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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tahoe-ish
    Posts
    761
    I think the ATK R12 2.0 that is on my VTA88 is what started Gimpy on this quest, and the above photos are super helpful as a resource, so here are some of the R12. It is a beautiful piece of engineering, and the brake works so smoothly that I have left it on (haven't skied with brakes in 10 years). I can't speak to the hard snow performance since I don't ski at resorts, but they are my favorite of any binding I've used for touring. (This group includes original TLT, Comforts, Vertical, Radical, Ion, MTN, and ATK skimo bindings.) The MTN/Backland is 2nd place.

    WRT the riser heights, the photos will tell the story. 5 is 2 more than I need, but it's not a problem. I require a flat mode, and can't understand why a mid-weight binding would not have one. (I'm looking at you, Helio 180.) The riser over pin mode is nice when the skin track is consistently up from the transition point, and saves having to spin the heel. The magnetic flippy risers are a nice touch.

    All of that said, I'd probably buy the Helio 200 or ATK equivalent instead. The R12 features are super nice, but personally I'd rather save the weight. The deal I got for this setup was crazy though. Also, FYI, the R12 heel screw pattern appears to be unique. (If it weren't I'd trade these for the H200 that Gimpy will prob get.)

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    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T707A using TGR Forums mobile app
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    325
    Does anybody know if it would work to run the Helio 200/Haute Route without the heel adjustment plate? I'm a weenie who's overly sensitive to binding ramp, and I'd be interested in trying that. Obviously you'd be committed to a certain BSL and lose some riser height, as well as having a smaller mount pattern in the ski, but I think I can live with all of that.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Aspen
    Posts
    822
    Shouldn't be an issue, as the Helio 145 can be mounted to the Helio heel plate. Both H200 and H145 have the same four hole base.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tahoe-ish
    Posts
    761
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    Does anybody know if it would work to run the Helio 200/Haute Route without the heel adjustment plate? I'm a weenie who's overly sensitive to binding ramp, and I'd be interested in trying that. Obviously you'd be committed to a certain BSL and lose some riser height, as well as having a smaller mount pattern in the ski, but I think I can live with all of that.
    Sure. It's just the separate solid plate style of heel adjuster, so you could mount the heel piece directly to the ski instead.

    However, add someone who has a set of race bindings on some skis, I'd recommend using the plate. Having the ability to change BSL is very nice, even just for resale. You can even out the ramp with a plastic shim under the toe instead. If you're really that concerned about weight you'll get a U spring race binding anyway.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T707A using TGR Forums mobile app
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,451
    And ... the ramp angle with the plate is still quite low. Not flat (which you might be after) but low.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    325
    Thanks guys. Toe shims are obviously a good option too – already running them on a bunch of my skis. The idea here would be to go as weight weenie as I can while staying away from a U spring heel, and getting a nearly flat binding, but those few grams probably aren't worth it. Just food for thought.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,021
    I don't think they are up here yet and the pro i know doesn't have any info on if/when they will be coming and he would
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    867
    Quote Originally Posted by smooth operator View Post
    I've been using the spacer for years, both with an ATK freeraider and with a speed radical. For those who doubt its use, insert a boot into a speed radical (or similar binding where the boot just hangs on the rear pins, ie. no brake pad) and move the boot laterally while holding the ski flat to your workbench. The amount of lateral play is significant. Now imagine what that does to your skiing.
    Any suggestions for mounting these beauties on a ski that has a metal sollyfit plate? I have to think even epoxy will just crack at some point (plastic glued to metal) yeah? There's a Loctite "plastic bonder" ...

    Did you mount the ones paired with speed rads right into the ski?

    Me = “knowledge worker” so be gentle if this is obvious .

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  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    325
    Drill and tap hole in the Sollyfit plate and bolt it to that?

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    867
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    Drill and tap hole in the Sollyfit plate and bolt it to that?
    If the plate wasn’t already on the ski that’s perfect. Dang.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bellevue
    Posts
    5,298
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyski View Post
    If the plate wasn’t already on the ski that’s perfect. Dang.
    You might be able to do it anyway with a machine screw. I'll measure my plates but I think the wall is 3mm thick? I have bottoming taps if you're afraid of hitting the ski

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyski View Post
    If the plate wasn’t already on the ski that’s perfect. Dang.
    Take the plate off the ski, do the thing, then reinstall.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,448

    opinions on bd helios bindings

    As a fellow “knowledge worker” (read over consumer of porn) I’d suggest you either fully remove the plate and remount the heels if you really want that spacer - as long as it wouldn’t leave your heel resting on your boot (there’s still a gap).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    72
    Just picked up some trofeo pluses (helios 180s). Getting ready to mount them i noticed that the heal track/baseplate are shown in opposite directions on the BD site and and the ATK one.

    It looks like the binding is designed with a slightly offset detent for the sideways position so if you mount it the atk way you get less heel binding in flat mode. And at least the outdoor gear lab review mounted it the BD way and complained about binding.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by hillmap View Post
    Just picked up some trofeo pluses (helios 180s). Getting ready to mount them i noticed that the heal track/baseplate are shown in opposite directions on the BD site and and the ATK one.

    It looks like the binding is designed with a slightly offset detent for the sideways position so if you mount it the atk way you get less heel binding in flat mode. And at least the outdoor gear lab review mounted it the BD way and complained about binding.
    Wow, good eye -- I never noticed that!

    So playing around with a pair, yes, you're correct: mounted the way on the ATK website, the contours of the binding allow for more clearance of the boot heel in flat mode.
    Whereas on the BD and Outdoor Gear Lab websites, the contours will jam into the boot heel more readily.
    (Or you can also increase the gap a bit to more like 5mm -- given the decent length of the heel pins, and the generally robust design, you can probably get away with it if you aren't stomping monster jumps, etc.)
    For the pics on the BD and Outdoor Gear Lab websites, the plate needs to rotated 180 degrees, and then the binding needs to be spun 180 degrees on its pedestal.
    (Or for an already mounted setup, unbold the binding from the plate, rebolt the binding at 180 degrees to its original position, then spin the binding 180 degrees on its pedestal.)
    And amusing as always to see the Outgear Gear Lab ratings for weight (which already has its own inherently quantified rating in the form of a standardized systems of weights and measures), downhill performance (where if anything it's more secure than any of the other relatively traditional heel pin bindings), ease of use (what is reflected in the missing three points?), and touring performance (6 out of 10, really?).
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,216
    Also just noticed that the Outdoor Gear Lab review claimed the binding has only one heel elevator position.
    Granted, the higher position gets you only another half cm, but still, the binding is deliberately designed (and advertised as such) with two heel elevator positions (as opposed to other race-style bindings, where spinning the binding 180 degrees on its pedestal and flipping back the heel elevator all the way is explicitly discouraged), but still, would help the credibility of a product review to at least understand all the features of the product being reviewed (especially a product with so few features).
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

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