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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by roQer View Post
    I don’t know how VŲlkl guys did this but M102 pivots very much like a subtle fully rockered Katana or Gotama having actually a good amount of camber. Also very similar to a Rustler 11/OG Cochise which are basically flat under the binding. Those who know recognize this feeling immediately after first few turns.
    Yes to the above. Can't speak to the R11 as I haven't skied them yet, but the M102 or K108 are stronger on edge than the OG Cochise and has more energy out of a turn. In my opinion, Volkl is killing it with this shape, so versatile and floats way better than you would think from just looking at the shape.

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaperious Basterd View Post
    To the engineers out there: the beam load chart that shows up in this thread in tapatalk (couldnít locate in thread)...

    Is it to be assumed the geometric center of any beam is the best mount point, or is it to be assumed the factory recommended mount point is in fact the location based on construction, and one should not deviate from it if they want the best performance?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    There would be no reason to assume the geometric center of the beam is the best mount point. Opposite ends of the beam do different things. With different loads.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaperious Basterd View Post
    To the engineers out there: the beam load chart that shows up in this thread in tapatalk (couldnít locate in thread)...

    Is it to be assumed the geometric center of any beam is the best mount point, or is it to be assumed the factory recommended mount point is in fact the location based on construction, and one should not deviate from it if they want the best performance?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    The beam in this case is carefully designed to be loaded at a certain spot, corresponding to sidecut and... other stuff. Look at how the core thickness changes over the length.

    Symmetrical park skis are the only example I can think of... for a ski being mounted near geometric center by design.

    Troll?
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  4. #129
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    I think I read in the thread these dont run short on a tape pull and with the flat tail are going to have a longish effective edge... I know they are completely different skis by several generations and shape, but coming from a 183 old generation big twin gotama, seems I'd be happiest on the 177 instead of the 184. The Blister review seems to support this premise as well. What do you think?

  5. #130
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    I think 184? As mentioned there's a long subtle rocker line and they pivot really easily.

    I think it also depends on if you're skiing tight places.

    Prob just psych but whenever I've ever gone shorter, I've wondered what if...
    Last edited by bry; 02-23-2020 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Added a thought

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlecross View Post
    Yep, I'm bringing my Enforcer 110 and the new M102 to Revy... will be interesting to see which gets skied more. I have a feeling that mountain will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.
    Curious which lengths you have for each ski. From my experience, the 191 Enforcer 110 and 184 M102 are the appropriate comparison.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit Man View Post
    Curious which lengths you have for each ski. From my experience, the 191 Enforcer 110 and 184 M102 are the appropriate comparison.
    Thatís what Iíll be comparing if the local shop drops them a little more. And 184 MB99.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post

    Troll?
    When a Norse man asks ďtroll?Ē, I wonder if that has further meaning.


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  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit Man View Post
    Curious which lengths you have for each ski. From my experience, the 191 Enforcer 110 and 184 M102 are the appropriate comparison.
    185 Enforcer 110 is what I've got (mostly for East Coast tight trees and visiting my brother on the Ridge at Bridger). I bought the M102 in a 184 so you are correct... not quite apples to apples unfortunately. I also ski a 191 Movement Goliath and a 188 Rossi Experience 98 at Sugarloaf in Maine. Kind of wishfully thinking that the M102 will be a combination of the best traits of 1)the ease of the Enforcer, 2)the dampness of the Goliath, and 3)the carving of the Rossi. It would sure make my quiver lighter!

    Edit for reference: I'm 48years, 5'7" and 180lb, former racer and coach so everything is a pretend GS course for me.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaka View Post
    I hand flexed, fondled a pair of M102s in a whitefish shop last week. I was smitten. Cool to read everyone's thoughts in this thread. So, would the M102 be a proper way to retire my beloved OG black buddah 183 gotamas? Carry forward some of the DNA?
    Chaka,

    I would try the K108 before you buy the M102. Not that the M102 isn't an awesome ski but I think it is worth trying the K108 before pulling the trigger.

