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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    South of 49
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    Anything with Black Crows in the name seems to be endowed with Pixie Fairy Dust.
    Why not buy a pair and post
    yet another review or
    retarded question
    in tech.
    jong.
    [KURTZ] Hinterstoisser, you heavy bastard.
    [HINTERSTOISSER] You need to do more push-ups, Kurtz.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,744
    Another option: make your own unicorn. Find a used el cheapo ski closest to what u want and just rebend the rocker profile into what u want.

    To wit: customized circa 2002/3ish Rossignol B3 Bandits. Eliminated the underfoot camber and bent in a good, long tip rocker and shorter section of slight tail rocker. Both contact points equidistant from boot center..all optimized for sand and gravel skiing and tweaked to perfection. Also tested on snow and they ski way better than stock; for groomers; loose and slarvy if desired or locked in and rail g.s. turns. Pow turns also improved; pivoty, poppy, better rebound and more centered balance point.

    Somewhere on tech talk there's a few 'how to' threads. In my case, the Rossi's didn't need any extravagant procedures; with the foam core and alu layer, they bent...and rebent...and rebent again with further tweaking quite easily simply by shoving tips/tails under a door and reefing up on the ski.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Master of mediocrity.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
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    11,073
    I haz unicorns on all my touring skis
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That one's from my digit drew crew
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  4. #29
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    Apr 2005
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    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
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    11,073
    Why does the uploaded suckClick image for larger version. 

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    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    4,744
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyski View Post
    The Dynafit Beast 98s camber is very very minimal. Damn near flat. Haven’t skied it but just looked at a pair yesterday
    Hrrrmmm. I thought these were much heavier, 1530g in a 177 is pretty tempting actually. I might go fondle a pair...

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Can you elaborate on the long radius? The longest radius I've been on is 26m. It seems as if the big advantage is less hooky behavior in funky snow. Others say claim that in steep, icy stretches, you get better edge purchase. This one, I have trouble believing.

    I realize that turn radius has little to do with how quickly you can turn a ski with a modern design. I've been wrestling between the LD 102s and CD 104Ls because of this - in terms of being able to navigate tight spaces.

    My reference is the CD 104 (not the "L"). The ski can feel a bit short in harder snow (squirrely tip), but apart from that, it's well-mannered and handles variable snow quite well and is plenty quick. I'd give up a bit of quickness (especially in return for handling bad snow), but not too much.
    I don't think I buy the thing about edge hold either tbh, but they're much less funky in bad snow, which is the main thing for me. I don't ski them inbounds ever, so I don't care about carving or whatever, and I can turn them fine myself in pow. Long radius, low tail splay, tip rocker means easy release in weird funky wind-fucked snow, crusts, etc, at least in my experience. I found the same thing with my 32m radius PMGear Bros, my 41m radius CD102L, and my current 29m radius LD90s. My 18 or 19m radius Movement Response-X (which I unreservedly love and is basically the perfect ultralight touring ski aside from this) gets caught up in funky snow, so I usually only ski them when I am sure it's gonna be pow or corn.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    323
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Can you elaborate on the long radius? The longest radius I've been on is 26m. It seems as if the big advantage is less hooky behavior in funky snow. Others say claim that in steep, icy stretches, you get better edge purchase. This one, I have trouble believing.

    I realize that turn radius has little to do with how quickly you can turn a ski with a modern design. I've been wrestling between the LD 102s and CD 104Ls because of this - in terms of being able to navigate tight spaces.

    My reference is the CD 104 (not the "L"). The ski can feel a bit short in harder snow (squirrely tip), but apart from that, it's well-mannered and handles variable snow quite well and is plenty quick. I'd give up a bit of quickness (especially in return for handling bad snow), but not too much.

    Thanks!

    ... Thom
    I've only got one ski in my quiver – for low tide resort days – under 26m radius at this point, having figured out by now what I like. I think you've got it exactly right. I don't buy the stronger edge hold thing either, but long radii (especially when combined with not much tip taper) makes for a ski that tracks way better in chunky, weird snow, and with modern rocker profiles you can still release it and turn without having to lean on the sidecut to bring the ski into a full carve.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    5,774
    I want this ski too. Basically, I wish I could take the V-werks Katana, make it 100ish in the waist and weigh 1400g. In a 182-184 please.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    voting in seattle
    Posts
    4,280
    Dynafit Beast 98
    Volkl Mantra V-Werks
    Volkl BMT 94 (as mentioned)

    4FRNT Raven - maybe the best variable condition backcountry ski IMO.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,441
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    Hrrrmmm. I thought these were much heavier, 1530g in a 177 is pretty tempting actually. I might go fondle a pair...



