Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,215

    Buying a used AED?

    One of my backcountry ski touring partners is a heart attack survivor in his late 60s who is accustomed to pushing his limits from bike racing until recently and as a highly competitive runner before then.

    Actually, no, that's not the real reason for this inquiry, although the preceding sentence is nevertheless true.
    (As an NP jokes about him, "he gets one precordial thump with my ski boot, then I'm black tagging him and moving on -- I've got better things to do!")

    Seriously though, after years of organizing this backcountry skimo/rando race:
    http://nerandorace.blogspot.com/p/co...-greylock.html
    ... which gets relocated to a nearby ski resort half the time (oh the fickle Southern New England snowpack, combined with a suboptimal aspect),
    this season we now have another backcountry venue:
    https://nerandorace.blogspot.com/p/r...nue-rasta.html
    ... which is far more reliable.

    We should be able to borrow a Cascade toboggan from a nearby patrol to position near the base of the course.
    And I'm planning to purchase this:
    https://skedco.com/product/complete-...embled-rolled/
    ... to position at the top of the course.
    Maybe also one of these:
    http://www.deadsled.com/index.php?ro...&product_id=29
    ... since despite the name and intended application, seems like it could a useful back-up/supplement.
    (The Greylock race has a permanent sled cache at the top.)

    I looked at my NSP discount on a new Philips Onsite model.
    But eBay has all sorts of great used deals, like THIS.
    I suspect that the biggest problem with an older used model is that the battery won't hold a charge for very long.
    But all I need to do is charge the battery the day before the race, and all it has to do is last for the day of the race.

    Some good reading here:
    https://www.aedsuperstore.com/resour...furbished-aed/

    Thanks in advance any feedback!
    (And yes, the races are insured, and we have ski patrollers stationed along the course.)
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    North Worst
    Posts
    107
    I have no experience with used aeds, we purchase all of ours new. Have you tried reaching out to your local fire department? I’m sure an officer, paramedic, or the Medical Services Officer (MSO)would be able to provide you with some insight and experience.

    Have you looked around to see if there’s any grants that you would fit the requirements to aid in purchasing?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,522
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    (And yes, the races are insured, and we have ski patrollers stationed along the course.)
    Does your insurance cover you being a cheapskate and buying a used AED with a dead battery?
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    30,471
    I wonder if there's a AED forum somewhere with people posting stupid questions about second hand avalanche beacons with shonky batteries?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,215
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    I wonder if there's a AED forum somewhere with people posting stupid questions about second hand avalanche beacons with shonky batteries?
    Since there are already ski forums in which people ask about buying really old used avalanche beacons that were poorly rated models in their day, no need for AED forum participants to chime in on that topic.

    So is a used AED by definition automatically suspect? That's why I'm asking here. I've sold plenty of used avy beacons in excellent condition with designs that are still competitive, simply because I could buy the latest gee whiz features for less than what I could sell my old beacons. Does that happen with AEDs? Or do used models have dated designs and/or worthless batteries? I have no idea why any institution would upgrade an AED, hence my inquiry.
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,215
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Does your insurance cover you being a cheapskate and buying a used AED with a dead battery?
    It covers backcountry races with no AED up high on the hill, so any used AED stationed at the top of the course would be a potential improvement.
    And do used AEDs have dead batteries? Or just batteries that need to be recharged more frequently?
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    30,471
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    I have no idea why any institution would upgrade an AED
    Expiry dates on batteries and pads.. unavailability of replacements?
    I'm sure that many places have a replace after X years.

    If you think that you should supply an AED at your event you should do it properly. Not via ebay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,522
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    It covers backcountry races with no AED up high on the hill, so any used AED stationed at the top of the course would be a potential improvement.
    And do used AEDs have dead batteries? Or just batteries that need to be recharged more frequently?
    I'm not a lawyer or a medical professional but I'd suspect that "no AED available" and "we had an AED and we tried to use it but it was a shitty used one and we wasted valuable time to find out it didn't work" create different liability scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    If you think that you should supply an AED at your event you should do it properly. Not via ebay.
    Yeah, this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,021

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,215
    Okay, good points, thanks.
    But setting aside Fleabay, lots of refurbished models:
    https://www.foremostequipment.com/ae...?sort=priceasc
    I'll email them to ask about exactly what their "refurbished" status means...
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,215
    Here's their brief blurb:
    https://www.foremostequipment.com/repairs/
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sandy
    Posts
    4,847
    Why not partner with your local SAR /EMS agency to help support the race (and bring an AED) and just donate the AED $$ to them for the support?

    Sked is awesome, folding cascade too if you can find one.

    If you do have an AED on the course your going to have to control the temps, freezing can also effect the gel pads, etc.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Shuswap Highlands
    Posts
    2,479
    Quote Originally Posted by sfotex View Post
    Why not partner with your local SAR /EMS agency to help support the race (and bring an AED) and just donate the AED $$ to them for the support?

    Sked is awesome, folding cascade too if you can find one.

    If you do have an AED on the course your going to have to control the temps, freezing can also effect the gel pads, etc.
    This^^

    Our SAR team volunteers hours to act as race marshals for local ski and running events. We are not technically tasked, so there are nuances to consider about rendering 1st aid, equipment is damaged or supplies consumed, but it works for our small community.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    livin the dream
    Posts
    3,609
    Theoretically, if by “refurbished” they mean that they replace the battery and pads; calibrate and test it. How would that be different than when the FD brings theirs in for service or repair?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Best Skier on the Mountain
    Self-Certified
    1992 - 2012
    Squaw Valley, USA

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,484
    Can't you just grab a nice fresh one from like Burger King? Those people probably wouldn't even know it's gone?