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlecross View Post
    Yep, I'm bringing my Enforcer 110 and the new M102 to Revy... will be interesting to see which gets skied more. I have a feeling that mountain will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.
    Singlecross,

    Please let me know which ski you end up on more. I would bet the M102 but would be interested to see what you end up skiing.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    Yes to the above. Can't speak to the R11 as I haven't skied them yet, but the M102 or K108 are stronger on edge than the OG Cochise and has more energy out of a turn. In my opinion, Volkl is killing it with this shape, so versatile and floats way better than you would think from just looking at the shape.
    VOLKL IS KILLING IT!!!! Way better to ski than it would appear from looking at the shape. So stoked about the Volkl line up this year. All other manufacturers have some catching up to do.
    Last edited by SnowCreekChad; 02-26-2020 at 04:19 PM.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowCreekChad View Post
    Chaka,

    I would try the K108 before you buy the M102. Not that the M102 isn't an awesome ski but I think it is worth trying the K108 before pulling the trigger.
    if I could find a demo I would. but if forced to buy unseen, I'd probably lean towards the 102 as I already have a 108 waist ski (scott punisher)

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaka View Post
    if I could find a demo I would. but if forced to buy unseen, I'd probably lean towards the 102 as I already have a 108 waist ski (scott punisher)
    Fair enough... You should see K108 demos in March.

  15. #140
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    But yeah, the carbon tip can be noisy when encountering firm cord (as per the K108 discussion)

    Regardless, this ski shreds. Itís a GS ski, that releases and surfs.

  16. #141
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    But yeah, the carbon tip can be noisy when encountering firm cord (as per the K108 discussion)

    Easy fix, add a UVO disc.

    iv'e added one to two skis now, effective. Don't tell Volkl though. They don't like the idea.

  17. #142
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    First day on my 184cm Mantra 102 yesterday in 12"-14" of fresh, reasonably light snow at Sugarloaf in Maine. Skied untracked gladed trees, untracked trails, firm chop, a few bumps, and end of day groomers with some piles here and there. Again, I'm 48y/o, 5'7", 180lb, former racer and coach, with a strongly directional bias.

    First off, I bought it as a "used demo" ski mounted with a demo Marker Griffon from a well known eastern online retailer and the damn thing showed up obviously BRAND NEW. Boner.

    Started the day mounted on "the" line. Skied a soft-ish groomed trail at speed first thing in the rush to get to the untracked glades, but felt a mid arc speed wobble/hook/uncertainty which was a bit disconcerting in GS/Super G arcs. Maybe it's the multi radius sidecut, or the soft snow on the groomer, or the ski tune, or the first 20-30 turns on the ski ever, whatever, but it was there. No time to fuck with it.

    Got to the untracked and the ski was very intuitive and planed up well on a fresh ungroomed trail with 12-14" on it and not trying to rail on high edge angles but making bigger radius turns. With feet more underneath me, ski tracked well not hooky. Awesome.

    Next few laps in the tree glades working untracked lines in tight Eastern trees. Ski was plenty maneuverable, floated well, and broke free to slash and pivot very well. Again, awesome.

    Back out to the trails for leftovers and ski some chop. Ski was reasonably stable through the chop but still had the perceived speed wobble/hook mid arc when I found the underlaying bottom. Again, this was at a fairly high edge angle and speed like trying to ski a GS course through chop. Couldn't really stand on the ski and trust it like on my 191cm Movement Goliath (a great 109mm underfoot,30 meter radius ,damp/stable chop ski) for those familiar.

    Went to a bump run to regroup and check that out. Fun in the bumps while keeping the tips pointed down the hill and good to pick a bump as a ramp and air into the next line over. Didn't get hung up. Perfectly acceptable for this type of ski.

    Set off to some firmer mellow groomers to really see what's up with the speed wobble/uncertainty in the arc of the ski. Two runs and it was still there... just a little hesitation, then hook, just after the fall line when really standing on it. Bummer. It's no pure, locked in carver (which I love) like my 188cm Rossi Experience 98 (essentially a fat powerful GS ski that is known to be a somewhat one dimensional carver and hooky unless set back a couple of cm behind recommended). So, remembering that, I set the demo binding back 1cm behind the line on the Mantra 102 and skied the same runs. Much better and wobble/hook almost dialed out. Confidence restored and starting to trust that the Mantra wouldn't hook under me and launch me. I'll still need to get it on some more typical eastern groomer conditions (i.e. much firmer) to really figure out what's up with carving arcs on the Mantra 102.

