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  1. #151
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Fresh Lake City
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    3,372
    Quote Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud View Post
    IF YOU ARE SKINNING UP A RESORT BOUNDARY AREA YOU SHOULD FUCKING PAY!!

    It's a controlled area. You should be at the mercy of the resort operator. Don't care if it is USFS or private. You're entering a controlled area that cost lots of $$$$ to maintain.

    I wish resorts would just ban in-bounds uphill skiing from the base area.

    I can't tell you how many times I've been skiing the side of a trail in CO (going downhill) to run in to some backcountry wannabe gaper skinning uphill on the side of a DOWNHILL ski run.

    Imagine if the Keystone Bike Park DH trails were open to uphill biking? It's almost the same thing that some of these uphill dorks are doing.
    Take a chill pill. Jesus. It's exactly like biking, I can bike up the trails at most ski areas for free, sure there's downhill only trails, but most ski areas grant free access to the trails in their boundaries whether on private or public lands. (Esp xc trails)

    It should be the same with skiing. If the resort does avy control then I get it, but many resorts could grant access to their runs or restrict people to where they don't do avy control. It's good for the sport.

    And while I don't often skin up ski resorts once they are in operation, I do it on occasion and it's a blast! I also have friends and family that don't feel comfortable skiing in the backcountry at all times and the opportunity to go ski before/after work or just get some fitness is much appreciated.

    Also if you have trouble avoiding someone slowly walking up the side of a blue or green ski run, you may wanna work on your technique a little and then maybe the joy of the uphill will be revealed to you.

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    11,663
    Where's the best place to skin? Common sense would say the edge of the trail so as not to obstruct downhill skiers, but IME the fastest downhill skiers often hug the edge of the runs because that's where the gapers are not. I taught my kids to allow room between them and the edge of the run to give a faster skier an out on either side of them Also, harder to see skinners against the trees. We don't want skinners in the trees--that's the best snow and we don't want it cut up by a skin track.

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    on the banks of Fish Creek
    Posts
    1,874
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Where's the best place to skin?
    Depends on what you’re trying to skin, really....I find Tanzania to really be the best place to skin a hippo. Are you looking to skin a hippo?




    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #154
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    20,435
    How the fuck is it good for the sport?
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    12,826
    RE: Bridger, No uphill traffic allowed during the operational season.

    There are undesignated routes on public land that will get you past the operational boundary.

    RE:
    How the fuck is it good for the sport?
    Face Palm.
    Ooof!

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    342
    I rather have some pistesinners on the slopes, then one of them putting there track in a nice chute or bowl in the sidecountry.... imagen that!

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    7,760
    Where’s the best place to skin? The backcountry, duh.

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cruzing
    Posts
    9,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs View Post
    I think your question is rhetoric, but I still want to answer it.
    Sidecountry = access the sidecountry from the resort and returning back to the resort after using the sidecountry. Or access from the resort and and then descending the sidecountry to the valley floor/base. Possible rescue from the resources of the ski resort is the major factor in the Sidecountry definition.
    Backcountry = access the backcountry from a remote location not associated/attached to a resort. Or use a resort to access the an area that requires more effort/distance to leave the resort's adjacent property. Backcountry can still return home back into the resort from the backcountry, but if you required assistance/rescue while in the backcountry, it would not be the resources of the resort that organize the rescue.
    Decent, but a lot of the patrol at the resort I ski are also SAR, so if someone needs rescue in the back country, then it does comes from he resort in some manner. Those patrollers need to leave.

    You can also access side country from outside the resort, if you are skinning adjacent to resort.

    I think of side country as lift assist and in an adjacent basin. My "sidecountry" ski is also my rock skis. Heavy and with frame bindings. Skis great inbounds and can do short tours with them, or lift assist runs just outside the resort. They would be a beast to tour on daily (which I did at a younger age) or on long backcountry tours with distances to cover.

    Backcountry is remote; not adjacent to a resort.

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cruzing
    Posts
    9,319
    Its good for the sport of skinning. Uphill traffic at downhill resorts will sell more randomizes gear. Duh.