    Asking for a friend

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,215
    Quote Originally Posted by sfotex View Post
    Why not partner with your local SAR /EMS agency to help support the race (and bring an AED) and just donate the AED $$ to them for the support?

    Sked is awesome, folding cascade too if you can find one.

    If you do have an AED on the course your going to have to control the temps, freezing can also effect the gel pads, etc.
    For this race:
    http://nerandorace.blogspot.com/p/co...-greylock.html
    ... the trailhead is about a minute or two from town EMS, so an AED could be at the base far faster than we can sled a skier down the mountain.
    We have a backcountry ski patrol specific to that mountain, with a sled cache at the top of the course.
    The patrol leaders are really outstanding, and even pulled off a rescue:
    http://www.iberkshires.com/storyOld/...n-Rescues.html
    ... that still strikes me as borderline impossible.
    (The article really doesn't do it justice: the powerline follows an old landslide, which even in "good" conditions is the most challenging route I've ever skied, far harder than skiing off the summit of Rainier, with far more hazards. How they got a sled down it, and then with the patient in it also, still baffles me.)
    I was surprised to learn though that we've never tried to borrow an AED from town FD/EMS. However, even if we could, that is kind of a double-edged sword, since when we've had them involved, the race gets...complicated. (And now that the Town leases the base of the mountain from the state, we need to have the Board of Selectmen vote on our permit!)

    For this new venue:
    https://nerandorace.blogspot.com/p/r...nue-rasta.html
    ... we're forming an ad hoc ski patrol just for the race.
    (Although I wouldn't be surprised if it forms into a standing ski patrol, which is how the other backcountry patrol evolved.)
    Since cell reception there is not reliable, the local contact says we can borrow radios from the town FD.
    I'll ask about borrowing an AED up onto the course -- and good to know about the impact of cold, thanks.

    The plan is that I'm donating the net proceeds to the local trail network, so I might propose that I buy a Sked in advance for the race, and then we permanently position it at the top of the trail network.
    (An entirely unsanctioned trail network nearby has a first aid cache at one location and a stashed sled at another -- no idea who put all that in there, but sure seems like a similar setup would be good for this official trail network.)

    Now just don't submit any negative response to the federal agency public comment process currently being conducted on my race permit application!
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,215
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Can't you just grab a nice fresh one from like Burger King? Those people probably wouldn't even know it's gone?

    Asking for a friend
    I often stop at the McDonald's in town on the way to the first race venue to use the bathroom.
    I'll scout out the AED next time I'm there!
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    30,471
    "far harder than skiing off the summit of Rainier"

    Thermogenesis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sandy
    Posts
    4,847
    Dunno if you saw this article:
    https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S...413-5/fulltext


    Sked pro tip, you can get them cheap from government surplus auctions if you don't mind steezy green. Skeds also shine when you have to carry them up.

    Doing CPR in a sked would be pretty hard, you can in a cascade.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    land of the free
    Posts
    8,477
    Maybe there is a law in that state protecting private groups from aed useage whether used, refurbished or bought new and just old or improperly charged and inspected.
    Think Good Samaritan laws.

    Your intentions are good but lawyers and lawsuits suck.

    Given how many aed’s are all over there might be some legislation out there limiting liability.

    In VT a quick google has this

    http://www.aedstoday.com/Vermont-AED-Laws_c_133.html

    https://www.aedbrands.com/resource-c...-laws/vermont/

    You get Good Samaritan immunity but you have notice and device testing requirements etc.

    Quick summary is you need to subcontract this service
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.”
    Hunter S. Thompson

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    land of the free
    Posts
    8,477
    If you really want to do it, notify your insurance carrier, notify your local govt and document in writing your testing protocol
    https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2014/...-to-Shock.aspx
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.”
    Hunter S. Thompson

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Wa wa..tatic
    Posts
    3,275
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Can't you just grab a nice fresh one from like Burger King? Those people probably wouldn't even know it's gone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    I often stop at the McDonald's in town on the way to the first race venue to use the bathroom.
    I'll scout out the AED next time I'm there!
    Just FYI, they're usually alarmed

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    SFCA
    Posts
    1,227
    Just a wild idea, but maybe go ahead with the refurb/used unit, then tell your local hospital what you're doing and beg them to have their booked check it for you?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SF & the Ho
    Posts
    5,917
    I suggest just “borrowing” a car battery. View Marathon Man for usage instruction

    This thread belongs in Bullfighting

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Among Greatness All Around
    Posts
    5,224
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    Since there are already ski forums in which people ask about buying really old used avalanche beacons that were poorly rated models in their day, no need for AED forum participants to chime in on that topic.

    So is a used AED by definition automatically suspect? That's why I'm asking here. I've sold plenty of used avy beacons in excellent condition with designs that are still competitive, simply because I could buy the latest gee whiz features for less than what I could sell my old beacons. Does that happen with AEDs? Or do used models have dated designs and/or worthless batteries? I have no idea why any institution would upgrade an AED, hence my inquiry.
    Only experience I have is a non-profit that I am involved. They replace them because the battery age and life. Just like any battery of any type - after a period of time it will no longer take or hold a charge. There is a Doctor that is knowledgeable on the board also and we use his expertise on the decision as to when a new one is required. I doubt the old units are sold on Ebay or anywhere for that matter after they do the removal from service and replacement.

    If it is a 1 day event, may just want to see about a EMT crew that would be able to be present and of course bring their gear. Used to do that for larger organized cycling races that had to have a full medical for insurance policy coverage to be approved.

    I do not play a Doctor or medical expert, so check with local medical or emergency responders.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •