm range? Everything I've seen/skied has a slight tip rocker, but overall just isn't that great in grabby conditions. After skiing narrower reverse camber skis at the resorts, I'm kind of sold on this shape.
    Balls.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    Mid-tomahawk
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    379
    4Frnt Raven is the closest thing I can think of, but it's a little wider and heavier than you're talking. Black Crows Daemon is the skinniest reverse camber ski that comes to mind, but it's a bunch heavier too.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    I also would love that exact ski. Closest I've found is the Down LD102 / LD90. They are not reverse, but the camber is pretty minimal. Good tip rocker, long radius, good in variable stuff. There's the 4FRNT Raven but it's wider/heavier and they seem to have added a good bit of tip/tail rocker. My old 179cm PMGear Carbon Bros had very minimal camber, but I broke one in half, and they don't make them anymore.

    I'd loooooove a Black Crows Daemon in a tour layup ~1400g... I don't know of anyone else making anything like this.

    I'd even like a ~85-90mm subtle reverse touring ski. For all of these, I'd rather a long radius a la the Downs...

    edit: ^ heh

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    northern BC
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    I like lots of early rise/ a bit of camber/ flat tail

    I'm so over 5 point or reverse camber
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    FR&CH
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    The Volkl BMT 94 (NOT 90) is what youíre looking for. Same profile as the flat Mantra, 1450g in a 176.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2011
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    Winthrop, WA. Methow valley
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    The ski you are describing is the tragically departed Volkl BMT94. It does exactly the things you described well and is stunningly good when it gets deep, even with those of us who are north of 200lb. The subtle reverse camber just kicks ass when conditions get weird.

    We should all start nagging Volkl to bring that one back in a 94-100mm package. Besides the obvious waist width it's actually a little different ski than the 109. The 109 and 122 skied a lot more similarly than the 109 and 94. The 94 is stiffer, more directional (yet still loose when asked) and much stronger on edge. Best sub-100mm touring ski ever in my book.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuntmanbo View Post
    The Volkl BMT 94 (NOT 90) is what you’re looking for. Same profile as the flat Mantra, 1450g in a 176.
    do they still make this in full reverse? I thought the newer versions were cambered again...

  8. #8
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    Correct the new ones are cambered.
    Well flat camber is not optimal for touring on steep hard snow, traction is a bit lacking.
    I just sold my BMT 94 and bought the Mantra V Werks. Weíll see. Same final weight as Iím switching the Ions for ATK Crests.
    The titanal band should be nice. The Mantra VW has only 1 to 2mm of camber per ski, so not too much cambered, unlike for exemple the Navis FB, ZG 105, etc.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Simi Valley, CA
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    Other than being heavier than desired, the Mantra VW sounds pretty close to what you're looking for. You do get some additional width for the extra weight, compared to the 94 anyway. Might be a nice blend of the VTA108 and the BMT94.
    Last edited by 1000-oaks; 12-30-2019 at 03:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    NY
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    You guys are literally describing my exact thought process leading up to this thread. I was surprised to see the BMT had camber now, as I thought I remembered it being flat/reverse. Is it just the 2019/2020 that has camber?

    Agree all other skis mentioned fit the bill, except in regards to weight. The Black Crows Daemon/reverse camber Mantra are what got me thinking of this. If Black Crows could do a daemon freebird at 1400ish gm, I'd be sold. I currently am skiing a zero 95 which is pretty beat into the ground, and almost flat. They have a great flex pattern/stiffness for the weight. If only they would make that ski reverse..
    Balls.

  11. #11
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    Apr 2006
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    Wasatch
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    Black crows Camox on STP. I love mine. Skis great all mountain and some pow


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16

    2018/2019 (24/32)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Dooley View Post
    You guys are literally describing my exact thought process leading up to this thread. I was surprised to see the BMT had camber now, as I thought I remembered it being flat/reverse. Is it just the 2019/2020 that has camber?
    The BMT 94 (2015 => 2017) was flat.
    It's successor, the BMT 90 (2018 and up) has camber.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    land of the free
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    I was hoping to find touring ski recommendations for my unicorn
    ďLife has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.Ē
    Hunter S. Thompson

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyturn View Post
    Black crows Camox on STP. I love mine. Skis great all mountain and some pow
    Not really flat/low camber though.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Dooley View Post
    Agree all other skis mentioned fit the bill, except in regards to weight. The Black Crows Daemon/reverse camber Mantra are what got me thinking of this. If Black Crows could do a daemon freebird at 1400ish gm, I'd be sold. I currently am skiing a zero 95 which is pretty beat into the ground, and almost flat. They have a great flex pattern/stiffness for the weight. If only they would make that ski reverse..
    Well maybe just look for a BMT 94 in a good state (you can still find some new in EU for 500€ in a 186).

  16. #16
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    I was hoping to find touring ski recommendations for my unicorn
    https://www.thebeaverton.com/2019/12...al-apparently/
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Dooley View Post
    Agree all other skis mentioned fit the bill, except in regards to weight. The Black Crows Daemon/reverse camber Mantra are what got me thinking of this. If Black Crows could do a daemon freebird at 1400ish gm, I'd be sold. I currently am skiing a zero 95 which is pretty beat into the ground, and almost flat. They have a great flex pattern/stiffness for the weight. If only they would make that ski reverse..
    I wonder if there's enough folks to convince Down to do a reverse camber run of LD90s or LD102s. Those skis are light, stiff, and awesome in variable already... and Down is small enough, and has a presence here. I'd definitely get in on that.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
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    5,593
    My 183 Camox freebird is 1500g. But yes has camber and thatís ok with me.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16

    2018/2019 (24/32)

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    317
    Wider than you’re looking for, likely but Black Crows is rumored to bring the Corvus flat with early-rise tip to their Corvus Freebird next year. would t be surprised if they bring in their weight-savings construction that makes the Camox Freebird so much lighter than before.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Summit Park UT
    Posts
    883
    G3 Seekr? I have the G3 Synapse 109, which I love, and are fully rockered. They've now replaced them with the Seekr (110 and 100) which seem about the same except have a bit of camber under foot. My Synapses are almost dead, eyeing these for replacements.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    379
    Women’s version of the Daemon comes in around 1750gm for the 170, probably not light enough for what you wanted though.

    I have looked for a used pair of 176cm BMT 94s for the last few years and haven’t found any.

    Just bought a pair of Line Vision 98s in a 179 with Xenics. They have almost no positive camber underfoot, nice amount of tip and tail rocker. 1760 gm for ski and Xenic (no brakes). Mount point of around -5.5cm from TC looks money too.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Livingston, MT
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    1,195
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    The ski you are describing is the tragically departed Volkl BMT94. It does exactly the things you described well and is stunningly good when it gets deep, even with those of us who are north of 200lb. The subtle reverse camber just kicks ass when conditions get weird.

    We should all start nagging Volkl to bring that one back in a 94-100mm package. Besides the obvious waist width it's actually a little different ski than the 109. The 109 and 122 skied a lot more similarly than the 109 and 94. The 94 is stiffer, more directional (yet still loose when asked) and much stronger on edge. Best sub-100mm touring ski ever in my book.
    Quoted for truth.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    873
    The Dynafit Beast 98s camber is very very minimal. Damn near flat. Havenít skied it but just looked at a pair yesterday

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,618
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    I also would love that exact ski. Closest I've found is the Down LD102 / LD90. They are not reverse, but the camber is pretty minimal. Good tip rocker, long radius, good in variable stuff. There's the 4FRNT Raven but it's wider/heavier and they seem to have added a good bit of tip/tail rocker. My old 179cm PMGear Carbon Bros had very minimal camber, but I broke one in half, and they don't make them anymore.

    I'd loooooove a Black Crows Daemon in a tour layup ~1400g... I don't know of anyone else making anything like this.

    I'd even like a ~85-90mm subtle reverse touring ski. For all of these, I'd rather a long radius a la the Downs...

    edit: ^ heh
    Can you elaborate on the long radius? The longest radius I've been on is 26m. It seems as if the big advantage is less hooky behavior in funky snow. Others say claim that in steep, icy stretches, you get better edge purchase. This one, I have trouble believing.

    I realize that turn radius has little to do with how quickly you can turn a ski with a modern design. I've been wrestling between the LD 102s and CD 104Ls because of this - in terms of being able to navigate tight spaces.

    My reference is the CD 104 (not the "L"). The ski can feel a bit short in harder snow (squirrely tip), but apart from that, it's well-mannered and handles variable snow quite well and is plenty quick. I'd give up a bit of quickness (especially in return for handling bad snow), but not too much.

    Thanks!

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    The ski you are describing is the tragically departed Volkl BMT94. It does exactly the things you described well and is stunningly good when it gets deep, even with those of us who are north of 200lb. The subtle reverse camber just kicks ass when conditions get weird.

    We should all start nagging Volkl to bring that one back in a 94-100mm package. Besides the obvious waist width it's actually a little different ski than the 109. The 109 and 122 skied a lot more similarly than the 109 and 94. The 94 is stiffer, more directional (yet still loose when asked) and much stronger on edge. Best sub-100mm touring ski ever in my book.
    This. Ended up selling my old ones this autum after finding a new pair in the back of a store. It's the one model that I just can't find a better alternative for. Have had it in the quiver since they came out - probably 50 days of touring on them,

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Dooley View Post
    You guys are literally describing my exact thought process leading up to this thread. I was surprised to see the BMT had camber now, as I thought I remembered it being flat/reverse. Is it just the 2019/2020 that has camber?

    Agree all other skis mentioned fit the bill, except in regards to weight. The Black Crows Daemon/reverse camber Mantra are what got me thinking of this. If Black Crows could do a daemon freebird at 1400ish gm, I'd be sold. I currently am skiing a zero 95 which is pretty beat into the ground, and almost flat. They have a great flex pattern/stiffness for the weight. If only they would make that ski reverse..
    Every Freebird-version I've ever fondled has been a noodle compared to their non-freebird cousins.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuntmanbo View Post
    Well maybe just look for a BMT 94 in a good state (you can still find some new in EU for 500€ in a 186).
    https://www.sport-bittl.com/en/voelk...yABEgJZcfD_BwE

    Looks like they'll subtract VAT

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