    I don't think I buy the thing about edge hold either tbh, but they're much less funky in bad snow, which is the main thing for me. I don't ski them inbounds ever, so I don't care about carving or whatever, and I can turn them fine myself in pow. Long radius, low tail splay, tip rocker means easy release in weird funky wind-fucked snow, crusts, etc, at least in my experience. I found the same thing with my 32m radius PMGear Bros, my 41m radius CD102L, and my current 29m radius LD90s. My 18 or 19m radius Movement Response-X (which I unreservedly love and is basically the perfect ultralight touring ski aside from this) gets caught up in funky snow, so I usually only ski them when I am sure it's gonna be pow or corn.
    Thanks! You have me leaning toward the LD 102 over the CD 104L. Yeah, carving is not an issue, but navigating tight, icy places in the Spring is. It sounds like a toss-up for me between an LD 102 and perhaps a ZG-105. I have time.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    392
    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    Another option: make your own unicorn. Find a used el cheapo ski closest to what u want and just rebend the rocker profile into what u want.

    To wit: customized circa 2002/3ish Rossignol B3 Bandits. Eliminated the underfoot camber and bent in a good, long tip rocker and shorter section of slight tail rocker. Both contact points equidistant from boot center..all optimized for sand and gravel skiing and tweaked to perfection. Also tested on snow and they ski way better than stock; for groomers; loose and slarvy if desired or locked in and rail g.s. turns. Pow turns also improved; pivoty, poppy, better rebound and more centered balance point.

    Somewhere on tech talk there's a few 'how to' threads. In my case, the Rossi's didn't need any extravagant procedures; with the foam core and alu layer, they bent...and rebent...and rebent again with further tweaking quite easily simply by shoving tips/tails under a door and reefing up on the ski.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1120126.jpg 
Views:	135 
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ID:	308480
    I actually hit the ZeroGs with a heat gun, and a dowel, and extended the rocker a little ways back. They're a little better for sure. I'm a bit hesitant to push it further, as the last thing I want is to be out in the middle of nowhere with a broken ski.
    Balls.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    623
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Dooley View Post
    I actually hit the ZeroGs with a heat gun, and a dowel, and extended the rocker a little ways back. They're a little better for sure. I'm a bit hesitant to push it further, as the last thing I want is to be out in the middle of nowhere with a broken ski.
    To this point, donít rule out the ZeroG 85s. Mine came with essentially zero camber and therefore handle a bit of soft snow much better than expected. Iím 5í11Ē, 160lbs on the 171s as a mountaineering ski and had no issue skiing 2-4 inches of hot pow, albeit with a 25mph speed limit.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
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    3,833
    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeze View Post
    To this point, donít rule out the ZeroG 85s. Mine came with essentially zero camber and therefore handle a bit of soft snow much better than expected. Iím 5í11Ē, 160lbs on the 171s as a mountaineering ski and had no issue skiing 2-4 inches of hot pow, albeit with a 25mph speed limit.
    Do you have a pic to show this?

    It's becoming a little frustrating to me that skis are leaving any factory with an unpredictable rocker profile. Especially when you're a boutique maker you need to assume a lot of people are buying the ski for that unique rocker profile... but more than one manufacturer are letting miss-pressed skis leave the factory and they buyer doesn't know what they're getting. See the thread on the corvus for reference.

    Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    7,761
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    Why does the uploaded suckClick image for larger version. 

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    Unicorns are cool.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,296
    Quote Originally Posted by DGamms View Post
    Women’s version of the Daemon comes in around 1750gm for the 170, probably not light enough for what you wanted though.

    I have looked for a used pair of 176cm BMT 94s for the last few years and haven’t found any.

    Just bought a pair of Line Vision 98s in a 179 with Xenics. They have almost no positive camber underfoot, nice amount of tip and tail rocker. 1760 gm for ski and Xenic (no brakes). Mount point of around -5.5cm from TC looks money too.
    i want this ski. i have my xenics on my ravens, but really want visions instead. cant decide 98 or 108. im 6'4 210 and even in long sizes never get the float i want out of 100mm skis
    The Charmed app lets you tinder for your friends

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    364
    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    i want this ski. i have my xenics on my ravens, but really want visions instead. cant decide 98 or 108. im 6'4 210 and even in long sizes never get the float i want out of 100mm skis
    You are a big boy! Seems like the 189cm Vision 108 might be the better call if you are looking for float. Would it be part of a bigger touring quiver or your only touring ski?

