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  1. #126
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Spokane/Schweitzer
    Posts
    5,200
    I skin up early on Wednesday mornings at a local resort where it's permissible. They allow skinning starting at 6:30 until opening. Once open, you have to be stopped or going downhill. They have a designated skinning area on the edge of the area for the uphill and it's a great way to start the day, just for the exercise. I'll go do a 1600 vert lap, go home and get ready for work and am in the office by 9:30. For that, I thank them for the privilege. And, it's no charge.

  2. #127
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    350
    those mentioned bc areas are nice.... here in tirol retired ski-areas are well used too and one mountainhut owner says his business is better with the skitourcrowds then with the liftcrowds before. (it was a small 2lift skiarea)

    i looked today, if any pistsinners are disturbing me. then i had to stop and take this still
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    all of them walked nicely on the last meter of the groomed area and weren΄t disturbing me at all.
    this one stood out from the rest and was worth a stop.

    i think if you are not disturbing me, why should i care???
    LIVE IS NOT A CHAIRLIFT

  3. #128
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    The Bull City
    Posts
    4,838
    Quote Originally Posted by nordekette View Post

    i think if you are not disturbing me, why should i care???
    Are they taking up nice, close to the lodge parking spots lift ticket paying customers could make use of if they weren't there? On the other hand, bet it's sweet to pull up a little after opening and see one of them pulling out of one of those killer parking spots.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  4. #129
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Spokane/Schweitzer
    Posts
    5,200
    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Are they taking up nice, close to the lodge parking spots lift ticket paying customers could make use of if they weren't there? On the other hand, bet it's sweet to pull up a little after opening and see one of them pulling out of one of those killer parking spots.
    ^^ That's typically what happens when I'm where I go. I'm pulling out about 8:15 and someone is sitting there with their blinker on, waiting for my spot that's right in front of the lodge.

  5. #130
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Northern BC
    Posts
    1,770
    Perhaps this conversation is pointing to the fact that 'alternative' ski areas are a much needed addition to the ski world. Here's another example from B.C. Although not at all geared towards human powered uphill pursuits, it nonetheless speaks to need and desire for something other than the traditional ski resort paradigm.

    https://ridevalemount.com/sled-skiing/

  6. #131
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bethel, Maine
    Posts
    665
    Quote Originally Posted by cillibik View Post
    It's more like allowing cyclists to share the roadways with vehicles. They don't pay registration, but use the resources and impact the ones that are there first.
    .
    FWIW, the bicyclists were using the roadways well before the cars and trucks.

    I just paid the $120 for uphill passes for my wife and myself at a smaller local area. I expect we'll get out there after Christmas, and I find the policies very reasonable:
    - dogs only allowed on non-operational days (they operate Thurs - Sun plus holidays)
    - $10 per day or $60 for a season pass for uphill (free if you have a normal pass)
    - any route you want on non-operational days (although they recommend the ones that aren't stupid-steep and full of blind rolls), prescribed routes when the lifts are spinning (which are the sensible ways up anyhow)
    - don't be skiing over hoses or high-voltage wires for snowguns, nor into snowmachines
    - open trails only (although I doubt they'll be spending much effort enforcing that on non-operational days)

    I'm busier this winter than last, so I don't know if I'll make it over that much, but the dog and I skinned there on at least a handful of their non-operational days last year, and I'd happily have paid the $60 if they had asked for it.

    The larger local place allows uphill traffic during operational hours only (plus half an hour prior to lift opening), no specified routes aside from avoiding a handful of narrow trails, and I regularly see people skinning stuff that makes me go "why would you choose that route?", sometimes in places that exposes them to a lot of downhill traffic of varying skill level. Not how I'd do it, but it seems to work (I've heard no general outcry about changing the policy).

    Re: the leased-USFS-land angle, the last place I was based out of was a conglomeration of USFS and private land, with the base area (and parking lots) largely on private land. In order to get a land swap done that de-patchworked the landholdings at the base (hopefully allowing for base-area updates in the future), the USFS required an easement for non-motorized access across the private land and onto the USFS holdings, with the stated goal of allowing uphill access year-round once a trail had been cut all the way up (uphill access is current not allowed during lift operations to avoid uphill vs. downhill conflicts). Current area regs allow uphill access via specified routes and descent via open trails, with a full closure during avy control work and winch-groomed trails off limits (although they didn't really enforce that when I was there, as long as they weren't actively winching something when you skied it). I mention that because clearly the USFS is aware of, and at least in that case, supportive of access to those public lands and recreational opportunities.

  7. #132
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bethel, Maine
    Posts
    665
    Quote Originally Posted by m2711c View Post
    When I was making snow at Sugarbush, we were not allowed to kick the hunters off the mountain whilst we were making snow. The occasional shotgun blast during startup or shutdown was to be expected.

