Mantra 102 - where to mount it?

**vav925** · 03-13-2020, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by SnowCreekChad

Check Blister. They reviewed the M102 and the Mindbender 99Ti.

Thanks, checked it out. Wondering if anyone here has skied both ?

**Bandit Man** · 03-13-2020, 03:11 PM

My 184 99Ti’s are supposed to arrive by Thursday. Hoping lifts stay open for me to get out on them next weekend. I’ll be able to give a comparison vs the 184 M102 at that point.

**singlecross** · 03-13-2020, 03:45 PM

Beware the Blister review on the M102... they have everything right regarding the ski IMHO, but the review seems to get hung up in the reviewer's internal debate and semantics of the word "quick" and they end up making the M102 seem more demanding than it is. Myself, and others here, do not find it to be demanding. It likes to be driven, and it performs, but it is quite forgiving and maneuverable. I just spent a week on mine at Revelstoke, which was a great place to really check them out with the diversity of terrain and differing climate from top to bottom of that particular mountain... open bowls with wind effected powder up top, trees with lighter snow in the middle, good firm refrozen groomers in the middle, and slush at the bottom. The Mantra 102 never really felt out of place anywhere for me. Great directional travel ski! Is it playful, no. Does it rip, yes.

**klauss** · 03-13-2020, 03:48 PM

I really want a pair but already have bonafides and too many other 108 skis with metal. Was able to convince a buddy to buy a demo set for his new ski though which helps my urge somewhat

**vav925** · 03-13-2020, 04:49 PM

Thanks Singlecross - yeah, it was hard to get a sense from just the Blisters reviews of each. Leaning more towards the Mantras at this point, though they are ~$85 USD more on Corbett's - trying to decide if the difference between the two skis is worth that...should decide now before one gets sold out...

**kootenayskier** · 03-14-2020, 07:41 AM

After reading this thread I almost broke down and bought the single pair of 184 M102s being discounted on the wall at my local shop, but couldn’t pass up a killer deal on a pair of mint used 184 M4s. I’ve been on the lightweight carbon DPS bandwagon for a few years now, and am enjoying rediscovering the joys of damp metal skis.

**gaijin** · 03-15-2020, 03:11 AM

M4s? or M5s?

**meter-man** · 05-12-2020, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by roQer

First day on a Mantra 102 in 184. All kinds of snow from blank ice to powder. Those are my impressions:

1) It’s an excellent ski but it has in this length for me definitely a lower top end than OG Cochise in 193, OG Bodacious in 186, OG metal Katana in 191, Kästle BMX 105 HP in 189 and Faction Dictator 4.0 in 192, all of them I still own or recently owned.
2) Thus it‘s not some ballistic missile as Blister and some other reports suggest. In fact it’s very pivoty and quite easy to ski. Reminds me pretty much of my Rustler 11 in terms of accessibility. As with OG metal Katana and OG Cochise any turn shape is possible but with the Mantra you get more energy from the turn than from those both.
3) If you’re used to more centered mounts go at least 1 or 2 cm forward. The tail is softer than expected and provides not much support, much less than OG Bodacious (with a very similar mount point) or OG metal Katana. The ski responds very well to a more centered stance and I assume going +2 would make it better balanced.
4) If you’re a strong skier don’t listen to Blister and downsize if between the sizes. I really wish I had gone 191 instead of 184. Maybe it gets better if I remount the binding at +1.5 or +2.

In summary: nice but not a variable conditions charger revelation which for I hoped. Gonna keep my OG metal Katanas as there is still no replacement in sight.

Originally Posted by bry

I'm 188 cm and 80kg... on the 191s.

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Originally Posted by Bandit Man

After a quick 2-hour jaunt on the 184 this past weekend, I saw no need to deviate from the suggested mount point, however, that is a very limited sample size. Also, other than when I was in tight trees, I thought I could size up.

Weird how the ski hand flexes quite stiff, but doesn’t ski as stiff as one would think, at least IMO.

Originally Posted by DumbIdeasOnly

Me 6 ft, 220. My current favorite ski in the quiver is a 189 ON3P BG and I am searching for a hard snow ski I like as much.

Had my first day on the 191 mounted +1 from recommended with Pivot 14s this past weekend on typically awful east coast snow. Short story - the Mantras delivered and I'm super happy with the purchase. +1 doesn't cause the ski to explode and could help if you're both bad at landing airs and too old to heal quickly if you fuck up. 191 is very manageable if you're tall and sort of fat.