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In a parallel universe
    Posts
    4,699

    RESORT UPHILL SKIING — A RIGHT OR PRIVILEGE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    Backcountry is remote; not adjacent to a resort.
    I think this depends entirely upon where you ski. I can think of several instances in Washington where backcountry is directly adjacent and accessible from ski area side country. We might be splitting hairs here tho.

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bethel, Maine
    Posts
    663
    Quote Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud View Post
    IF YOU ARE SKINNING UP A RESORT BOUNDARY AREA YOU SHOULD FUCKING PAY!!

    It's a controlled area. You should be at the mercy of the resort operator. Don't care if it is USFS or private. You're entering a controlled area that cost lots of $$$$ to maintain.
    .
    When it's federal or state-owned land, or even land leased from another private landholder, the terms of the lease or special-use permit matter. If those terms specifically allow for non-motorized recreation access, or hunting access, or whatever other sort of access to the permit/leasehold, then the leasee (the ski area operator) needs to deal with that, or negotiate a lease that doesn't include those terms. It's not any different than someone leasing a woodlot to forestry company but requiring in the lease that certain hiking trails on the lot be left alone, or that logging operations cease during rifle season for the benefit of those seeking venison.

    On private land, it's up to the landowner, and if that landowner is also the ski-area operator, they get to pick the rules.

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    the big dirty
    Posts
    696
    https://mtnath.com/skimo-in-resort/?...J-SmxubAXavMlw

    It's a thing. When I have a family, I'm going to book my ski vacations at a place that allows uphilling.

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,975
    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    How the fuck is it good for the sport?
    More people skiing is more people skiing so how does one separate them from their money when they are there might be a good question ?

    locally the policy has been all over the map in the last 15yrs, people have come, people have gone , up hilling has been allowed, uphilling has been not allowed, its been ignored by some staff, ski hill cops have been ignored, ski hill cops have lost their jobs, the resort has allowed sucessful all night 24 hr rando events for maybe 5 years in a row ( before people realized it wasnt much fun ) the resort has allowed an inbounds rando race,

    butt thru it all one thing has remained the same





    nobody has ever got hurt
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    4,721
    ^ I help organize an inbounds (after-hours, inbounds but not open at that time terrain, with cooperation from the resort) Tuesday night "skimo race" series here in UT, which has been going on a lot longer than my involvement in it. Last season we averaged about 100 participants per race, with I think 8 races. The first (and so far only) race this season we had 158 in attendance, and fwiw probably less than 20% were in spandex or with rando gear... I talked to a lady with dukes on heavy ass lib tech alpine skis, a couple splitboarders, etc. Never had an incident yet, knock on wood, though we do have insurance and waivers and all that stuff. After the race we bring all 100++ folks into the lodge open for night skiing and tell people to buy beers, snacks, etc to support our gracious hosts. I think they do ok on us tbh. We also park away from where any night skiing patrons would be parking, to minimize impact etc.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    20,435
    Well, alright
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,975
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    ^ I help organize an inbounds (after-hours, inbounds but not open at that time terrain, with cooperation from the resort) Tuesday night "skimo race" series here in UT, which has been going on a lot longer than my involvement in it. Last season we averaged about 100 participants per race, with I think 8 races. The first (and so far only) race this season we had 158 in attendance, and fwiw probably less than 20% were in spandex or with rando gear... I talked to a lady with dukes on heavy ass lib tech alpine skis, a couple splitboarders, etc. Never had an incident yet, knock on wood, though we do have insurance and waivers and all that stuff. After the race we bring all 100++ folks into the lodge open for night skiing and tell people to buy beers, snacks, etc to support our gracious hosts. I think they do ok on us tbh. We also park away from where any night skiing patrons would be parking, to minimize impact etc.
    well there ya go ^^

    the sanctioned events locally all had waivers signed but no body ever got hurt

    even the 24 hr event, during which ever one ( excpet the solo guys ) was drinking beer and skiing by headlamp

    at midnight there was that impromptu torchlight parade but with roman candles ... try not to hit anyone eh



    if people can't walk a few extra yards or meters in the car park they should consider joining a book club or knitting group
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    342
    Quote Originally Posted by ACH View Post
    We might be splitting hairs here tho.
    Thats why we are here? Aint we?
    LIVE IS NOT A CHAIRLIFT

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cruzing
    Posts
    9,319
    Quote Originally Posted by ACH View Post
    I think this depends entirely upon where you ski. I can think of several instances in Washington where backcountry is directly adjacent and accessible from ski area side country. We might be splitting hairs here tho.
    Agreed.

