Mantra 102 - where to mount it?

[1000-oaks]

Do these have any pop at the end of a loaded carve, or did you have to decide to end the turn "whenever" yourself (with no pop at all) like a Bonafide?

[SeatownSlackey]

On the 191 @230lbs and I definitely get a strong rebound and push into the next turn when loaded up. Could see someone much lighter not getting that same feedback. Never been on a bonafide but if it’s like an og Cochise then no


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[1000-oaks]

^ Cool, awesome.

[Bandit Man]

I skied the 184 during a demo day on a small icy hill, which is incredibly difficult to compare to my 191 on a big hill. So not really worth the comparison, although if I had to say something I'd say it's impossible to miss the sweet spot on the 184 at moderate speeds.

Other than the icy part, you kind of outlined my dilemma. At my small local hill, the 184 is perfect. Not a lot of room to let it run, but rather lots of techie mini golf lines and frequent soft crud and variable conditions. However, when I get to a bigger mountain, the 184 feels too small.

I did buy a 191 K108 at the end of the season but have yet to ski it. Maybe I’ll just stick with the 184 M102 and take the longer K108 when I travel.


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[volklpowdermaniac]

Other than the icy part, you kind of outlined my dilemma. At my small local hill, the 184 is perfect. Not a lot of room to let it run, but rather lots of techie mini golf lines and frequent soft crud and variable conditions. However, when I get to a bigger mountain, the 184 feels too small.

I did buy a 191 K108 at the end of the season but have yet to ski it. Maybe I’ll just stick with the 184 M102 and take the longer K108 when I travel.


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bandit how tall/weight are you?

[Bandit Man]

bandit how tall/weight are you?

5’ 8” and currently 200-lbs. Been told that I’m built like a fire hydrant. My wife wishes that fire hydrant weighed 10-15 lbs less than it does.

[Bandit Man]

My first world problem is that my kid absconded the 184 M102’s. I put Warden 13 demos on most of my “fleet” since I’m a 25.5 and he’s a 27.5. Now we can share skis. I bought him a 186 Enforcer 104 Free, which he used to love, but after one run on the M102, he exclaimed “you are never getting these back!” So, I found another pair of 184 M102’s for me. Those have yet to be mounted. Hence the “maybe I should be on a 191 M102?” Inquiry.

I’m fairly certain I could handle them just fine. They might make Stevens Pass feel even smaller than it already does, though. In all honesty, the M102 is probably a more practical daily driver than the K108. However the 600” season in 20-21 created an exception to that thinking.

[SnakeMagnet]

Run your K108's before you mount for sure. The lengths should feel quite similar, so if one ends up feeling 'for big lines' it's likely the other will as well.

[volklpowdermaniac]

5’ 8” and currently 200-lbs. Been told that I’m built like a fire hydrant. My wife wishes that fire hydrant weighed 10-15 lbs less than it does.

lol so pretty much my exact stats, although sometimes i tell people im 5/9". but they know. they know.

[kid-kapow]

In a somewhat surprising turn of events I decided to mount mine back from 1.3 to closer to center, moving from Pivots (going on other skis) to STH2s. I am unsure if I make it all the way back to the line, or have to go +5mm. The balance of these things in the air will never be anything close to balanced, so figured I might as well try to move a bit back from the soft zone in the shovels. I'm on 177s though, not the manly man sizes you guys are discussing



A similar softer shovel zone is also what made me prefer BMT90s over Mantra V Werks. The former has a more uniform flex, whereas that softer spot in MVWs makes that ski too soft snow specific for me - that is, if you press on the shovels you end up with more rocker, not more support. Still, they are killer soft snow skis, but that is not why I bought them. I do love BMT90s though - the BMT line is just so damned good, even if they got a significant price hike this year ( or shops at least, unsure for consumers).

[YoEddy]

... At my small local hill, the 184 is perfect. Not a lot of room to let it run, but rather lots of techie mini golf lines and frequent soft crud and variable conditions. However, when I get to a bigger mountain, the 184 feels too small.

I did buy a 191 K108 at the end of the season but have yet to ski it. Maybe I’ll just stick with the 184 M102 and take the longer K108 when I travel.

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Heh, I also have a 191 K108, but actually sold my 191 M102 because I thought it was too much of an overlap, and bought a 191 M6 to round out the crustier side of snow conditions. The K108 is 'the same' but definitely better in deeper snow (duh), and the M6 is definitely better on harder snow (duh), but the M102 seemed to me to be best at everything in between. The perfect all season tire if there is such a thing.

[phatty]

Heh, I also have a 191 K108, but actually sold my 191 M102 because I thought it was too much of an overlap, and bought a 191 M6 to round out the crustier side of snow conditions. The K108 is 'the same' but definitely better in deeper snow (duh), and the M6 is definitely better on harder snow (duh), but the M102 seemed to me to be best at everything in between. The perfect all season tire if there is such a thing.

I don't have the K108 (I'm an MFree 108 fanboi), but am seriously looking at the M6 to fill the groomer day slot. Had been looking at M102, but the width doesn't seem like there's enough gap.

[singlecross]

FWIW, there are good deals on M5 Mantras at various shops.

I still very much like my M102 mostly for its versatility to handle a broad range of conditions. It’s a great resort oriented travel ski. Mine are still mounted -1cm to reduce the speed wobble when arcing groomers at speed.

I did pick up a Fischer Ranger 107ti and have been very impressed with it. Don’t hear much about the Fischer Rangers other than the 102FR, which I would love to try. The 107ti is a stronger carving ski than the M102 and I’ll be spending more time on it in softer and variable snow to see if it will unseat the M102 as my go to ski.

[VON]

Still so unclear to me whether the 191 Mantra 102 is a bruiser or not.
I'm coming from the 189 BMX 105HP which is also a pretty hefty ski, and trying to understand how much more or less maneuverable the 191 M102's will be relative to the BMX's.
Does anyone have time on both of these skis by any chance?

[SeatownSlackey]

I’ll say this about the 191. It will more than satisfy your. Need to have a ski that will crush firm groomers. In fact it will make yoou want to attack and assault them. I don’t have any desire to have anything skinnier because they are that good on suboptimal frontside conditions.


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[bry]

I agree...last time I had them out on firm, I thought well I can't imagine anything doing better than these.

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[gaijin]

The 184 on a low angle runout. But still. I never imagined my carving ski would be 102 underfoot. Makes me super curious about that Fischer 107ti mentioned above.

Can you solve this battle for us, KC? Paging KC to further expand his quiver for a review for us.

[Bandit Man]

Got an inquiry recently about how the 191 M102 behaves overall and in tight quarters. I’ve only skied the 184 but am kicking around picking up a 191.

@bry and @SeatownSlackey - you guys both ski and dig the 191 length if I’m not mistaken. Either of you able to comment and share your experience with the collective?


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[VON]

+1 to Banditman's Q
I'm very interested in the 191's

Seems clear that the M102 is heavy, damp, stable, and a great combo of edge-hold plus release-ability on trail, windbuff, and chalk. Also clearly good for skiing fast through choppy snow in more open terrain.

However, where I ski (mainly Alta/Bird), most of my favorite runs have tight and bumpy entrances. The weight and extremely limited rocker profile of the M102 make it hard to believe this ski can be as maneuverable, pivoty, and user-friendly as I'm hoping it can be in tighter spaces, despite the magic of multi-radius sidecut.

For the record, my history and preference is for heavier, stiffer, damper skis (2017 BMX 105HP in 189cm and 2017 Bonafide in 187cm are some of my all-time favorite skis), so I mean "maneuverable" and "pivoty" relatively speaking to other skis on this side of the spectrum.

Sounds like the party line is that "it doesn't look like it has a pivoty nature, but skiing is believing."
I have my doubts, but I very much want to be convinced, and very much appreciate everyone's input here.

PS for reference I'm 6'4 185lbs.

[kc_7777]

……where I ski (mainly Alta/Bird), most of my favorite runs have tight and bumpy entrances. The weight and extremely limited rocker profile of the M102 make it hard to believe this ski can be as maneuverable, pivoty, and user-friendly as I'm hoping it can be in tighter spaces, despite the magic of multi-radius sidecut.

Sounds like the party line is that "it doesn't look like it has a pivoty nature, but skiing is believing."
I have my doubts, but I very much want to be convinced,.

I bought the party line and bought the 2020 M102.

A great ski for groomers (you will hit speeds you’ve never hit before), and a great ski in choppy snow in open terrain.

Not as fun (for me) in really tight, steep spots. If I skied groomers like Gaijin's pic above then owning one of these is a no-brainer.

Some alpine entrances on Blackcomb made me uneasy when on the M102….I didn’t find it maneuverable, pivoty or user friendly enough. Until I got into the open. Then I flew.

I sold the M102 at $100CDN loss. Worth it to try for me.

If I only skied open terrain I would own an M102 or K108.