    Obviously, only day one... But sometimes first impressions are the clearest. Great performance as a fresh snow and tree ski, fine in bumps and chop, and I can hopefully dial out the peculiar carving first impression by adjusting the mount point or detune the tips more. I certainly don't think it skis "long" for its given length or is something to be wary of, but likes to be driven.

    Better than my 185cm Nordica Enforcer 110 in every way so far but Dad turn easy carving and mellowness (and maybe I'd miss the 110 width in really deep snow). I'll probably keep it simple and only travel with the Mantra 102 on my upcoming week in Revelstoke to play with it more.

    Bottom line: Really good ski that I'm glad I have demo bindings on to be able to adjust the mount point to dial it in. Might be a quiver killer, but not yet. I'm going to keep mine at -1cm for a while to increase stability carving (should help with float too) and hopefully not impact its maneuverability in the trees.

  18. #143
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    Miniperson feedback on the 177. Me: 5'8" 140 w/o gear. I LOVE the 184 metal Katana and have more days on it than any other ski I've owned.

    Got these as a no-new-snow ski, which I lacked. Ski at Alpy. Went 177 after demoing the 184 M5 last year on groomers and having it feel long. I'm also going through a very lame phase with my skiing and have legs that resemble pipe cleaners at the moment, so there's that.

    2 full days on these, both with a bit of new snow and also hard pack. In about 5" or less, I'm stoked. Intuitive as hell once you realize that they aren't long radius, shin-crushing-front-of-boot tanks. They're dancers at my height in this size.

    They ski true to length, IMO. They've only felt short in deeper crud where 102 under foot and 177 is just not cutting the mustard compared to 184 Kats and 186 DPS RPCs, obviously. I could make it mostly work, but it was work in those conditions. Just not enough ski unless it was VERY light snow (which it mostly wasn't).

    Cruising around 5" or so of pow, soft avy debris and soft crud was fucking awesome. Any radius you want. Flick or cruise.

    Skiing steep packed pow (tight right International/Adrenaline @ Alpy) is the shit in these.

    Haven't had any issues with hooking or twitching 90% of the time. I'm positive the couple twitches I have had will be solved with a gummy (I don't like edges) and they happened on hard pack.

    At this length, being centered pays off, and they definitely are fine with you getting a bit in the back seat without punishment.

    Like everyone else has mostly said, I don't find these to be monster trucks at all, but a 177 wouldn't anyway, I suppose. Really easy to ski. Given that, it's hard not to wonder about the 184...but given the rest of my quiver, I'm happy with these.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlecross View Post
    First day on my 184cm Mantra 102 yesterday in 12"-14" of fresh, reasonably light snow at Sugarloaf in Maine. Skied untracked gladed trees, untracked trails, firm chop, a few bumps, and end of day groomers with some piles here and there. Again, I'm 48y/o, 5'7", 180lb, former racer and coach, with a strongly directional bias.

    First off, I bought it as a "used demo" ski mounted with a demo Marker Griffon from a well known eastern online retailer and the damn thing showed up obviously BRAND NEW. Boner.

    Started the day mounted on "the" line. Skied a soft-ish groomed trail at speed first thing in the rush to get to the untracked glades, but felt a mid arc speed wobble/hook/uncertainty which was a bit disconcerting in GS/Super G arcs. Maybe it's the multi radius sidecut, or the soft snow on the groomer, or the ski tune, or the first 20-30 turns on the ski ever, whatever, but it was there. No time to fuck with it.

    Got to the untracked and the ski was very intuitive and planed up well on a fresh ungroomed trail with 12-14" on it and not trying to rail on high edge angles but making bigger radius turns. With feet more underneath me, ski tracked well not hooky. Awesome.

    Next few laps in the tree glades working untracked lines in tight Eastern trees. Ski was plenty maneuverable, floated well, and broke free to slash and pivot very well. Again, awesome.

    Back out to the trails for leftovers and ski some chop. Ski was reasonably stable through the chop but still had the perceived speed wobble/hook mid arc when I found the underlaying bottom. Again, this was at a fairly high edge angle and speed like trying to ski a GS course through chop. Couldn't really stand on the ski and trust it like on my 191cm Movement Goliath (a great 109mm underfoot,30 meter radius ,damp/stable chop ski) for those familiar.