    At Crystal, I would say the zone directly behind the gondola top is backcountry, while the areas south of the Throne are side country. Don’t they do some control work in their sidecountry?

    I sometimes consider road side attractions sidecountry even tho they are not near a resort, they may be close to civilization.

    Hairs.

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
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    3,919
    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    Don’t they do some control work in their sidecountry?
    The only time a patrol would do control work in "sidecountry" is when it could potentially avalanche into their terrain. Otherwise there are potential legal risks with doing such. Which is why no one i've ever met that teaches avalanche classes calls it sidecountry. it's all backcountry.

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Church of the Nifty Blue Chrysler
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    5,106
    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    The only time a patrol would do control work in "sidecountry" is when it could potentially avalanche into their terrain. Otherwise there are potential legal risks with doing such. Which is why no one i've ever met that teaches avalanche classes calls it sidecountry. it's all backcountry.
    Washington ski areas seem to utilize those terms somewhat differently, as ACH alluded to earlier. I still don't fully understand some of the terrain management practices I see out here, so I'll let someone more knowledgeable than myself clarify.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  21. #171
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    here and there
    Posts
    15,937
    I need me sum hippo skins.
    watch out for snakes

  22. #172
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,975
    sometimes your posts flay me SB
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #173
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In a parallel universe
    Posts
    4,699
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    ^ I help organize an inbounds (after-hours, inbounds but not open at that time terrain, with cooperation from the resort) Tuesday night "skimo race" series here in UT, which has been going on a lot longer than my involvement in it. Last season we averaged about 100 participants per race, with I think 8 races. The first (and so far only) race this season we had 158 in attendance, and fwiw probably less than 20% were in spandex or with rando gear... I talked to a lady with dukes on heavy ass lib tech alpine skis, a couple splitboarders, etc. Never had an incident yet, knock on wood, though we do have insurance and waivers and all that stuff. After the race we bring all 100++ folks into the lodge open for night skiing and tell people to buy beers, snacks, etc to support our gracious hosts. I think they do ok on us tbh. We also park away from where any night skiing patrons would be parking, to minimize impact etc.
    Hell yeah, this is doing it right!
    We have a similar league (if you can call it that) on the Pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by nordekette View Post
    Thats why we are here? Aint we?
    Fair point

    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    Agreed.

    At Crystal, I would say the zone directly behind the gondola top is backcountry, while the areas south of the Throne are side country. Don’t they do some control work in their sidecountry?

    Well, yes I suppose.
    I guess my point is, that there are back country areas that are accessable via the side country that is accessable through gates.

    Hairs.
    AFAIK, Alpental, Baker and Steven's also have BC adjacent to side country.

    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    The only time a patrol would do control work in "sidecountry" is when it could potentially avalanche into their terrain. Otherwise there are potential legal risks with doing such. Which is why no one i've ever met that teaches avalanche classes calls it sidecountry. it's all backcountry.
    A little different here.
    Speaking for Alpental specifically because this is where i spend the lions share of my time... They routinely do control work in the side country (mostly cornice mitigation) but I've seen them also ski cut and toss charges after a big storm too, and none (or very few) of these aspects would run out through inbounds terrain. Sidecountry at Alpental is part of their SUP.

    Quote Originally Posted by SB View Post
    I need me sum hippo skins.
    Heh, well played sir.

  24. #174
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    342
    Sorry for first throwing in the sidecountry word. As a european it was definitly wrongly used. As your inbounds, would be my partly patrolled sidecountry.
    Or better said liftaccesed backcountry.
    Splitting hair. Back to the topic. To summeries.

    It is not ok to park first row in the parking lot. Skin up the slopes and ski on the groomed run. WHY?

    Are you jealouse somebody is taking something for free. Even he is not disturbing you?

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    188
    Quote Originally Posted by nordekette View Post
    It is not ok to park first row in the parking lot. Skin up the slopes and ski on the groomed run. WHY?
    Because America
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