    I toured my 179cm Vision 98s with Xenics at PC before the lifts were spinning today. As predicted, a joy to skin uphill. Downhill, they did well for their weight class. Calm and predictable, good damping, easy to carve or smear, easy to ski forward or centered. Granted it was not real backcountry touring conditions. But I would say they don’t give up much downhill performance vs 184 Ravens on smoother, firmer 2D snow, while being 300gm lighter.

    Time will tell if they do as well as the Ravens in funky 3D backcountry snow.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    78į 41′ 0″ N, 16į 24′ 0″ E
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    This thread has my attention.

    If we have the resources to do something like this, it'll be on the 104/104L.

    Pics of the old rev camber CD6. Imagining something similar. Name:  147205.jpg
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    Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
    simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    368
    Quote Originally Posted by DGamms View Post
    You are a big boy! Seems like the 189cm Vision 108 might be the better call if you are looking for float. Would it be part of a bigger touring quiver or your only touring ski?

    I toured my 179cm Vision 98s with Xenics at PC before the lifts were spinning today. As predicted, a joy to skin uphill. Downhill, they did well for their weight class. Calm and predictable, good damping, easy to carve or smear, easy to ski forward or centered. Granted it was not real backcountry touring conditions. But I would say they donít give up much downhill performance vs 184 Ravens on smoother, firmer 2D snow, while being 300gm lighter.

    Time will tell if they do as well as the Ravens in funky 3D backcountry snow.
    Thinking of going for the vision 98 as well, 6'1", 165 lbs. Could I get away with the 179 and a light boot? Or is the ski easy enough to ski to get a 186 for tooring only? Haven't had a chance to see the skis in person.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Squaw, CA-Girdwood, AK
    Posts
    259
    Dynastar Mythic is a nice option, rocker tip, camber, flat tail.
    "He thinks the carpet pissers did this?"

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    392

    Unicorn touring ski

    Quote Originally Posted by SiSt View Post
    This thread has my attention.

    If we have the resources to do something like this, it'll be on the 104/104L.

    Pics of the old rev camber CD6. Imagining something similar. Name:  147205.jpg
Views: 455
Size:  44.0 KBName:  147206.jpg
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Size:  36.1 KB

    Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
    Weight/specs on the 104L are impressive. Iíd be interested. That said, I still think a 95ish waisted ski with a similar profile would be a real hit.




    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Last edited by Skip Dooley; 01-04-2020 at 05:10 PM.
    Balls.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    WA
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    867
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Dooley View Post
    Weight/specs on the 104L are impressive. Iíd be interested. That said, I still think a 95ish waisted ski with a similar profile would be a real hit.




    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Yeah, itís a flat camber LD90 (ideally 95, but close enough) with a bit less tip rocker that it sounds like folks are sniffing around. If youíre up to 104 youíre in Raven/Dynafit Beast/BMT 109 territory - there are options already.

  21. #46
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    Sep 2006
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    Rossland BC
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  22. #47
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    Nov 2014
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    SLC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyski View Post
    Yeah, itís a flat camber LD90 (ideally 95, but close enough) with a bit less tip rocker that it sounds like folks are sniffing around. If youíre up to 104 youíre in Raven/Dynafit Beast/BMT 109 territory - there are options already.
    The LD90 could be soooooo easily flat... itís already almost flat and almost the perfect ski. That said Iíd buy the flat camber 104 because Down skis are outstanding... but flattening the LD90 for a few pressings would certainly pique my interest.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    NY
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    392
    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    Those look pretty awesome. Anyone have experience on them, or know where to get them? On first glance, uber-euro, probably no stateside distribution?
    Balls.

  24. #49
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    Sep 2010
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    WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    The 18m radius in the 176 make it more cheap seats in that ballpark than the front row.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Sonoma & Truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    4FRNT Raven - maybe the best variable condition backcountry ski IMO.
    This is what I have for this purpose. Easy to pivot on shit / frozen snow as you make it back to the trailhead. A little wider and heavier (not much) than the OP requested, but it's pretty close.

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