    Went to a bump run to regroup and check that out. Fun in the bumps while keeping the tips pointed down the hill and good to pick a bump as a ramp and air into the next line over. Didn't get hung up. Perfectly acceptable for this type of ski.

    Set off to some firmer mellow groomers to really see what's up with the speed wobble/uncertainty in the arc of the ski. Two runs and it was still there... just a little hesitation, then hook, just after the fall line when really standing on it. Bummer. It's no pure, locked in carver (which I love) like my 188cm Rossi Experience 98 (essentially a fat powerful GS ski that is known to be a somewhat one dimensional carver and hooky unless set back a couple of cm behind recommended). So, remembering that, I set the demo binding back 1cm behind the line on the Mantra 102 and skied the same runs. Much better and wobble/hook almost dialed out. Confidence restored and starting to trust that the Mantra wouldn't hook under me and launch me. I'll still need to get it on some more typical eastern groomer conditions (i.e. much firmer) to really figure out what's up with carving arcs on the Mantra 102.

    Obviously, only day one... But sometimes first impressions are the clearest. Great performance as a fresh snow and tree ski, fine in bumps and chop, and I can hopefully dial out the peculiar carving first impression by adjusting the mount point or detune the tips more. I certainly don't think it skis "long" for its given length or is something to be wary of, but likes to be driven.

    Better than my 185cm Nordica Enforcer 110 in every way so far but Dad turn easy carving and mellowness (and maybe I'd miss the 110 width in really deep snow). I'll probably keep it simple and only travel with the Mantra 102 on my upcoming week in Revelstoke to play with it more.

    Bottom line: Really good ski that I'm glad I have demo bindings on to be able to adjust the mount point to dial it in. Might be a quiver killer, but not yet. I'm going to keep mine at -1cm for a while to increase stability carving (should help with float too) and hopefully not impact its maneuverability in the trees.
    I remember when I demoed the 102's last year having the exact same twitch feeling you described. Maybe it wasn't just me. However, when I was back-to-backing the 102's with the K108 at this years on-snow demo (boilerplate conditions) I didn't get that feeling. PLEASE keep us informed on how it responds to changes in mount point and any detuning you get to. At this point I'm thinking this could be about the ultimate ski around which to build a quiver...for me at least....or possibly the K108....lot's of similarities between them

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyski View Post
    Miniperson feedback on the 177. Me: 5'8" 140 w/o gear. I LOVE the 184 metal Katana and have more days on it than any other ski I've owned.

    Got these as a no-new-snow ski, which I lacked. Ski at Alpy. Went 177 after demoing the 184 M5 last year on groomers and having it feel long. I'm also going through a very lame phase with my skiing and have legs that resemble pipe cleaners at the moment, so there's that.

    2 full days on these, both with a bit of new snow and also hard pack. In about 5" or less, I'm stoked. Intuitive as hell once you realize that they aren't long radius, shin-crushing-front-of-boot tanks. They're dancers at my height in this size.

    They ski true to length, IMO. They've only felt short in deeper crud where 102 under foot and 177 is just not cutting the mustard compared to 184 Kats and 186 DPS RPCs, obviously. I could make it mostly work, but it was work in those conditions. Just not enough ski unless it was VERY light snow (which it mostly wasn't).

    Cruising around 5" or so of pow, soft avy debris and soft crud was fucking awesome. Any radius you want. Flick or cruise.

    Skiing steep packed pow (tight right International/Adrenaline @ Alpy) is the shit in these.

    Haven't had any issues with hooking or twitching 90% of the time. I'm positive the couple twitches I have had will be solved with a gummy (I don't like edges) and they happened on hard pack.

    At this length, being centered pays off, and they definitely are fine with you getting a bit in the back seat without punishment.

    Like everyone else has mostly said, I don't find these to be monster trucks at all, but a 177 wouldn't anyway, I suppose. Really easy to ski. Given that, it's hard not to wonder about the 184...but given the rest of my quiver, I'm happy with these.
    thanks for this review, we ski the same environs, helpful!

  21. #146
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    Me 6 ft, 220. My current favorite ski in the quiver is a 189 ON3P BG and I am searching for a hard snow ski I like as much.