And so maybe I should still own one, and have it for a “quiver” ski. But I ski with a bunch of good skiers, and we’re always seeking out tight, steep spots at least a few times a day. And on the M102 I was always like “oh fuck”….until we got out of the tight and into the steep, more open areas. Steep and chalky and open the M102 was epic.

FWIW….I mounted my M102s forward at +0.5cm in front of the front mark ….so +2.5cm from back rec line. That likely caused some tail release issues for me. Doing it again I would mount at +1cm front the back line (-1.5cm from where I mounted). Funny….i also just realized I never skied my M102s at Whistler…always Blackcomb. Whistler is more open. Or maybe at ~165 lbs I just like less burly skis?

Apparently I’m still an idiot as I’m reading the K108 thread and thinking hmm? Or maybe the new Cochise 106..? Haha

[gaijin]

For the record, my history and preference is for heavier, stiffer, damper skis (2017 BMX 105HP in 189cm and 2017 Bonafide in 187cm are some of my all-time favorite skis), so I mean "maneuverable" and "pivoty" relatively speaking to other skis on this side of the spectrum.

I’d love to hear more about M102 vs BMX, Bonafide, etc.

I was also shocked to read Bandit Man’s comment about the MFree 108 being comparable to his Billy Goat in the trees in the Dynastar thread.

The M102 isn’t my tree ski, but when it does enter the trees it’s a bit of attention and planning (in powder.) Nowhere near how I would expect a Billy Goat to ski.

I don’t need the carveability of the M102 as much as I’d like the pivotability of something close to a BG. Hmmm

[bry]

Hiya I am 44, 6'2", 176lbs. this morning.

Shallow rocker lines and modest camber make them feel pretty flat under foot to me and the disconnected titanal also helps along the flex and feel, I think.

I find them super pivoty and loose in the tips/tails relative to the other similar chargy skis I've skied the past few seasons: 192 LP105s, 189 Wren 108tis, 193 Husumes, gen 2 193 Corvus, gen 2 192 Cochise, 194 Sender Squads, 192 Cochise 106, 192 Stormrider 95s, 188 Commander 108s both gens.

Of all, only the 191 Katana 108s feel the same, and the OG 193 Cochise a level up perhaps but some strikingly similar pivot/swing weight feelings in places between K108 and OG Cochise, which Bandit has pointed out.

These 191 M102s are the shit. But while the tips/tails are loose the swing weight isn't immaterial...the 191s are about 2350g/ski, which is the lightest of the skis listed by prob 100g/ski and one of the lightest of all my skis.

These feel easy peasy enough to me to be a daily driver to ski the whole mountain. About, 100g lighter/ski than the BMX 105HPs as well. Haven't skied them yet but will get some side by side pics going later.

Many (most?) of my fave lines have some sketchy AF bumped and/or rocky entrances, and I've hit up trees in these mini golfing on storm days when I could've been on other skis and these were fine, just a great pair of work boots they feel like so to speak, but clown shoes they are not. Sometimes I ski the Pro Riders all morning and these feel like toys in the afternoon.

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[yeahman]

Mounted mine on the line and I have no issues in tight spaces. Quick, pivots well, no tail release problems. Great skis for me in all conditions except deep pow.

[SeatownSlackey]

6'1" 235 on 191s mounted on the rearmost line. As Bry's post sums up well, its all relative. These aren't punishing skis like some of the referenced skis. Are they as loose as a much more rockered ski? Of course not but here's an anecdote that hopefully gives some good color.

I skied the 190 Qlabs for several seasons as the primary no new snow slot in the rotation. Still have them and love them. They liked to go fast, carved well on frontside runs and groomers, had the metal and mass to ski through chunder and shit snow when needed. Sometimes would spin a lap or two out the high T @ alpy which is rife with steep narrow chokes to get to the next more open section. The Qlab had a very stout and wide tail. There was one instance where I found myself in 6" of heavyish new on a firm base and unbeknownst to me, a few folks had already tagged the only way in to a line that is no fall territory and less than a ski wide for the first 80 feet or so. I ended up bailing and booting out because all I could envision was that tail catching too much and gravity yanking me over headfirst. Strait lining didn't work either as I didn't trust the tail to not engage too much on a mandatory power slide once clear of the rocks on either side. I would have had 100% faith and confidence in the m102 in that same tight scenario despite measuring >3cm longer than the sallys. Deeper snow and tight trees, I'm going to be on billygoats/protests and not the 102 but there is something to the multiple radius magic. Locked or loose, you decide and it has the backbone and energy to make it fun.

[VON]

Y'all are getting me into some trouble. Trigger pulled on the 191's. Will report back!