    Not sure how skinning is different. Just carry your shotgun during hunting season and you should be good to go for a few laps at least...
    The KMart lease (from the State of Vermont) specifically provides that they may not prohibit hunting, and there was some discussion of this when they banned uphill travel (before instituting the current policy that allows for it under certain circumstances). Get your license, figure out what's in season (c.f. https://vtfishandwildlife.com/hunt/h...apping-seasons) and you should be good to go.

    Vermont is probably unique in that it has enshrined the right to hunt in the state constitution, and land is open unless some rather stringent requirements for posting are met; I'm not sure if any of the leased-from-the-state areas are closed to hunting or not.

  8. #133
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    9,790
    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    The KMart lease (from the State of Vermont) specifically provides that they may not prohibit hunting...
    Maybe they mean hunting Jersey girls at the Umbrella Bar? I can't imagine you can sling a rifle over your shoulder and skin up Ovulation without having some sort of issue crop up.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  9. #134
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    4,756
    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    FWIW, the bicyclists were using the roadways well before the cars and trucks.

    I just paid the $120 for uphill passes for my wife and myself at a smaller local area. I expect we'll get out there after Christmas, and I find the policies very reasonable:
    - dogs only allowed on non-operational days (they operate Thurs - Sun plus holidays)
    - $10 per day or $60 for a season pass for uphill (free if you have a normal pass)
    - any route you want on non-operational days (although they recommend the ones that aren't stupid-steep and full of blind rolls), prescribed routes when the lifts are spinning (which are the sensible ways up anyhow)
    - don't be skiing over hoses or high-voltage wires for snowguns, nor into snowmachines
    - open trails only (although I doubt they'll be spending much effort enforcing that on non-operational days)

    I'm busier this winter than last, so I don't know if I'll make it over that much, but the dog and I skinned there on at least a handful of their non-operational days last year, and I'd happily have paid the $60 if they had asked for it.

    The larger local place allows uphill traffic during operational hours only (plus half an hour prior to lift opening), no specified routes aside from avoiding a handful of narrow trails, and I regularly see people skinning stuff that makes me go "why would you choose that route?", sometimes in places that exposes them to a lot of downhill traffic of varying skill level. Not how I'd do it, but it seems to work (I've heard no general outcry about changing the policy).

    Re: the leased-USFS-land angle, the last place I was based out of was a conglomeration of USFS and private land, with the base area (and parking lots) largely on private land. In order to get a land swap done that de-patchworked the landholdings at the base (hopefully allowing for base-area updates in the future), the USFS required an easement for non-motorized access across the private land and onto the USFS holdings, with the stated goal of allowing uphill access year-round once a trail had been cut all the way up (uphill access is current not allowed during lift operations to avoid uphill vs. downhill conflicts). Current area regs allow uphill access via specified routes and descent via open trails, with a full closure during avy control work and winch-groomed trails off limits (although they didn't really enforce that when I was there, as long as they weren't actively winching something when you skied it). I mention that because clearly the USFS is aware of, and at least in that case, supportive of access to those public lands and recreational opportunities.
    super reasonable policy imo

  10. #135
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    11,751
    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    FWIW, the bicyclists were using the roadways well before the cars and trucks.
    I thought the same thing so I looked it up. From wikipedia: "The first mechanically-propelled, two-wheeled [bicycle] may have been built by Kirkpatrick MacMillan, a Scottish blacksmith, in 1839, although the claim is often disputed.[20] He is also associated with the first recorded instance of a cycling traffic offense, when a Glasgow newspaper in 1842 reported an accident in which an anonymous "gentleman from Dumfries-shire... bestride a velocipede... of ingenious design" knocked over a little girl in Glasgow and was fined five shillings.[21]" Fucking cyclists.

    Meanwhile, the first steam powered road vehicle was demonstrated in 1801 but was not practical.. The first internal combustion road vehicle was demonstrated in 1807. The first commercially available cars (Benz) came out in the mid 1880's.

    So like all things bike vs car we can argue ad nauseum which came first.

  11. #136
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    20,470
    Isn't skinning up Bridger during the season verboten because of all the avy work?

    I believe the soup is first come first serve.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  12. #137
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    159
    First they took the tele boots, now they want to close ski areas to skinning skiers... the whole world is infested with trumpish crap and bound to end soon.

  13. #138
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,421
    Don't forget White Grass:

    https://whitegrass.com/

  14. #139
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Posts
    11,305
    Signs at the local place this morning.
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    “Scoop da poop”
    And I guess that I just don't know

  15. #140
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    tetons
    Posts
    6,917

    RESORT UPHILL SKIING — A RIGHT OR PRIVILEGE?

