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  1. #201
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bethel, Maine
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    663
    Quote Originally Posted by LesterSmoove View Post
    it's absurd that anyone would argue they have any right to skin up a USFS ski lease for free.
    ...

    to continue in the spirit of criticizing other's choices, I don't understand why people ski dynafit bindings inbounds on hardpack days while riding chairlifts.
    On the first, that's in part dependent on the land ownership, lease terms, and I would assume the regulations and policies of the local Forest. In the case of the area I skied at in Montana (Red Lodge), there is now an easement across the privately held base area for uphill access into the publicly owned areas of the ski area (which are operated by a private entity under legal agreements with the USFS and BLM). As I understand (based largely on a brief conversation with local USFS employees who were involved in administration of the area agreement), the area can limit access for safety reasons, such as avy control work or conflict with the primary (permitted) use, so access is allowed only outside of lift operating hours and not on days where control work or other operating require a closure.

    On the second, 100%. I have done it, albeit after skinning for the first run, and yuck. It's not what pin bindings are good at.


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  2. #202
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    The Bull City
    Posts
    4,838
    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    On the first, that's in part dependent on the land ownership, lease terms, and I would assume the regulations and policies of the local Forest. In the case of the area I skied at in Montana (Red Lodge), there is now an easement across the privately held base area for uphill access into the publicly owned areas of the ski area (which are operated by a private entity under legal agreements with the USFS and BLM). As I understand (based largely on a brief conversation with local USFS employees who were involved in administration of the area agreement), the area can limit access for safety reasons, such as avy control work or conflict with the primary (permitted) use, so access is allowed only outside of lift operating hours and not on days where control work or other operating require a closure.

    On the second, 100%. I have done it, albeit after skinning for the first run, and yuck. It's not what pin bindings are good at.


    Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app
    I don't think many folks would have a problem with people skinning at times when paying lift served skiers can't ride the lifts either. Still would be nice to make sure the preferred paying customers and resort employees get prime parking during operating hours and maybe 30 minutes before the lifts spin.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
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    11,658
    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    I don't think many folks would have a problem with people skinning at times when paying lift served skiers can't ride the lifts either. Still would be nice to make sure the preferred paying customers and resort employees get prime parking during operating hours and maybe 30 minutes before the lifts spin.
    Resort employees? Around here they park at the back back of the parking lots.

  4. #204
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Church of the Nifty Blue Chrysler
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    5,106
    This thread is a perfect example of a non-issue being turned into a divisive conflagration by artificial intelligence.

  5. #205
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    5,323
    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    This thread is a perfect example of a non-issue being turned into a divisive conflagration by artificial intelligence.
    New here?

  6. #206
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    The Bull City
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    4,838
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Resort employees? Around here they park at the back back of the parking lots.
    Shuttle buses? Lockers to leave their gear at the base all the time? Worth it! When I worked at a ski hill there was an upper lot right next to the snow emplyees used, Had a ways to walk but could also just click and ski down to the base.

    As for the free poaching of high dollar resort property and legal loopholes that make it somehow allowable.. Let's get a posse of folks to go skin and poach Yellowstone Club! That would be freaking ....... "Epic!"
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Church of the Nifty Blue Chrysler
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    5,106
    Come on, this topic reeks of that bullshit, just look at how it's popped up all over the Internet recently.

    Beyond that observation, I've said my piece on the subject.

  8. #208
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    base of the Bush
    Posts
    11,579
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
    The new policy at MRG allows management to close the mtn to skinning. These closures will definitely be on powder days.
    I just watched the forum video on MRTV and liked your comments about powder day slayage and dogs. Surprised it took so long to curtail it. I lol this fall when someone on the NEBC FB page [I think this was the one] from Quebec was looking for recs about cheap lodging for a weekend group and someone said "stay at the Starks Nest patrol shack", like that is on airbnb.

    Hope some snow gets here before New Years day.
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  9. #209
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Mostly the Elks, mostly.
    Posts
    546
    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    I know. I was thinking, "Huh, I hope somebody posts where that is". The Elks seemed to big a geographical area for me to hunt down
    W Buttermilk warming shack.
    Weekends and full moon nights especially.

    Admittedly, it's been many years since I've been there.

  10. #210
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    342
    https://m.facebook.com/daniel.liebl....6226685961362/

    A fight between a night pistesinner and a cat driver.
    LIVE IS NOT A CHAIRLIFT

  11. #211
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    on the banks of Fish Creek
    Posts
    1,865
    who won?

  12. #212
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ross Thompson's land
    Posts
    699
    Ha ha ha
    Weren’t there people in this very thread saying skinning in bounds in Europe isn’t an issue because their culture is so different then N. America. Ha ha ha


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  13. #213
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by nordekette View Post
    https://m.facebook.com/daniel.liebl....6226685961362/

    A fight between a night pistesinner and a cat driver.
    Tha fuq? I’m wondering why that cat driver didn’t just kick that skier’s ass seeing as how he was on skis.
    And I guess that I just don't know

  14. #214
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    224
    Privilege even on public lands (like national forests). I see nothing wrong with having to pay a little bit of cash to have access to a ski area...

  15. #215
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    11,658
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kanone View Post
    Ha ha ha
    Weren’t there people in this very thread saying skinning in bounds in Europe isn’t an issue because their culture is so different then N. America. Ha ha ha


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    It's not a fight unless the skier drops his gloves and helmet. And like the man says, probably should kick off skis too.