Started the day off with some fairly open groomers to see if I could find the speed limit. After several laps it became clear to me that the speed limit on groomers is faster than I'm willing to ski if there could be other people in front of me. Vertical just disappeared. The ski is happiest at speed, but once it's at speed they're surprisingly easy to work into a variety of turn shapes and styles. Overall, the groomer performance is as good as any all mountain ski I've ever used and better than most. For example, the Mantras did not feel appreciably worse than (at least my current memory of) a Kastle MX88 which is a much more one dimensional tool.

I started looking for bumps to see how the Mantra would handle them due to the mass and length. I wasn't able to find any tight, fall line bumps. The icy, scraped off wide bumps I was able to find confirmed that the Mantra has excellent edge hold on ice, but I am reserving judgement on how it does in tighter terrain and if anyone cares I can update later.

Finished the day up by hitting some kickers in the park and around the hill. To state the blindingly obvious, these are not park skis and I can't imagine why anyone would choose to use them if they wanted to land switch a bunch. That said, the Mantras do offer a nice stable platform that is fairly forgiving of back seat landings mounted +1.

One thing I would mention is that once or twice during the day I did get something like the weird hookiness singlecross described in his review. I attributed the behavior to operator error or something about the factory tune because I couldn't get it to replicate consistently but I'll be keeping an eye on it.

Thanks for the help on sizing folks. I'm 182cm, 88kg (6', ~195#) - 184 looked short in the shop, but 191s for metal layup hard snow skis sounded big. Looking to replace 188 PBJs. Happy on 190 Bibbys, generally don't like anything below 185 - usually my sweet spot is 187-192. Will probably mount +1. My local shop has em for $400. Guess it's early Christmas!

Now the really difficult question - what color P18s????

**gaijin** · 05-12-2020, 03:33 PM

Gold.

**Bandit Man** · 05-12-2020, 04:36 PM

My 184’s finally arrived yesterday. IF Timberline re-opens, I might actually get them on snow!! (I know, big IF there).

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**SeatownSlackey** · 08-10-2020, 02:59 PM

subscribing.

cant wait to get my 191s on snow

**BC.** · 08-11-2020, 01:53 PM

I’m a Katana guy....but the Mantra102 sounds nice for “icy” days...haha

**kid-kapow** · 09-01-2020, 07:32 AM

I've seen the Mantra V-Werks being mentioned several times in this thread, but only in passing. Since several mags in this thread have experience with the skis I am currently contemplating, I thought I should give this thread a go too - not only the touring ski in the alps thread.

I am currently pondering if I should get me a set of kendo 88s, m5s or m102s, or should keep my wren96ti + mantra v werks combo.

More specifically, I am contemplating if remounting the mvws at +1 or +2 would make that ski be a bit more what I want it to be. I find the tips to want to lift a bit too much at high speeds on hard surfaces when being driven from a more centered stance. I am not terribly concerned with loosing soft snow ability as the shovels are plenty wide and the flex pattern and rocker profile should do soft snow just fine. The skis will see a fair bit of resort use, and again - I am not concerned about how they tour at all. Mounted with Vipecs.

Also, any feedback on mounting either k88s, m5s or m102s at +1 or +2 would be most welcome too.

The main idea is to have a narrower set of skis that can handle speed well and that I can work on my going mach looney skills on, but that doesn't need to be driven like crazy at all times. Wren96tis are fun, but I am uncertain if their rocker profile and flex pattern is what I am looking for. I also tried Rustler 10s, but found them to prefer shorter turns, and Fischer Ranger 102frs, but was not a fan of their flex pattern or tune. I am a huge fan of BMT90s, BMT122s and Katana V Werks, so that is why I am contemplating k88s, m5s and m102s - all in the 177 length.

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback!

and yes, obviously I am overthinking this

**stradissimo** · 09-01-2020, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by kid-kapow

the mvws. I find the tips to want to lift a bit too much at high speeds on hard surfaces when being driven from a more centered stance.

What does this mean? Are you turning or straight lining? Are you getting bounced?
If it’s in a turn, what part of the turn?
What does “lift” mean? Literally up, like a hovercraft? Or engaging the snow and pulling across your line?

**kid-kapow** · 09-01-2020, 09:11 AM

lift as in lift

It was this weird sensation that air got caught under the shovels that made the shovels (and thus the rest of thhe ski would follow) be forced upwards aka lift aka not stay on the ground. Not flap, not bounce, but that the shovels wanted to get airborne from a consistent pressure from under the shovels. It only happened once, doing big arcs at fairly high speed on a groomer. I see no other situations where it could happen, other than on hard groomers.

It was probably exarcerbated/caused by improper technique and being a bit too back seat (though it felt like I was standing centered / driving the skis from a centered stance just fine) and that the skis are quite light. It was not a big deal during the parts of the run where I experienced it, but it would have been unwanted at mach looney going down a steep groomer / dh course. It was just quite weird, and not something I can remember have happen to me on other skis.

Putting more pressure on the tips is the obvious "solution" to the issue, but where I was thinking that perhaps a more centered mount would make it disappear too while also enable a more centered riding position - i dunno, hence the question.

So no, not as in catching / making the skis turn. I have not found them / MVWs to be overly turny.

and re the mount question; the premise of that question is not "how to prevent lift if you have experienced it / what can I do to not experience it again" but straight up "what are your experiences from a more centered mount".

tahnks for chiming in and sorry to be vague

**stradissimo** · 09-01-2020, 11:01 AM

Kid,
Interesting description. I don’t think I’ve ever felt that on skis.

I have felt it on a motorcycle. I was roadracing a yzf-r1 that was set up for someone 15kg heavier than me. At about 160mph (256 km/h) the air would pack up under the radiator and lift the front tire off the contact patch enough to cause a headshake.

In your case, it seems like you felt the ski flex more longitudinally than you expected. Moving the binding forward would shorten the “spring” of the front of the ski and make it stiffer. It might make enough difference to kill the lift. But in general, you’ll lose stability with a forward mount, so you will have to balance your goals for a “mach looney“ ski. Does the ski have stability to spare?

I have some Blizzard fis GS skis for mach-looney days, but I think I’m getting too old for that because I didn’t even ski them once last year.

**YoEddy** · 09-01-2020, 07:56 PM

Kid,

Without knowing anything else about you take this for what it's worth (nada).

Maybe think about how ski length plays into this equation? "Mach loony" and 177cm are incongruous unless you weigh a scant 100 pounds. It's all relative of course because one can hit a state of M-L on any ski, and any speed depending on the circumstances. However, consider that SL skis are 165, and a reasonable length GS for a U16 athlete is a 185cm. If your typical skiing speed is more towards the GS range, or higher, then a 177cm is going to be limiting regardless of the plank you're on.

Additionally, the M102 and M5 are both much more adept at speed than the VW version. Not that the VW is all that lacking mind you - it's a wonderfully fantastic ski for it's intended purpose, but it's primary design goal was to be lightweight while retaining as much of the desirable characteristics as possible. The MVW has less metal than the M102 and M5, and metal is a key ingredient when it comes to stability at speed (The MVW has a titanal band versus the full frame layer in the M102 and M5). In general more metal = more loony.

Now ... let's start talking about where we're going to mount that new 191cm Katana! From what I've seen so far it's basically a wider version of the M102, which is a very good start.

**smooth operator** · 09-02-2020, 02:25 AM

Sounds like you want the real (M5) Mantra, bonafide or sth similar, not the VW Mantra.

**kid-kapow** · 09-02-2020, 02:51 AM

hehe, yeah - that might very well be mr smooth

The MVW's quiver role is as a 50/50 ski. I am def not expecting it to ski like a 2000gr+ two sheets of metal ski. The sensation described above was just so odd though, so I thougth a remount could make them a bit better. To be fair, when I skied the excact same spot/speed on BMT90s it kinda felt like I had no skis on - their meager weight just disappeared. So for sure. MVWs pack more stability and big arc prowess than their weigth suggests. I do not really see any other ski that fit the intended role any better though, so I guess I should just give them a bit more time.

Stradissimo and YoEddy - thanks for chiming in, much appreciated.

**yeahman** · 09-02-2020, 11:46 AM

If anybody has a pair of M102s in 177 that you might want to trade for a pair of M5s, shoot me a pm.

**Djongo Unchained** · 09-02-2020, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by kid-kapow

I've seen the Mantra V-Werks being mentioned several times in this thread, but only in passing. Since several mags in this thread have experience with the skis I am currently contemplating, I thought I should give this thread a go too - not only the touring ski in the alps thread.

I am currently pondering if I should get me a set of kendo 88s, m5s or m102s, or should keep my wren96ti + mantra v werks combo.

More specifically, I am contemplating if remounting the mvws at +1 or +2 would make that ski be a bit more what I want it to be. I find the tips to want to lift a bit too much at high speeds on hard surfaces when being driven from a more centered stance. I am not terribly concerned with loosing soft snow ability as the shovels are plenty wide and the flex pattern and rocker profile should do soft snow just fine. The skis will see a fair bit of resort use, and again - I am not concerned about how they tour at all. Mounted with Vipecs.

Also, any feedback on mounting either k88s, m5s or m102s at +1 or +2 would be most welcome too.

The main idea is to have a narrower set of skis that can handle speed well and that I can work on my going mach looney skills on, but that doesn't need to be driven like crazy at all times. Wren96tis are fun, but I am uncertain if their rocker profile and flex pattern is what I am looking for. I also tried Rustler 10s, but found them to prefer shorter turns, and Fischer Ranger 102frs, but was not a fan of their flex pattern or tune. I am a huge fan of BMT90s, BMT122s and Katana V Werks, so that is why I am contemplating k88s, m5s and m102s - all in the 177 length.

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback!

and yes, obviously I am overthinking this

KK - this speaks volumes.

I'm assuming mach looney isn't your normal Modus Operandi?

A few tips, humbly...

Going fast requires you to be in a forward stance. Big G forces ask for a high level of preparedness and fast twitch response.

Lean into it. Hence the longer ski advice. They get shorter after about 45-55 mph.

Also, for me, tip rocker is a detriment at speed. Full camber for this game.

Skiing really fast is extra risky. For everyone. Ya gotta be hyper aware. Gimbal-headed.

Accidents happen in a blink, people don't care to be buzzed, carnage level is usually severe, chronic pain potential.

So get off your arches and put the hammer down.

**kid-kapow** · 09-02-2020, 02:52 PM

I think you read a bit to much into those somewhat dramatically highlighted parts.

Thanks for the input though - much appreciated.

MVWs has been mentioned in touring ski thread and this thread by people who seem to have a fair bit of time on them. That is why I posted in those two threads, not bacause I am expecting MVWs to ski like Mantra102s, let alone a world cup worthy piste shredder. I kinda was expecting the shovels/ski to want to stay on the ground at speed without me having to drive the shit out of the shovels - the shovels are not that flimsy. My mistake I guess, though fixing my shit technique is for sure the most obvious place to start.

As for speed / mach looney, no - trying to go fast as I can is very much what I aim to do whenever I ski. My favorite run at one of my home resorts is the old world cup downhill course. The most scary part of that run is not the speed or steepness, but encountering people who really shouldn't be on the course when going over semi-blind roll overs at high speeds. Again, I am no ex-racer with impeccable technique so my room for improvement is fairly substantial

Perhaps somebody who have tried MVWs mounted at +1 or +2 will chime in ( I do not know if that is as common as going +2-3 or Katana VWs), or if not, perhaps I should just give it a go

Or perhaps I should move on and try some other ski. I dunno - right now I am leaning toward the second option.

You see, I just woke up on Sunday with this crazy urge to try m5s and Mantra102s and I am trying to not cave in

Thanks again

**singlecross** · 09-02-2020, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by kid-kapow

As for speed / mach looney, no - trying to go fast as I can is very much what I aim to do whenever I ski. My favorite run at one of my home resorts is the old world cup downhill course. The most scary part of that run is not the speed or steepness, but encountering people who really shouldn't be on the course when going over semi-blind roll overs at high speeds. Again, I am no ex-racer with impeccable technique so my room for improvement is fairly substantial

This sounds like an accident waiting to happen, especially on Mantra VWerks mounted +2 to compensate for skiing “centered stance” ( i.e. backseat) Good luck.

**Djongo Unchained** · 09-02-2020, 09:03 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to YELL.

Word, No negatives intended it just seems like a good place to start. The forward thing, I mean.

Fucking people in the way. We're skiing here!

I am exceptionally verbal with other skiers in regards to their proximity to me.
'Cuz there ain't no accountin' for folks.

**kid-kapow** · 09-03-2020, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by singlecross

This sounds like an accident waiting to happen, especially on Mantra VWerks mounted +2 to compensate for skiing “centered stance” ( i.e. backseat) Good luck.

I've never skied that run on MVWs and centered does not equal backseat. Still, you are probably right wrt using MVWs on that specific run - it is probably not the best of ideas. And since the main point of that quiver slot is going down that run as fast as I can - or be very playful (MVWs are neither nor imho), it should probably not be filled by MVWs - fair point indeed. Oh well

I can't recall what ski I used down that run the times I've managed to ski it the fastest, but it was not a touring ski (or anything that can be mistaken as a touring ski). But it was probably something with an inordinate amount of front rocker aka a wren88s or wren 108s.

Djongo - no worries