    Had my first day on the 191 mounted +1 from recommended with Pivot 14s this past weekend on typically awful east coast snow. Short story - the Mantras delivered and I'm super happy with the purchase. +1 doesn't cause the ski to explode and could help if you're both bad at landing airs and too old to heal quickly if you fuck up. 191 is very manageable if you're tall and sort of fat.

    Started the day off with some fairly open groomers to see if I could find the speed limit. After several laps it became clear to me that the speed limit on groomers is faster than I'm willing to ski if there could be other people in front of me. Vertical just disappeared. The ski is happiest at speed, but once it's at speed they're surprisingly easy to work into a variety of turn shapes and styles. Overall, the groomer performance is as good as any all mountain ski I've ever used and better than most. For example, the Mantras did not feel appreciably worse than (at least my current memory of) a Kastle MX88 which is a much more one dimensional tool.

    I started looking for bumps to see how the Mantra would handle them due to the mass and length. I wasn't able to find any tight, fall line bumps. The icy, scraped off wide bumps I was able to find confirmed that the Mantra has excellent edge hold on ice, but I am reserving judgement on how it does in tighter terrain and if anyone cares I can update later.

    Finished the day up by hitting some kickers in the park and around the hill. To state the blindingly obvious, these are not park skis and I can't imagine why anyone would choose to use them if they wanted to land switch a bunch. That said, the Mantras do offer a nice stable platform that is fairly forgiving of back seat landings mounted +1.

    One thing I would mention is that once or twice during the day I did get something like the weird hookiness singlecross described in his review. I attributed the behavior to operator error or something about the factory tune because I couldn't get it to replicate consistently but I'll be keeping an eye on it.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    I remember when I demoed the 102's last year having the exact same twitch feeling you described. Maybe it wasn't just me. However, when I was back-to-backing the 102's with the K108 at this years on-snow demo (boilerplate conditions) I didn't get that feeling. PLEASE keep us informed on how it responds to changes in mount point and any detuning you get to. At this point I'm thinking this could be about the ultimate ski around which to build a quiver...for me at least....or possibly the K108....lot's of similarities between them
    To follow up... I agressively detuned the tips back about 4-6" and moved the mount point from -1cm to -.5 cm. Skied all over Revelstoke today and the M102 was great in all conditions. No hookiness in the soft or twitch on the firm groomers. Good float in the open, maneuverable in the trees, and stable in the chop. This ski is awesome.

    I skied my Enforcer 110 all day the day before in similar conditions and for me, the M102 is a better ski in every way. Carves harder, more stable and damp, just as maneuverable, and floats just as well.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlecross View Post
    I skied my Enforcer 110 all day the day before in similar conditions and for me, the M102 is a better ski in every way. Carves harder, more stable and damp, just as maneuverable, and floats just as well.
    hell of an endorsement

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Man Iím going to end up buying it. Then Iíll do the enforcer 110, M102, mindbender 99 shootout. Donations appreciated
    Any word on the comparisons or too soon?

    I've narrowed it down to the Mantra 102 or Mindbender 99 Ti, both in 177 - looking for a ski to take all over the mtn. Have my fat pow ski (Volkl 2s) at 120+ waist and my old 2008 Fischer Cold Heats at 82. Lots of good things about both the Mantra102 and MB here - anything to tip the scales? Heard hard snow - Mantras and soft snow - MB... If it's not a pow day, I'm either skiing with the groms on blues (till they get older) or an annual trip to the Rockies. Want something that's solid on groomers but still good to explore with. Don't care about performance in deep pow as much.

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by vav925 View Post
    Any word on the comparisons or too soon?

    I've narrowed it down to the Mantra 102 or Mindbender 99 Ti, both in 177 - looking for a ski to take all over the mtn. Have my fat pow ski (Volkl 2s) at 120+ waist and my old 2008 Fischer Cold Heats at 82. Lots of good things about both the Mantra102 and MB here - anything to tip the scales? Heard hard snow - Mantras and soft snow - MB... If it's not a pow day, I'm either skiing with the groms on blues (till they get older) or an annual trip to the Rockies. Want something that's solid on groomers but still good to explore with. Don't care about performance in deep pow as much.
    Check Blister. They reviewed the M102 and the Mindbender 99Ti.

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