  16. #216
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    closer
    Posts
    2,831
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kanone View Post
    Ha ha ha
    Weren’t there people in this very thread saying skinning in bounds in Europe isn’t an issue because their culture is so different then N. America. Ha ha ha


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Who said that? We have plenty of self righteous morons over here. The ski rage is fairly well known here. But this is the first time that I have seen tour rage.

    Sent from my BLA-L29 using TGR Forums mobile app
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  17. #217
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    268
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kanone View Post
    Ha ha ha
    Weren’t there people in this very thread saying skinning in bounds in Europe isn’t an issue because their culture is so different then N. America. Ha ha ha


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Well they did the one thing that is contentious, skiing at night when work is going on, in an area where work means using cables. It's not the first time there's been a run in at that resort. There have also been accidents and injuries to skiers running into cables there.

  18. #218
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
    Posts
    11,067
    Quote Originally Posted by m2711c View Post
    who won?
    there are no zuckerbitch winners
    I didn't read the article
    did lou managed to suck sum fritschi dick?
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  19. #219
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    12,822
    Let's get a posse of folks to go skin and poach Yellowstone Club! That would be freaking ....... "Epic!"
    Private property nitwit.

    However if you are a member you can skin anytime, day or night.
    Ooof!

  20. #220
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    342
    I red in the local press there was a discussion about pistsinning. Local goverment / authorities / alpine club / lift owners : )

    They dont want to charge pistesinners because then they would be responible for them. Like a dutch/texan tourist crashes in a pistesinner who pays for uphill touring..... ohhh thats a law case ohhhh i hear already the press!!! safety nets !!! Uphill slopes!!!


    Sent from ullr with love!
    LIVE IS NOT A CHAIRLIFT

  21. #221
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    Dec 2005
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    11,264
    Quote Originally Posted by nordekette View Post
    I red in the local press there was a discussion about pistsinning. Local goverment / authorities / alpine club / lift owners : )

    They dont want to charge pistesinners because then they would be responible for them. Like a dutch/texan tourist crashes in a pistesinner who pays for uphill touring..... ohhh thats a law case ohhhh i hear already the press!!! safety nets !!! Uphill slopes!!!


    Sent from ullr with love!
    Because the resort’s gonna allow skinning but not be responsible because “they didn’t pay”? Can someone who actually understands “a law case” comment?
    And I guess that I just don't know

  22. #222
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    342
    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    Because the resort’s gonna allow skinning but not be responsible because “they didn’t pay”? Can someone who actually understands “a law case” comment?
    You are right.... i am not a lawyer : )


    Sent from ullr with love!
    LIVE IS NOT A CHAIRLIFT

  23. #223
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    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
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    11,658
    Quote Originally Posted by nordekette View Post
    You are right.... i am not a lawyer : )


    Sent from ullr with love!
    We are all gaper spirit lawyers here.

  24. #224
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by nordekette View Post
    I red in the local press there was a discussion about pistsinning. Local goverment / authorities / alpine club / lift owners : )

    They dont want to charge pistesinners because then they would be responible for them. Like a dutch/texan tourist crashes in a pistesinner who pays for uphill touring..... ohhh thats a law case ohhhh i hear already the press!!! safety nets !!! Uphill slopes!!!


    Sent from ullr with love!
    I am not a lawyer either, but I think that by getting someone to purchase an uphill pass and sign the agreement, you can get that individual to agree to a 2+ page list of legalese that assigns all liability to the skinner and covers the resorts ass. just like how apple can make you into a human centipede, as a result of you agreeing to the terms and conditions of your iphone software update. whereas, (and remember I'm not a lawyer, just someone drinking an IPA), if they allow people to go up the damn hill for free without registration or signing anything, they're subject to liability for knowingly letting people go up the hill and doing something inherently risky, and the skinner themselves legally wasn't warned by the resort that they skin at their own risk.

    if a skinner kills a texan doctor or vice versa, it's between those two and their insurance companies. get yourself a PLUP, protect dem assets.

  25. #225
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    Because the resort’s gonna allow skinning but not be responsible because “they didn’t pay”? Can someone who actually understands “a law case” comment?
    I play a lawyer in real life. There is no simple answer. Premises liability varies from state to state, a matter of state common and/or statutory law, usually modified by statute and/or an additional layer of common law in states with downhill ski operations. Generally, the law in most (maybe all?) states distinguish between the scope of duty owed by the landowner (or, usually in the case of a western ski resort, lessee/proprietor) to an invitee vs. a licensee. An invitee is a person who enters and uses the property for the benefit of the proprietor. A licensee is a person who enters the land with permission, but not for the benefit of the proprietor. A skier who buys a lift ticket is an example of an invitee. A person skinning without paying any consideration is likely a licensee under the laws of most states. As a general rule, a proprietor owes a higher duty to an invitee than to a licensee. For example, in some states a proprietor may owe the duty of a reasonable person (negligence duty standard) to an invitee, but is liable to a licensee only for wilful misconduct or gross negligence or some other higher-than-simple-negligence standard.

    Under the law of most (but maybe not all) states, if a ski area proprietor charges for a dirtbag hippie to skin up the hill, such dirtbag hippie metamorphoses from a licensee into an invitee, and thus the operator owes him or her a higher duty (typically simple negligence "reasonable person" duty -- see above).

    OTOH, charging a fee might present the opportunity to get a signed waiver of liability BUT such written waivers are not necessarily enforceable as written and are subject to attack on various grounds (e.g., contract of adhesion, against public policy). Most states with lift ski operations have laws -- some more developed than others -- re ski area liability, written waivers, etc.

    Add to the above the possibility that the area may be operating on federal land or state land pursuant to a lease or special use permit, which may or may not bear upon the proprietor's scope of duty.

    Did I mention there is no simple answer?

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