    Quote Originally Posted by cillibik View Post
    It's more like allowing cyclists to share the roadways with vehicles. They don't pay registration, but use the resources and impact the ones that are there first.
    most cyclists also own cars and thus pay registration and use of the resources in that respect
    skid luxury

  16. #141
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    The Bull City
    Posts
    4,838
    Quote Originally Posted by cillibik View Post
    It's more like allowing cyclists to share the roadways with vehicles. They don't pay registration, but use the resources and impact the ones that are there first.
    More like trying to ride your bike on the tollway where others are paying a premium for special use of that semi private road and you are not.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  17. #142
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    4,756
    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    More like trying to ride your bike on the tollway where others are paying a premium for special use of that semi private road and you are not.
    shut the fuck up you vapid turd, not one living soul cares what you think about this or any other subject.

  18. #143
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Posts
    11,305
    ^ lol. Kind of enjoying not being a mod anymore?
    And I guess that I just don't know

  19. #144
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Splat's Garage
    Posts
    3,417
    IF YOU ARE SKINNING UP A RESORT BOUNDARY AREA YOU SHOULD FUCKING PAY!!

    It's a controlled area. You should be at the mercy of the resort operator. Don't care if it is USFS or private. You're entering a controlled area that cost lots of $$$$ to maintain.

    I wish resorts would just ban in-bounds uphill skiing from the base area.

    I can't tell you how many times I've been skiing the side of a trail in CO (going downhill) to run in to some backcountry wannabe gaper skinning uphill on the side of a DOWNHILL ski run.

    Imagine if the Keystone Bike Park DH trails were open to uphill biking? It's almost the same thing that some of these uphill dorks are doing.

  20. #145
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the swamp
    Posts
    6,880
    Quote Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud View Post
    IF YOU ARE SKINNING UP A RESORT BOUNDARY AREA YOU SHOULD FUCKING PAY!!

    It's a controlled area. You should be at the mercy of the resort operator. Don't care if it is USFS or private. You're entering a controlled area that cost lots of $$$$ to maintain.

    I wish resorts would just ban in-bounds uphill skiing from the base area.
    Don’t worry, people ruin everything. At some point, most will close it down, because that’s how it is in the U S of A.

  21. #146
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Splat's Garage
    Posts
    3,417
    Yeah, for real though, maybe we could weed out the backcountry Front Range gaper wannabes if the resorts in Summit/Eagle Counties banned uphill access from the base area. Most of the pussies would not even think about venturing in to the real backcountry.

  22. #147
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    The Bull City
    Posts
    4,838
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    shut the fuck up you vapid turd, not one living soul cares what you think about this or any other subject.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  23. #148
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    4,756
    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    ^ lol. Kind of enjoying not being a mod anymore?
    very much lol

  24. #149
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Whistler
    Posts
    2,057
    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    This thread reminded me of a question that's been bugging me for a while.
    Where does sidecountry end and backcountry begin?
    If I go uphill at the resort, then just keep going to the side and out of bounds am I technically only in sidecountry? Then I assume one can go to the side far enough to technically be in the backcountry, or is the backcountry something one has to access by parking in a super secret location first?
    I think your question is rhetoric, but I still want to answer it.
    Sidecountry = access the sidecountry from the resort and returning back to the resort after using the sidecountry. Or access from the resort and and then descending the sidecountry to the valley floor/base. Possible rescue from the resources of the ski resort is the major factor in the Sidecountry definition.
    Backcountry = access the backcountry from a remote location not associated/attached to a resort. Or use a resort to access the an area that requires more effort/distance to leave the resort's adjacent property. Backcountry can still return home back into the resort from the backcountry, but if you required assistance/rescue while in the backcountry, it would not be the resources of the resort that organize the rescue.

  25. #150
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    the LCC
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs View Post
    I think your question is rhetoric, but I still want to answer it.
    Sidecountry = access the sidecountry from the resort and returning back to the resort after using the sidecountry. Or access from the resort and and then descending the sidecountry to the valley floor/base. Possible rescue from the resources of the ski resort is the major factor in the Sidecountry definition.
    Backcountry = access the backcountry from a remote location not associated/attached to a resort. Or use a resort to access the an area that requires more effort/distance to leave the resort's adjacent property. Backcountry can still return home back into the resort from the backcountry, but if you required assistance/rescue while in the backcountry, it would not be the resources of the resort that organize the rescue.
    We don't have the same definitions of side and back country here stateside.
    Far as rescue responsibility is concerned.
    Like yours a whole lot better...
    Time spent skiing cannot be deducted from one's life.

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